Discussing finance with family and friends seems fruitless

[Kings over Queens]

This is a great discussion.

I mentioned earlier that my cousin, late 30's, asked me to teach her about stocks and bonds and investing. This was the day after Christmas and based on what I read here I called her yesterday to compliment her on being brave enough to ask for help, or education. Most people don't ask for help across multiple challenges (health, finance, career) and doing so, showing vulnerability, is an act of bravery.

So I called her yesterday to let her ask a few questions and described my philosophy. I think she was surprised to her I don't own any one single stock and I don't trade. "I'm a saver who invests in mutual funds, not a speculator who trades stocks." Slow and steady wins the race. I look to build wealth, not make money (income).

I gave her 1 small actionable bit of advice, which is to have their paychecks deposit to the high interest savings and pay bills directly from that, or transfer money from there to their checking, rather than the other way around. This way they earn interest on day 1.

I'll help them as much as they will let me and for as long as they ask and are engaged in the process.

 

[rembrandt]

Remember, it is a stock market, not a market of stocks. Wayne Rogers said this many times.

 

[Purslane]

This is a great discussion.

I mentioned earlier that my cousin, late 30's, asked me to teach her about stocks and bonds and investing. This was the day after Christmas and based on what I read here I called her yesterday to compliment her on being brave enough to ask for help, or education. Most people don't ask for help across multiple challenges (health, finance, career) and doing so, showing vulnerability, is an act of bravery.

So I called her yesterday to let her ask a few questions and described my philosophy. I think she was surprised to her I don't own any one single stock and I don't trade. "I'm a saver who invests in mutual funds, not a speculator who trades stocks." Slow and steady wins the race. I look to build wealth, not make money (income).

I gave her 1 small actionable bit of advice, which is to have their paychecks deposit to the high interest savings and pay bills directly from that, or transfer money from there to their checking, rather than the other way around. This way they earn interest on day 1.

I'll help them as much as they will let me and for as long as they ask and are engaged in the process.

That's my line. Slow and steady wins the race. Be a turtle, not a rabbit.

 

[RetiredHappy]

To expand on how the "rich" live vs. ordinary folks like us, at the restaurant at our club, we overheard one of our friends asking the food and beverage manager about hiring the head chef to cook breakfast for 5 young girls on the weekend because her granddaughter have friends over. We won't be discussing finance with them.

 

[TheWizard]

To expand on how the "rich" live vs. ordinary folks like us, at the restaurant at our club, we overheard one of our friends asking the food and beverage manager about hiring the head chef to cook breakfast for 5 young girls on the weekend because her granddaughter have friends over. We won't be discussing finance with them.

Well that's odd.
I thought that really wealthy people already had people to take care of routine things like housework, yardwork, and running the kitchen.
That's how it is on the soap opera I watch...

 

[RetiredHappy]

Well that's odd.
I thought that really wealthy people already had people to take care of routine things like housework, yardwork, and running the kitchen.
That's how it is on the soap opera I watch...

I guess they are not that rich then.

 

[rembrandt]

 

[KiwiFI]

I have a few friends in their 50s like myself that I doubt have even started thinking about their retirement or planning for it. I don't get it but everyone is on their own path, that's for certain.

Hence, I don't discuss mine with them. If they want to ask, I'm open, but I doubt they will.

 

[livingalmostlarge]

I talk finances with a lot of people in general. They ask questions. Most glaze over with answers. But I have 1 family friend we talk in depth. Discussing when we are FIRE, we agree same time. When kids are launched to college. He initially wanted a few years earlier but his wife said no. She refused. So I can guess how much they have. We're similar, but different.

They have w2 jobs and clear path to FIRE. We're risk takers and no idea if we are making it there immediately or longer. We make 20% of what they make but live way cheaper than they do. They live on more than we make and pay more in taxes than we make too! So you gotta do what you do.

 

[Flieger]

Well that's odd.
I thought that really wealthy people already had people to take care of routine things like housework, yardwork, and running the kitchen.
That's how it is on the soap opera I watch...

They're probably nice and give the "help" weekends off....

Flieger

 

[Flieger]

Interesting note... I was at my "fun" job at the micro-brewery yesterday and after a couple of HG beers, one of the guys there asked me what my "real" job was and I told him I was retired. He asked how old I am and when I told him 61 but coming up on 62, he said "man, your'e living the dream! I wish I could retire by then and work a few days at this place!" He said he was an engineer and 42 so I asked him what's stopping him.

He asked when I was working again so he could come back and talk to me. We'll see what he does after the beer goggles are removed. I think he will be amazed to learn I am considered a late bloomer in here!

Flieger

 

[surprising]

I'm retired at 51. Everyone I know was amazed when they found out. Not a single person has asked how I was able to do it or asked for advice. I think money is just too taboo a subject for a lot of people.

 

[RetiredHappy]

To expand on how the "rich" live vs. ordinary folks like us, at the restaurant at our club, we overheard one of our friends asking the food and beverage manager about hiring the head chef to cook breakfast for 5 young girls on the weekend because her granddaughter have friends over. We won't be discussing finance with them.

To add to this post, their home here has 10 full bathrooms and while I have never been there, I was asked by the wife for a recommendation of a contractor who had just finished our renovation, as they wanted to renovate one of the bathrooms.

 

[Retch The Grate]

I have a number of friends I talk finance stuff with occasionally. Not digging into the specific details of their numbers, but talking about saving, investing, etc.. But in our case we are all tech people in the Bay Area, so we all make good money and are in an environment where people are expected to earn a lot, save, and invest... Several of them got the broad strokes of my company stock performance windfall this last quarter for intsance.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

I'm retired at 51. Everyone I know was amazed when they found out. Not a single person has asked how I was able to do it or asked for advice. I think money is just too taboo a subject for a lot of people.

You sound like me. glad for you.

 

[Lorenzo]

I'm retired at 51. Everyone I know was amazed when they found out. Not a single person has asked how I was able to do it or asked for advice. I think money is just too taboo a subject for a lot of people.

"Taboo" seems like too a strong word to me. I'd guess some felt it would be impolite to ask about money matters.

 

[Sue J]

You folks here on the forum are the only ones who I can talk to about things like money and finances. I wish DH was interested but I've accepted that he's not going to change.

I've asked him to take a look at a bank account, or an investment, or a credit card website just to be familiar with things and he won't even do that. Just look and ask a question about a transaction. Nope, not going to happen. Don't you want to know why I moved that chunk of money from there to here? Do you see that deposit? Are you curious about what that is? YOU SHOULD BE!

It's frustrating and sad. We are doing so well and he won't even look. Doesn't want to know.

It's just me and my spreadsheets.

 

[Koolau]

None of my friends will speak about it except one. He happily admitted his "guy" said he could retire on $200K a year, and in two seconds I responded well you must have at least $5M. He almost drove off the road he was so shocked I could calculate his nest egg in a few seconds. Then I had to explain the 4% rule, which he never heard of and the basic math behind it. Amazing to me.

That's kinda scary that your friend's "guy" is using the 4% rule but has failed to explain it to his client (your friend). I suppose the "guy" wants to keep it to himself. That way he can continue to pretend it's too complicated. That way your friend will believe he really needs to pay 1% of his assets for the "guy" to w*rk for him. That's unethical and borders on the criminal - well, probably not, but seems like it.

 

[street]

Very hard to do almost impossible to have any real good productive visit. I never talk money, religion or politics it gets nowhere with family and friends.
If some knew what we had it would never be the same friendship after they knew. I way I live I think most think I'm a pauper. They know I retired early, and my feeling is they believe we are just getting by.

 

[Koolau]

"Taboo" seems like too a strong word to me. I'd guess some felt it would be impolite to ask about money matters.

Perhaps it's semantics but I think taboo is an appropriate word. It implies a topic beyond just impolite or even inappropriate. It's more on the order of discussing religion, politics or personal intimacy. You just "don't do it." YMMV

 

[Koolau]

I am talking about living amoungst $100+M and billionaires in our community. People who own multiple homes in the range of $5M to $20M in several states, spending a few months in each home depending on the seasons. We are their poor friends whom they would not feel comfortable discussing finances with.

I bet they throw the best parties.

As a youngster I recall meeting my first millionaire. I recall (maybe age 9 or 10) thinking "He looks just like everyone else." Of course, I did aspire to have a million from an early age. I think it was something my dad instilled in me - I'm not sure why because he never made it to a million though he did well after his business took off.

Just for the halibut, I'd like to meet a Billionaire someday. I know we have our share on Oahu, but they don't hang with me. Enjoy your time with the "rich" folks on Big Island. Thanks for sharing. I'll take my nose off the window now.

 

[rembrandt]

Just don't end up like Gatsby floating dead in the pool.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I bet they throw the best parties.

As a youngster I recall meeting my first millionaire. I recall (maybe age 9 or 10) thinking "He looks just like everyone else." Of course, I did aspire to have a million from an early age. I think it was something my dad instilled in me - I'm not sure why because he never made it to a million though he did well after his business took off.

Just for the halibut, I'd like to meet a Billionaire someday. I know we have our share on Oahu, but they don't hang with me. Enjoy your time with the "rich" folks on Big Island. Thanks for sharing. I'll take my nose off the window now.

Haha. A different set of friends from the ones that I mentioned above about 10 bathrooms. Our friends love to cook and they are mighty fine cooks, they had hired help to pour drinks, take care of us, and also clean up at the end of the night. These were not run in the mill housekeepers. They were professionals.

Another couple whom we did not get invited to for her 50th birthday, they threw a party with friends at their home, followed by fireworks. Our HOA notified us that there would be fireworks at 9pm that night. We learned later that it was for her 50th birthday. During the party, she had 3 changes of clothes. It totally cracked me up.

 

[Koolau]

A friend of mine has a multi-millionaire friend who always throws a 4th of July party. A big name country act always plays and my friend gets invited since he's a neighbor. I think he said Willy Nelson came one year! That would be a decent party.

 

[Lorenzo]

Perhaps it's semantics but I think taboo is an appropriate word. It implies a topic beyond just impolite or even inappropriate. It's more on the order of discussing religion, politics or personal intimacy. You just "don't do it." YMMV

You're probably right--it's semantics. When I wrote that, I was thinking about conversations with my wife, who came from a European country, about how Americans tend to be more uninhibited in their topics of conversation, even with people outside their family--friends, colleagues, and even virtual strangers like might chat at a cocktail party. Within five minutes of meeting a stranger, we Americans (I have been guilty of this) often ask, "What do you do (for a living)?" In some cultures, that strikes people as impolite, brash, overly forward, etc. Not necessarily taboo or off-limits, just not a topic to bring up casually. Granted, in this thread people have raised a number of different situations, ranging from casual conversation with a friend to attempting to sit down with a close relative and have a heart-to-heart, so I do not mean to make a sweeping statement. I do not believe impoliteness or taboo explains why a close family member would not agree to sit down and have a serious discussion about financial matters.