Discussing finance with family and friends seems fruitless

You're probably right--it's semantics. When I wrote that, I was thinking about conversations with my wife, who came from a European country, about how Americans tend to be more uninhibited in their topics of conversation, even with people outside their family--friends, colleagues, and even virtual strangers like might chat at a cocktail party. Within five minutes of meeting a stranger, we Americans (I have been guilty of this) often ask, "What do you do (for a living)?" In some cultures, that strikes people as impolite, brash, overly forward, etc. Not necessarily taboo or off-limits, just not a topic to bring up casually. Granted, in this thread people have raised a number of different situations, ranging from casual conversation with a friend to attempting to sit down with a close relative and have a heart-to-heart, so I do not mean to make a sweeping statement. I do not believe impoliteness or taboo explains why a close family member would not agree to sit down and have a serious discussion about financial matters.
Definitely some cultural differences involved in discussions of financial issues. What I especially notice is the cultural differences in personal space. So, yeah, cultural boundaries should be respected to the extent they are known.
 
You're probably right--it's semantics. When I wrote that, I was thinking about conversations with my wife, who came from a European country, about how Americans tend to be more uninhibited in their topics of conversation, even with people outside their family--friends, colleagues, and even virtual strangers like might chat at a cocktail party. Within five minutes of meeting a stranger, we Americans (I have been guilty of this) often ask, "What do you do (for a living)?" In some cultures, that strikes people as impolite, brash, overly forward, etc. Not necessarily taboo or off-limits, just not a topic to bring up casually. Granted, in this thread people have raised a number of different situations, ranging from casual conversation with a friend to attempting to sit down with a close relative and have a heart-to-heart, so I do not mean to make a sweeping statement. I do not believe impoliteness or taboo explains why a close family member would not agree to sit down and have a serious discussion about financial matters.
A lot of truth to this. Evident in my own family and with friends.

I believe that there is a tendency to confuse openness on financial issues with near complete strangers to bragging in some cultures.
 
Coming late to this thread. Very interesting comments!

I see the ego thing on these forums too. Suppose it is 2009 and I post that "I got out of the market in early 2008 using my XYZ trend following method". There might well be a fair amount of inflamed comments. Bogleheads are especially good at this. I recall one intelligent well known poster on the Bogleheads forum that quit after posting about trend following methods. People get their egos just too involved with investing. I was probably guilty of that in the past but have tried to reform. :blush:

BTW, I did not time the markets in 2008 and went down a lot before recovering. People like to hear about shared (or not shared) bad outcomes. Ha ha.
 
It is simply not something that we do our have ever done.

I believe that much of the reticence is due to cultural issues and backgound as above.

The balance probable attributable to a desire for privacy and MYOB.
 
Just for the halibut, I'd like to meet a Billionaire someday. I know we have our share on Oahu, but they don't hang with me.
The lead investor in my former start-up was a bigtime billionaire. No names mentioned, as he's prominent in the news. Guy is an absolutely insufferable jerk... a pathetic excuse for a human being... always surrounded by cohort of servants and sycophants. Definitely not a role model. I'd tell the younger folks in the company: "If you ever reach that level, please never forget from where you came. Even $10B isn't worth losing one's humanity". But they thought that I was just jealous!
 
The lead investor in my former start-up was a bigtime billionaire. No names mentioned, as he's prominent in the news. Guy is an absolutely insufferable jerk... a pathetic excuse for a human being... always surrounded by cohort of servants and sycophants. Definitely not a role model. I'd tell the younger folks in the company: "If you ever reach that level, please never forget from where you came. Even $10B isn't worth losing one's humanity". But they thought that I was just jealous!
We know a few of those in our community too. Or to put it politely, they are not nice people.
 
We know a few of those in our community too. Or to put it politely, they are not nice people.
I suspect they would be that way even if they had only a fraction of the money. In my observation, big money does not really change who you are. It just amplifies your existing predilection for good or bad and allows you to affect more people.
 
A lot of our friends, mostly upper middle class, still have no clue how they are gonna finance their retirement. My step daughter thinks we are rich because we go on 5-6 vacations a yr. But we are frugal with most everything else. I try to to explain to her that we aren’t close to rich if she considers we have to finance ( in 6 yrs) the next 20-30 yrs of my life and maybe up to 35 yrs of her mothers. So much living for today. I find that pessimistic. I am assume my future self is here in 20 yrs ( 61 soon) even though I might be off base. Friends my age retirement plan is “ working till they die”. I tell them that is a plain old stupid plan. 90% of the time, it’s doesn’t work out like that.
 
A lot of our friends, mostly upper middle class, still have no clue how they are gonna finance their retirement. My step daughter thinks we are rich because we go on 5-6 vacations a yr. But we are frugal with most everything else. I try to to explain to her that we aren’t close to rich if she considers we have to finance ( in 6 yrs) the next 20-30 yrs of my life and maybe up to 35 yrs of her mothers. So much living for today. I find that pessimistic. I am assume my future self is here in 20 yrs ( 61 soon) even though I might be off base. Friends my age retirement plan is “ working till they die”. I tell them that is a plain old stupid plan. 90% of the time, it’s doesn’t work out like that.
These "upper middle class" folks are presumably of some intelligence and foresight. But they make choices that we FIRE-types might regard as inauspicious or speculative. A rift forms, especially if they come to suspect how much money some of us might have... but choose not to spend.

Even so, most people muddle-through, and do OK. I know zero people who were affluent while working, but impoverished in retirement. Even among ones with health disasters or family tragedies. Perhaps this is my ignorance, and these folks' reality is far worse than appearances? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Point being, that profligacy is, by my reckoning, rarely punished. Fate has higher priorities, for which lessons to teach, and to whom.

A good acquaintance just turned 50. He's in software, makes an easy $180K-$200K/year, owns a fancy house, but has only a paltry sum saved or invested. He mistrusts the stock market, holding essentially zero long term, instead dabbling in options-trading. Yet somehow I think that he's going to be OK. He has some cause to look at my own situation, and dub that to be stupid... rather than his own.
 
Sometimes I/we forget, almost 40% of people have zero money in the stock market. Nothing in a Roth and zero in their 401K. So, almost half the people you meet don't want to talk about finance in any way, shape or form.
 
Sometimes I/we forget, almost 40% of people have zero money in the stock market. Nothing in a Roth and zero in their 401K. So, almost half the people you meet don't want to talk about finance in any way, shape or form.
These are most of my neighbors in my middle class neighborhood. I'm one of three retirees on the street and the other two are still working at some kind of job to cover expenses. The others are not saving a dime from what I can see with new BMW's and Range Rovers dotting the driveways.
 
These are most of my neighbors in my middle class neighborhood. I'm one of three retirees on the street and the other two are still working at some kind of job to cover expenses. The others are not saving a dime from what I can see with new BMW's and Range Rovers dotting the driveways.
But how do you know that the new BMWs' and Range Rovers' are not saving a dime? I owned 3 BMWs and a couple of sports coupes but I still managed to save a healthy amount of money. The one thing that you do not know is how much they are really making.
 
But how do you know that the new BMWs' and Range Rovers' are not saving a dime? I owned 3 BMWs and a couple of sports coupes but I still managed to save a healthy amount of money. The one thing that you do not know is how much they are really making.
I do talk with these people and get wind of their lifestyles and jobs. It's pretty easy to figure out through casual conversations and spending habits.
 
I've had a few ok conversations with some of my friends, that I bike with, initiated by me for the most part. I'm the first of the group to retire, and I'm and open book (for the most part), and 3 of the 4 I spoke with clearly have a lot more in their net worth column than I do. And the 4th, is my closest friend in the group, who is pretty frugal (and his wife watches their spending like a hawk, and MIL was an accountant, so I get the feeling he has no input) but he seems to think he's not in so great of shape to retire soon...no reason not to believe him, but he did ask what stocks I'm in, and I directed him to a couple forums/sites that deal with low cost index fund investing.

Didn't talk specific numbers really, but I more wanted to make myself available to them if they think there's any insight I can share on subjects they might be worried about (health insurance, how much is enough, investments, taxes, parents passing and wills/probate/inheritance that I went through twice in the last few years). I'm sure they all spend more than I do, and when most people ask how I quit at 53 my canned response is saved a lot, don't spend much I don't need to, and inherited enough to get me close enough to the line I thought I'd hit in 6 or 7 more years.
 
I recently started a retirement club in my local area and am surprised at the number of people attending the meetings. Many of them have financial advisors but are not inclined to ask questions of the advisor. It has been refreshing to see so many pre-retirees and retirees interested in the subjects we discuss on this forum every day. Next month is retirement taxes 101 and the interest is very high with the members.
 
One realization I was slow to come by is that people that are not in the least financially savvy aren't necessarily stupid or have poor impulse control over their spending. I know some very successful and intelligent people who are tops in their field but have no knowledge of saving and investing. Even engineers who took years of advanced math don't seem to grasp the power of compound interest.
 
But how do you know that the new BMWs' and Range Rovers' are not saving a dime? I owned 3 BMWs and a couple of sports coupes but I still managed to save a healthy amount of money. The one thing that you do not know is how much they are really making.
I agree. I bought only new cars from 1975 onward and look where I am today...
 
Most of my friends and acquaintances use ”a guy” and are just consulted.

Once in a while, they want to discuss specifics but they were all latest fad choices. Not any meaningful buy and hold choices.
 
One realization I was slow to come by is that people that are not in the least financially savvy aren't necessarily stupid or have poor impulse control over their spending. I know some very successful and intelligent people who are tops in their field but have no knowledge of saving and investing. Even engineers who took years of advanced math don't seem to grasp the power of compound interest.
Well, Compound Interest, literally speaking, is unlikely to outpace Compound Inflation over the medium to long run, especially after subtracting income taxes.

Now stock index funds, yes indeed, them's a whole nother ball game...
 
I agree. I bought only new cars from 1975 onward and look where I am today...
I am 61. Drove a motorcycle in college, as that was what I could afford. Bought a little 4 banger Dodge D-50 pickup in the 1986, when 1st child was born. Bought a Dodge Minivan in the 96, when we had our 2nd child and with our third on the way in 1987. Then in 2012 bought a Dodge Challenger RT.

That is it. Three cars total since my first in '86 (four if one counts the motordcycle). The latter two are still in use. The first eventually rusted out.

Buy them. Pay them off. Keep them forever. Put the money that would be spent on car payments into new transmissions and other "expenseive" items. These expenses are far, far less than what a new car would cost. Has been my philosophy on keeping down auto expenses, and has worked very well.
 
You folks here on the forum are the only ones who I can talk to about things like money and finances. I wish DH was interested but I've accepted that he's not going to change.

I've asked him to take a look at a bank account, or an investment, or a credit card website just to be familiar with things and he won't even do that. Just look and ask a question about a transaction. Nope, not going to happen. Don't you want to know why I moved that chunk of money from there to here? Do you see that deposit? Are you curious about what that is? YOU SHOULD BE!

It's frustrating and sad. We are doing so well and he won't even look. Doesn't want to know.

It's just me and my spreadsheets.

That is super frustrating.

I definitely lead the money effort in our house but I walk DW thru everything semi-annually. She doesn’t make any pretense of understanding the details but if you quizzed her on our assets, investment mix, annual spending and rough long term plan, she would post a solid “B” grade.

I hope DH takes some interest in it!
 
My spouse has zero interest in our investments. Never has.

It is not an issue. She has other interests. She will not change, I have no desire to change her.

We are on exactly the same page when it comes to finances. There have never been any disputes, disagreements, on spend, saving, etc. We are in agreement on our general investment strategy and lifestyle/spend.

She absolutely will not discuss personal finances with friends, relatives, etc. and would never want anyone to know our financial position.

I consolidated our investment and our banking accounts prior to early retirement. Some in my name, some hers, some joint. One consolidated statement. She attends the investment reviews. I manage them, have access, whose name is on the account does not really matter.

We also keep our respective wills, POA's and directives up to date. If I get hit by a bus she would only have to make 3 calls. FA, lawyer, and accountant (at tax time).

Everything goes through our current account either auto pay or credit card. It would take her 10 minutes to get up to speed. Very fast study as they say.

It works for us and has done for 50 plus years so I guess that is all that matters.
 
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DW also has zero interest in account details. I regularly give her a verbal update especially when our portfolio is doing well. Occasionally I scare her a bit by discussing what might happen in my demise.

We agreed on her doing occasional login's (bank, brokerage) and being able to describe what she sees on the screens. But that is up to me to push her and I'm not very excited about that task.
 
You folks here on the forum are the only ones who I can talk to about things like money and finances. I wish DH was interested but I've accepted that he's not going to change.

I've asked him to take a look at a bank account, or an investment, or a credit card website just to be familiar with things and he won't even do that. Just look and ask a question about a transaction. Nope, not going to happen. Don't you want to know why I moved that chunk of money from there to here? Do you see that deposit? Are you curious about what that is? YOU SHOULD BE!

It's frustrating and sad. We are doing so well and he won't even look. Doesn't want to know.

It's just me and my spreadsheets.
Try to count your blessings. You could have a different problem. You could be married to someone who can't balance the checkbook or pay bills on time, but thinks he can make intelligent investment decisions based on the watercooler talk at work. This creates much more marital conflict and financial insecurity than just having a spouse who is disinterested. Accept that you will be responsible for your family's finances, that you will make the hard decisions, what can be purchased, what cannot. That you will have to give yourself the pats on the back and get your attagirl/boy's on this forum----one that did not exist for me in the 90's back when I had two kids in diapers and was living paycheck to paycheck.
 
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