Doggy Dental with Heart Disease

[Teacher Terry]

I have a 9 year old Maltese that has developed Stage B2 mitral valve disease. I had an ultrasound so I would know if she needed heart medication which she does. The prognosis is 2-3 years of life expectancy. This always leads to congestive heart failure.

Maltese tend to have bad teeth which isn’t good for the heart so I get them a dental every 12-18 months. She had one 18 months ago and has stage two periodontal disease. The vet is pushing for a dental. She’s considered high risk for anesthesia although the cardiologist said with the proper protocols which he lists that she should be fine but it’s not without risks.

Dentals cost 1k and up. My dilemma basically is that what if she manages to live more than 2-3 years and then her teeth are potentially causing problems and she is too sick for a dental versus the risk of her dying now during the procedure. I like my vet and have been going there for a long time. Most people I know never do dentals or maybe one in the dog’s lifetime.

Also I have noticed that if I am at the vet on her surgery day that business is way down and sometimes she only has a few patients or none so part of me wonders if the push is financial. The practice really pushes for yearly dentals. So basically my dilemma is do I risk getting a dental knowing it’s possible she could die versus doing nothing and hope she doesn’t live so long that painful teeth aren’t an issue. It’s really a situation of no good choices. What would you do?

 

[irishgal]

In this situation I would get a referral to a dental specialist. This is a veterinarian who does nothing but dentals, usually complicated ones. They have extra education and are extremely experienced.
For normal teeth cleanings on a dog with no medical issues the general vet is probably fine but this is a higher risk case.
Good luck.

 

[Spock]

I'm currently in the same position (minus the heart problems) with our 12 year old Lhasa Apso. I also had a previous elderly Cockapoo that did not survive anesthesia for dental work and it was not pretty (vet sent her home... she died in my arms gasping for air while driving her back to the vet).
When I discussed the concerns with a specialty vet they said not to worry... but they wanted $2000 just to put her under to evaluate what needed to be done and then would charge per tooth.

We chose not to do the dental work. She is not in any pain and odds of surviving the procedure are low. At some point it becomes palliative care... just focusing on making her last years the best years I can.

 

[retire to nature]

if it is mostly for scaling, I would skip. My passed dog had echo it was only b1 before died, and they said it is ok comeback in a year. but soon, her declining was happening and a dr wanted to put a med. but she died soon. her case was heart and kidney both. But mostly medical is for business too. Also, drs just say what it is supposed to. My grandmother had bed pressure sore, a dr recommended a surgery. her condition was not even enough to be surgical table, so no surgery and she died 3 days later. I know you worked in healthcare too. I am not sure how you are thinking the field. But me, medical is all about theorical and these days no one listen or communicate well. with all my serious dogs' health and many visits to vets too. They dont know anything but just exchange bs in nice medical term.
if the heart issue, I would recommend some homefood. one of my former coworker had a dog with heart issue. Her hair style is with so much hair spray. that kind of stuff can make a dog toxic and vessels strict and harden and cause a heart issue. And why I feed my dog homefood because I am sensitive GI, I feel numbed when I eat processed food due to preserves. And I was sure for dog food they would eat those chemicals too. I do gardening so familiar with small insects too. these days no ants around those food.

And I didnt have certified nutritionist consult until last year. I was worried if i feed them right. but i paid and it was total bs too. I am back to my original recipe. because they choose one protein and one carb and add balanceit and have to be the same all the time and have to be exact amount. it is just another BS theory.

Just feed your dog with real food well. It will make her life longer. Since my dog with all kinds issue still hang around well.

 

[COcheesehead]

We had dental work done on our 11 year old poodle. We believe in dental health and our vet stresses it constantly. Before the procedure blood work was done and the vet noticed an enzyme in-balance. We gave our dog antibiotics for 6 weeks prior. All went well. The total cost was $700. Shop around.

 

[Teacher Terry]

We had dental work done on our 11 year old poodle. We believe in dental health and our vet stresses it constantly. Before the procedure blood work was done and the vet noticed an enzyme in-balance. We gave our dog antibiotics for 6 weeks prior. All went well. The total cost was $700. Shop around.

I believe in dental health also and all my Maltese have been getting them for past 19 years. But none have gotten one with a serious heart condition because it makes them high risk. Our COL is now more than Sacramento so everyone is paying around the same amount.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I'm currently in the same position (minus the heart problems) with our 12 year old Lhasa Apso. I also had a previous elderly Cockapoo that did not survive anesthesia for dental work and it was not pretty (vet sent her home... she died in my arms gasping for air while driving her back to the vet).
When I discussed the concerns with a specialty vet they said not to worry... but they wanted $2000 just to put her under to evaluate what needed to be done and then would charge per tooth.

We chose not to do the dental work. She is not in any pain and odds of surviving the procedure are low. At some point it becomes palliative care... just focusing on making her last years the best years I can.

On my other dogs I got their last dental around 11-12 but none had heart problems. That’s sad about your dog not surviving the dental. That’s what I am worried about and Amy is only 9.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Retire to nature, that’s scary that your dog died so fast after being in B1 stage because that stage doesn’t even need medication.

 

[FindingForward]

We had dental work done on our 11 year old poodle. We believe in dental health and our vet stresses it constantly. Before the procedure blood work was done and the vet noticed an enzyme in-balance. We gave our dog antibiotics for 6 weeks prior. All went well. The total cost was $700. Shop around.

Unless a pet parent is willing to travel far, I've found shopping around doesn't accomplish much - most vets charge based upon COL in that area. In our region, for example, basic cleanings on young pets START at 1,000-1500 and any dental work done (extractions, gum treatments) or complications (older pets, addtl bloodwork/cardio clearance, etc) starts at 2500 and goes up fast. I shopped around and prices only varied a bit.

An added wrinkle: few vets around here will quote any prices until they examine the animal first, so you're paying office visits and consults for every dental quote you get.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Unless a pet parent is willing to travel far, I've found shopping around doesn't accomplish much - most vets charge based upon COL in that area. In our region, for example, basic cleanings on young pets START at 1,000-1500 and any dental work done (extractions, gum treatments) or complications (older pets, addtl bloodwork/cardio clearance, etc) starts at 2500 and goes up fast. I shopped around and prices only varied a bit.

An added wrinkle: few vets around here will quote any prices until they examine the animal first, so you're paying office visits and consults for every dental quote you get.

I am guessing you are in the Bay Area with prices like that. Ouch!!

 

[Morgan22]

I had a middle aged Jack Russell Terrier that had a very tough time recovering from the anesthesia after a doggie dental. The vet was worried she might not survive going under anesthesia again and recommended giving her raw bones to chew on going forward. (Big enough that it can't be swallowed). Her teeth and gums were very healthy for the rest of her life.

My next dog, a large retriever, had great teeth. But I gave her large raw bones to chew on. She never needed a doggie dental during her life.

Raw bones can be a little messy, so I would always have my dogs start them outside. It's so much cheaper than a doggie dental and the dogs loved their bones.

(For some that may not know, never give your dog cooked bones! There is a chance they can splinter and get caught in their throat becoming a choking hazard).

 

[pacergal]

We had routine, yearly dental cleaning and work done on our last pup. He just had bad teeth and gums, along with skin problems and other issues! Expensive guy, but a lovable mutt.
Even "routine" dental is not without risk--anesthesia being the highest one.
But poor teeth, inflamed gums, painful eating is not a good life either.

There are probably less clients on the dental day, as that is the scheduled surgical procedure day. Less clients on purpose, to allow for prep, surgery, recovery time for the animals and staff. I would want it that way to make sure they don't miss anything and pay attention to my pet.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Believe it or not, there are now prescription dental foods that are effective in reducing plaque and tartar on pets' teeth. I started feeding one (Purina Pro Plan) to my dogs on my veterinarian's recommendation, and I have seen a definite improvement in the appearance of their teeth. The food isn't cheap, but neither are dental scalings at the vet's office.

It's best as a preventive, of course, maybe one feeding every couple days in that case. I have been feeding it once a day (out of two daily feedings) as a corrective measure.

Dental dog treats have been around for quite a while. The thing to look for on the bag is a seal from the VOHC, the Veterinary Oral Health Council, that endorses the product as an effective means to reduce dental deposits.

 

[Teacher Terry]

We had routine, yearly dental cleaning and work done on our last pup. He just had bad teeth and gums, along with skin problems and other issues! Expensive guy, but a lovable mutt.
Even "routine" dental is not without risk--anesthesia being the highest one.
But poor teeth, inflamed gums, painful eating is not a good life either.

There are probably less clients on the dental day, as that is the scheduled surgical procedure day. Less clients on purpose, to allow for prep, surgery, recovery time for the animals and staff. I would want it that way to make sure they don't miss anything and pay attention to my pet.

She only works 2 days a week and one day is surgery only which includes dentals and the place would be busy with dogs being dropped off between 8-9. Recently I was able to get in and see her on a Tuesday when I called that morning and the lady told me she didn’t have anybody scheduled.

The last few Tuesdays I have been there early to get something and hardly anyone. It has 6 vets and was a busy practice. I went yesterday to pick up medicine and I was the only one there.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Believe it or not, there are now prescription dental foods that are effective in reducing plaque and tartar on pets' teeth. I started feeding one (Purina Pro Plan) to my dogs on my veterinarian's recommendation, and I have seen a definite improvement in the appearance of their teeth. The food isn't cheap, but neither are dental scalings at the vet's office.

It's best as a preventive, of course, maybe one feeding every couple days in that case. I have been feeding it once a day (out of two daily feedings) as a corrective measure.

Dental dog treats have been around for quite a while. The thing to look for on the bag is a seal from the VOHC, the Veterinary Oral Health Council, that endorses the product as an effective means to reduce dental deposits.

I didn’t know about Purina Pro Plan having a dental food. I will ask my vet about it for max. Unfortunately I can’t use it with Amy as she’s allergic to many foods which causes vomiting and her anal glands to fill up within a week so I have finally found a limited ingredient food that is working. Amy has developed multiple issues.

Because my dogs are only 5lbs many of the dental sticks, greenies can’t be given as large pieces tend to break off and get stuck in their throat. I had a 1100 vet bill and my dog almost died. I tried the bite size dental treats which didn’t do anything. I accept the anesthesia risk for a healthy dog but was hoping someone on here had experience with a dog with heart problems.

 

[Teacher Terry]

The decision ended up being easy. Amy had to go back to the vet today to make sure her anal gland infection was gone and the vet wanted to do bloodwork as it’s been 2 years. Then she started talking positively about a dental and I asked a bunch of questions.

Then she said that the blood work has to be perfect or she wasn’t willing to do it because anesthesia sends some dogs with heart problems into heart failure. I decided right then I wasn’t doing it. She’s not old for a small dog at 9 1/2 and she can still probably have a few more good years.

 

[badatmath]

The decision ended up being easy. Amy had to go back to the vet today to make sure her anal gland infection was gone and the vet wanted to do bloodwork as it’s been 2 years. Then she started talking positively about a dental and I asked a bunch of questions.

Then she said that the blood work has to be perfect or she wasn’t willing to do it because anesthesia sends some dogs with heart problems into heart failure. I decided right then I wasn’t doing it. She’s not old for a small dog at 9 1/2 and she can still probably have a few more good years.

I just saw this - I think you made the right choice as long as she is not in pain. My cat had heart issues and I had to make that choice. The veterinary cardiologist had given protocols but I was not about to risk it unless he seemed to be in pain. They do have specialty pet anesthesiologists which can be an option though it would be pricey and not a guarantee. Dentals can be aborted pretty easily per my vet but again I would only consider that for a healthy pet or one suffering.

 

[calmloki]

Whew! so glad to read this thread. Had a Nurse Ratched wanting in the worst way to do high dollar root scaling on all my teeth, which I refused. Me and my Mitral valve and other heart problems took our teeth home. Added baking soda and enhanced brushing and the chompers look great - really think the money was the biggest determinate for that practice's recommendation.

 

[RetMD21]

I think you made the right choice. I am fortunate to have a veterinary school nearby which i think would be a good place for getting a second opinion.

 

[MarieIG]

The decision ended up being easy. Amy had to go back to the vet today to make sure her anal gland infection was gone and the vet wanted to do bloodwork as it’s been 2 years. Then she started talking positively about a dental and I asked a bunch of questions.

Then she said that the blood work has to be perfect or she wasn’t willing to do it because anesthesia sends some dogs with heart problems into heart failure. I decided right then I wasn’t doing it. She’s not old for a small dog at 9 1/2 and she can still probably have a few more good years.

I missed your decision. I didn't post - because I didn't have experience with a dog with heart problems undergoing dental work - but I would have been very nervous, and am glad that you decided not to have it done.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Amy had her last dental 18 months ago so she should be fine until she dies. Mr. Graybeard I had my vet prescribe the Purina pro plan dental food for max. He had a dental 8 months ago and if I could do it every two years instead of one that would be great. Since Amy’s bloodwork showed a liver problem and one other elevated marker I told the vet to never mention a dental for her again.

 

[MarieIG]

Amy had her last dental 18 months ago so she should be fine until she dies. Mr. Graybeard I had my vet prescribe the Purina pro plan dental food for max. He had a dental 8 months ago and if I could do it every two years instead of one that would be great. Since Amy’s bloodwork showed a liver problem and one other elevated marker I told the vet to never mention a dental for her again.

Sounds as if you are taking all the right precautions for your little ones!

 

[Teacher Terry]

Sounds as if you are taking all the right precautions for your little ones!

Thanks Marie! Except for my human kids the dogs are the most important thing to me. I have always spent a lot of money on them since I got my first dog in 2004. However, I have learned through the years that vets will try to get you to approve very expensive procedures even when they aren’t totally necessary. Unfortunately our vet prices are now as high as the Bay Area. I have also noticed a decline in their business.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Amy had her last dental 18 months ago so she should be fine until she dies. Mr. Graybeard I had my vet prescribe the Purina pro plan dental food for max. He had a dental 8 months ago and if I could do it every two years instead of one that would be great. Since Amy’s bloodwork showed a liver problem and one other elevated marker I told the vet to never mention a dental for her again.

The vet may give you a feeding regimen ... you can mix it in with other dry kibble. I feed our dogs twice a day and use the dental diet for one of the feedings, probably five days a week.

The dogs love it. My big dog occasionally tries to steal the food from the little one, which he never did before. I watch them eat the dental food to maintain order.

 

[Teacher Terry]

The vet may give you a feeding regimen ... you can mix it in with other dry kibble. I feed our dogs twice a day and use the dental diet for one of the feedings, probably five days a week.

The dogs love it. My big dog occasionally tries to steal the food from the little one, which he never did before. I watch them eat the dental food to maintain order.

Is there a reason you don’t feed it every meal?