Do we have everything covered to avoid probate?

stephenson

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Hi All,

After a year of battling pancreatic cancer, my sister passed in March - she was single, no children, I’m the only sibling, and my wife and I have two children - I am the successor trustee. I’ve posted about a few of the financial components of this, previously.

While I was given a period of time during her illness to assist her in getting her affairs in order, assigning beneficiaries (which, btw, she thought she had done, but actually had NOT) and preparing all so as to NOT require probate (attorney involved), my kids may not have this same sort of circumstance. I say kids, because my spouse is more than capable enough to manage, as I am. Anything that will save the anxiety and level of effort in a dual death situation is a good thing.

We have a revocable trust (Florida) - and all our real estate (personal home and several rentals) is in the trust with normal flow to spouse and then to children.

Our IRA/Retirement accounts have beneficiaries assigned with normal flow to spouse and then to children (Fidelity and Vanguard) - transfer would occur instantly on death.

Our taxable investment account, money management account, and a couple of accounts at credit unions are TOD with same flow to spouse and then to children. My reading says this is enough to avoid probate, but is it? Worst case is both of us are killed in a car or airplane.

In Florida, my understanding is that two cars are not enough to push an estate into probate - but, we have three, and a boat (figure about $40,000). Since this is not something that can be covered with TOD, is this enough to push into probate given death of both of us, as noted?

I will, of course, be asking our attorney (estates and tax law) the same sort of questions - and, he was very helpful with my sister’s trust/estate. But I do want to search for others who have gone through this process.

Thanks!
 
Probate law varies by state, as you probably know.

In my state, there are "small estate" statutes. If the estate qualifies, then very simple procedures can be followed and probate can be avoided.

Notably, a careful reading of my state's laws shows that, for purposes of qualifying as a small estate, anything that passes outside the will is excluded. So in the case of my Dad, for example, anything with a beneficiary (IRAs, taxable), anything owned in trust (life insurance), 529s are all excluded. The tangible personal property in his case is below the statutory limit, so his estate will qualify.

What you might do is look for the Florida statutes and see what they say about small estates or simplified probate to find out the qualifications. (I know you're worried about a simultaneous death now, but it's far more likely you will die in old age after selling the boat and one or two of the cars.) In any case, you'll at least know what the requirements are.

Is there any way to re-title the cars and boat into the revocable trust? I have heard that insurance can sometimes be a pain with that, but I think it might be a possible option.
 
SecondCor521,

Florida allows two cars - and even then it is a bit fuzzy.

Boats can push one into probate from what I have heard - regardless of value - so, it may make sense to retitle to the trust ... just one of many questions.
 
Oklahoma passed a statue in 2016, allowing a Transfer On Death document to be filed with the state motor vehicle department that listed the new owner on death of the original current owner. This filed document allowed the vehicle to by pass probate.
We did this.
 
We have pretty much the same set-up that you have.
 
As others have said, laws vary by state. But from the research I've done, it is best to put whatever you can into the trust, including vehicles and TOD accounts.
 
OP--
We have done everything you have done. We have two vehicles. I will need to search our DMV to see if they have any kind of TOD form. That would be nice, as the cars are the only thing we don't have covered, as far as I know.
 
Why not have the trust that you aready have that owns the rentals and your home own the vehicles and the boat?

One other useful thing to know is that Florida allows enhanced life estate deeds for property... it functions like a beneficiary designation or TOD. We did it with our Florida condo. Technically, our two kids own the condo and my wife and I jointly have an enhanced life estate to use it, rent it and keep the rent, sell it and keep the proceeds from sale and essentially all the normal rights of ownership, but when the second of us dies then the kids own it free and clear without the life estate encumberance.
 
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Why not have the trust that you aready have that owns the rentals and your home own the vehicles and the boat?

One other useful thing to know is that Florida allows enhanced life estate deeds for property... it functions like a beneficiary designation or TOD. We did it with our Florida condo. Technically, our two kids own the condo and my wife and I jointly have an enhanced life estate to use it, rent it and keep the rent, sell it and keep the proceeds from sale and essentially all the normal rights of ownership, but when the second of us dies then the kids own it free and clear without the life estate encumberance.

Are the kids losing step up in basis with this method?
 
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