Die With Zero - Book

[Luvtoride]

There's a middle ground. I don't want to chance dying with zero, either, and I really want to be able to fund LTC if I need it. But...last month I blew some $$ to take my son, DIL and the 3 grandchildren (10, 7 and 4) to Chicago. Round trip flight from Des Moines, airline lounge access (I have a credit card with that perk), Hilton O'Hare, adjoining rooms facing the airport across the street, the Children's Museum, the subway, Uber (when the weather was too harsh to find the subway station and we were tired) and some good meals. We had a blast. We even put together a Shutterfly book.

I haven't tallied the total cost and probably won't. Who cares? It was paid for from funds I'm withdrawing at a sustainable rate from my investments. The point of "Die with Zero" is that that's a lot more fun than leaving a few more $$ to your kids when they're in their 60s or older and are empty-nesters.

Athena, you got it EXACTLY! That's our approach now (and for a while) too! I heard that the average Inheritance passes to heirs when they are in their 60's as you've mentioned. That age and time in their lives (if they've done the right things) is NOT when a family needs your assets via inheritance.

 

[bloom2708]

On page 1 you insert your "certain death date". The rest is easy.

I am a fan of some of the details, but, but I hope my death date is long out there and unknown to me.

 

[sengsational]

Perkins’ message is NOT to literally die with zero dollars. That’s just a hook from some marketer.

Many comments about the book presume that you need to time it perfectly, so the check to the undertaker bounces, but that's not what the book is about at all.

The idea is, if you have enough to be worried that you'll be leaving a lot on the table when you go, you can afford to insure to the point where you won't run out, even if "bad things" happen. I wasn't a big fan of life annuities when I read the book because they were paying peanuts. But now maybe they're not such a bad deal.

The points you make about doing what you're physically capable of when you're young enough...getting those experiences and memories...that was a big take-away for me. And the other was how arbitrary the point of death is to give money to your kids. By then, they don't need it. If you're lucky enough to have kids that would go to the ends of the earth to help their parents, why not just give it to them when they're young enough for it to make a difference to their lives. And although there are no guarantees, if something unexpected and bad happens, the kids will be there to help. Not a legal contract like a life annuity, but if they've invested the gifts you've given them, they probably wouldn't mind gifting some of it back.

 

[athena53]

<snip> And the other [point] was how arbitrary the point of death is to give money to your kids. By then, they don't need it. If you're lucky enough to have kids that would go to the ends of the earth to help their parents, why not just give it to them when they're young enough for it to make a difference to their lives. And although there are no guarantees, if something unexpected and bad happens, the kids will be there to help.

I wouldn't leave my son and daughter-in-law in that position even though they'd gladly help- or even take me in if it came to that. To the extent I'm lucid enough to make these decisions, I don't want them to have to decide whether Mom should go into a place with an indoor swimming pool, shuttles to appointments and Happy Hours once a week or whether they should take me in even though I'm senile and incontinent. I'd rather choose and leave them whatever is left over.

Dad died in 2021 (Mom had died 5 years earlier) and left over $1 million after 18 months in LTC- still a respectable sum even split with my 4 siblings. I'm donating it and putting it into 529s for the grandchildren over a 10-year period. I was just thinking about how I would have KILLED to spend a year studying abroad in Europe in college (my French was quite decent) but didn't dare ask since they were putting all 5 of us through college. I am SO grateful for the lessons I learned from them about LBYM and for the education they provided...but now I'm thinking a year abroad would have been nice...

 

[skyking1]

send a proxy grandchild if they are so inclined.

 

[FIRE-Traveler]

ERE, I had the same thoughts about 'nothing new', and after reading it there really was not much new... maybe a spin on an existing idea or two. But reading it strengthened the argument and generated momentum in the direction of gaining life experiences. The default is to keep doing the same thing, and when you have a stash and only so many years, it's easy to keep doing your standard thing. Getting a little energy from reading the book was a good thing, I think.

While nothing EARTH SHATTERINGLY NEW in DWZ for me, I still love the book and it's basically my new "bible". Heck, even running with the comparison: I think most people reading the Bible daily think "WOW, I learned something totally novel/new!"... but re-read it over and over to reinforce and stay-aligned with principles they want to have permeating their lives and interaction.

Die With Zero is basically a similar thing for me. I was raised VERY frugal (cheap) and saw both parents die with millions of $$ (most given to their church)... while living a life of frustration, anger, arguments (about money), and putting off life-experiences that were "too expensive"... simply because they were unable to rewire their brains from post-Depression scarcity mindset.

While some of their teachings and modeling has helped me become successful, unfortunately a lot of their influence has made it very difficult to have my expenses increase relative to my income.

I still scrimp and save, annoy people around me, frustrate my partner and kids, etc., because I can't change my perceptions of money.

There's a high probability that I'll Die With Millions because I'm not willing to let-go of the mindset I had when I was poor

As I just posted in the "too frugal" thread: Is there anybody out there that was raised / wired like me (SUPER frugal), that then made a lot of money, and was able to rewire their brain, habits, behavior, etc. in a way to reduce stress and increase joy for themselves and those around them?

 

[Koolau]

I still scrimp and save, annoy people around me, frustrate my partner and kids, etc., because I can't change my perceptions of money.

There's a high probability that I'll Die With Millions because I'm not willing to let-go of the mindset I had when I was poor

As I just posted in the "too frugal" thread: Is there anybody out there that was raised / wired like me (SUPER frugal), that then made a lot of money, and was able to rewire their brain, habits, behavior, etc. in a way to reduce stress and increase joy for themselves and those around them?

So far, no. I can't seem to change.

I still look for value. I do spend a lot more, but I expect value and I don't "waste" money (in my own way of thinking.)

 

[SlowlySaving]

I have listened to this book multiple times. Love it! The title is misleading. It's a reminder to live in the now. If you are saving and saving and not spending to have a good time every once in a while, you are doing it wrong. Definitely a must read for FIRE people like myself.

 

[Luvtoride]

I have listened to this book multiple times. Love it! The title is misleading. It's a reminder to live in the now. If you are saving and saving and not spending to have a good time every once in a while, you are doing it wrong. Definitely a must read for FIRE people like myself.

So glad to hear there are others like me that have embraced this philosophy in retirement! I have recommended this book to many friends and family as well as gave copies to my Financial Advisors. All of our FAmily have benefited from the experiences we share through mindful actions of spending time together to make these great memories!

 

[sengsational]

I rarely read a book a second time, but maybe I'll re-request it from the library. I'm planning on a IRMAA max-out income this year and keeping just one year's worth for us.