DQOTD: Should Disinterested Spouses Be Forced to Some Minimum Engagement with Financial Plans?

I think it's appropriate to make sure DW knows where all the accounts are, and the passwords, and how to access those accounts. We all have different levels of patience with some things. Not sure how it works in your home, but my wife and I have designated duties, and we share in them as time permits. My wife has been a stay at home mom, and wife, had a job for a year when we first married and that was it. We both decided we wanted a stay at home mama for our children, and I, the man of the house would make sure that it happened, at times I held down two jobs to make ends meet, just so DW could be home with our kids. Because she was home, she did most of the traditional housekeeping items, and because I was/am responsible for the income, I am out of the home slaying dragons and bringing home the meat.
Because she was home, she did and still does all the bills (I'm still working for a few more months anyways). I have tried to share in her accounting but her way of doing things is so foreign to me, she has stuff all over the place, she still writes down all her passwords to accounts for paying bills, banking, Amazon, all of it. She'll ask me at times to go grab her 8 pages of usernames and passwords and tell me to find something for her, it takes me three seconds of looking at it and I just set it down and tell her, yer gonna have to wait till ya get home honey, I can't look at this, my patience gets really short when I look at her filing system.

But because of her, we've stretched paychecks, she's made my paychecks longer than the month, and at times she's gotten us out of some tight spots when the month was longer than my paycheck. I don't know how she did it, but we raised three kids, homeownership, and always had two cars that ran well and our family was never in need. She is a legend in our home with her accounting finesses.

So now it's my turn, I am retiring, and I am now getting completely absorbed in the retirement culture of everything, from retirement planning software, dialing in budgets, getting our ACA and HSA plans in place, timing our SSI, I have been completely engrossed in it all and she couldn't be more happier. I am sure she'll still run the day to day budgeting and paying of the bills, but for the complete planning of it all, that'll be me now, frankly it's not in her wheelhouse, not because she couldn't do it, but more because she is in a place in life right now where she's done enough, and now it's my turn.

I'll make sure she knows where the passwords are, the accounts are, and I'll share with her the retirement plan, and our adult kids will take care of the logistics for her if anything happens to me, they understand where it's all at, they also know where to find our Trust, that being said, our retirement is pretty simple, a pension, SSI, and an HSA for now until Medicare kicks in 6 years from now. I don't think I'll obsess over making sure she knows every single detail of the big plan, don't know if any of this helped or not, but hey, it's out there now. :)
 
There’s a long story behind this statement but years ago we got on the subject of a proper mourning period after a young wife’s passing.

The outcome was a short “until death do you part”, 3 months if I recall, they had young children.

I responded that if that’s all I mean to my spouse then, we were in the same situation, I’m going to stop worrying if something happens to me. She never asks about finances either.

Our finances are arranged for me as if I’m the surviving spouse. Talk about sleep well at night. 😴
 
My wife leaves all of our personal finance to me. She trusts me and the complexity overwhelms her. (a sidebar: she also has to deal with her mother and her uncles finances, which, while not as "complex" as ours are more urgent and in more of a mess). In light of that, I focus on what are the priorities in our personal finance, They are guided by "If I get taken out by a truck tomorrow, what are the priority of the financial things DW will have to act on". So my priorities for her are:

1. Estate Planning - we updated everything recently together, with a lawyer, so she knows where to start.

2. Cash - since we keep little in our checking/savings account used to pay bills, where is our cash held and how to move it to the appropriate account(s). This she can handle, and I have a document for her walking through the process. In addition, I am adding "things that I do now that you probably will have to pay someone to do" to this information, with a roughly estimate fo what should be set aside annually for those things.

3. Bills - she sits with me every month and goes through our bill payment process (both online and any mail). I think she is comfortable with doing that now. I also have built for her a spreadsheet for each bill that identities the frequency and due date within the month it is due, that she understands. I have sections for the "required" bills and the "fun living" bills, so she knows which ones can possibly be eliminated at my demise.

4. Income Taxes - after I do the taxes I walk her though it, with the software. She still is challenged by it, but because we just have "normal" revenue sources and the regular potential deductions, she can have some time to understand this. Our sons have similar income/deductions and can be available to help her.

5. Investments. This is a relatively low priority for her, since I am simplifying things so that she has time to get up to speed on them. I review them with her twice a year, with the emphasis on she has no need to make any changes and just "let things" ride for a year or more while she learns. Probably the biggest thing for her to understand, which I have been explaining to her, is RMDs. My biggest concern is that someone "frightens" her into thinking she needs to make urgent changes with our investments, so I continue to remind her that the income sources and cash will more than pay for bills and taxes, so run quickly away from anyone who presents a "you need to change these things immediately or else" scenario.

Along with all these things are simplified documents that I review her at least once a year. It may not all sink in at once, but having her focus on knowing where the cash is and what bills are to be paid know, and documents to walk her through the other stuff later, so far has given her more confidence about handling our finances should the time come when she has to.
 
If your spouse was really disinterested and unwilling to learn I think you have to find a third party to educate about your specific situation - maybe a responsible child, or relative of the spouse, or a financial adviser or institution to help guide the spouse.
 
Yes, “force” was a poor choice of words. I haven’t “forced” her to take an interest in our investments, taxes, etc. for the 45 years we’ve been married, so I didn’t mean force.

Again, my concern is if I go first I don’t want her to conclude I didn’t do my part to prepare her. I have simplified, our estate is not complex but there’s a limit there - I’m not going to sell funds and eat the sizeable capital gains taxes to get to 2-3 funds.

I will leave some instructions as others have. Fortunately redoing our Trust, she was involved every step of the way. And more importantly the Letter of Instruction “we” composed for our Successor Trustee(s) should be somewhat helpful to DW, but there’s more I need to write out.
 
Well the fact that she was involved every step of the way with redoing the trust is encouraging.
 
I've always been more hands on with our investments than DH. He manages the taxes. If he passed first I would probably muddle my way through taxact ok, or I can always hire an accountant for that once a year.

Similarly, he knows that our investments don't require much tweaking, everything is balanced and most equities are index funds. So if I go first he can just sell whatever as needed.

We'll be ok, even though we both have pretty big gaps in knowledge vs. expertise of everything that "financial plans" entails.
 
My familly wants nothing to do with the finances. I did have them type up accounts and where they were and where the copies of the trusts are. In there is instrutions on to let the financial advisor take on the managing tasks fully. But I did forget something that people listed above . The bills. Some are obvious, and some are not. These will get added to the instructions.
 
thank you for starting this thread

it's comforting to see that i am not alone as the only one in our household passionate about Financial lit
encouraging, collaborating or whatever you want to call it
definitely takes a bit of time over period of time
DW is getting into it slowly ...goal is to know how to at least oversee and have some fundamentals down for a possible future when i am not around constantly playing with it
for sure would be nice to have a simpler program in place and be easily able to flip a switch
if i am successful getting the kids to be able to do same i would be smiling up or down on them all some day
 
Mr. Tightwad said:
She's uninterested.

Accept it.

Make future plans based on the fact that she is uninterested.Y
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Yes... my DW is very uninterested.... it is hard for me to get her to even look at what is being spent... I have showed her twice in the last decade how to pay bills online and both times she was even more not interested...

I have accepted it... when I go it will be HER problem then... or one of our kids...

She is smart so it is not that... and when push comes to shove she will get in and learn... I just want to make sure that I have lined up a good FA at Schwab and Fidelity that can help some...
 
Sometimes it takes external events to generate interested from a disinterested spouse. For DW it was when we were in our early 40s. Over the course of some months, by sad coincidence, some of her married female friends and acquaintances either had their husbands die - some suddenly - or went through divorces. That caused major financial issues for these friends and acquaintances - houses and possessions had to be sold, some had to go back to work or work extra jobs, etc.

One evening DW came to me very concerned that she might be in the same position. I showed her that, though we were not FI at the time, through things like having a 1 year emergency fund, having good life insurance and Megacorp survivors benefits, refinancing our mortgage to reduce the length and payment amount, and separate funds for kids college, she would not be in that situation. That really (and joyfully) opened her eyes to the attention I was paying to our personal finances. Today it is not so much disinterest but more "I do not need to know a lot because I trust you, as you have proven to me for so long". I appreciate the trust, but still want to verify it for her so that she is prepared :) .
 
My DW used to do the checkbook and pay the bills, everything now is autopay.
I handled the finances as she was not interested , few things changed over the last year that have got her attention, a car crash both of us were in me getting the worse of it and her parents going down hill fast.
she is trying to get their finances in order my FIL has been doing a spreadsheet since I have known him late 90's , my MIL doesn't know what a spreadsheet is and even gets pissed that he was "hiding" it for years , I sat there over 30 years while she was sitting next to him for years while he updated it, she just had no interest or understanding.
They had their wills updated early this year , MY FIL wasn't suppose to make it til Christmas last year so they are lagging behind, finances are real good as long as he is alive , lot of incoming income , not so good when he passes.

These events have gotten my wife's attention, I have 2 U-tubes we watch that go over retirement finances investing, IRMAA, RMDs if your gonna die broke or with too much etc.... Next year I gonna let DW do the taxes ( put together and sent to tax guy) and one of these days update the investment spreadsheet., we have a monthly budget spreadsheet we both update as we spend so she knows the cash flow, just not how I maintain the cash accounts.

One of these day we will get wills and I think we should get a trust, Our biggest issue is who to leave it too, I figure I busted my ass for years to get where I'm at and the others should also and not get a handout, we have no kids.
 
I do all the finances. I keep her abreast of things but she only takes interest when I am asking her advice on something. We make big decisions together even though she always takes my recommendations. She is a good sounding block. Other than that there is not much interest on her behalf.

She has however put together a list of all the financial essentials for the executor of our will, so she knows everything that is going on and adds or deletes from the list when appropriate when I tell her. I am confident that if and when I cark it she will be well prepared.
 
My DW also does the check writing (bill pay). She's totally uninterested in the investment stuff. She only wants the bottom line that we have "enough."

So I'm putting together a book for her to follow if I go first.
 
It's interesting to read that several of you split your financial "duties" between the couple, one half does the investments while the other half pays the bills. In our case, I take care of everything, except my husband's investments. He usually asks me for advice and have me sit with him before he makes changes to accounts. It really is less of an issue for those of you who split financial "duties". If your investments are put on auto-pilot then there are fewer issues to the disinterested spouse that is left behind.
 
Al18 said:
At Fidelity, you can request a review of your assets at a meeting with your partner - no charge. At the meeting, you can ask for options if one of you passes away.
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We are in the middle of this now. DW has been super anxious about all of it but lately showing a bit more interest. The worst possible outcome would’ve been for me to “force” her to engage. She has the smarts and can figure things out if she has to. Having “enough” will make it easier but her anxiety wrt finances also makes her shark bait.
I put everything in the Fidelity portfolio and retirement income planners and show her the reports once per year. She sat in on a zoom call with our Fido rep as we reviewed everything so she has some level of comfort with Fidelity.
I do need to create a document with details, passwords, billpay, etc.
 
Forced to engage, participate, and have an understanding? Yes, 100%

At the same time, its the interested spouses responsibility to provide the education and information so that should he or she die, the other one isn't left clueless. It's a two way street and both participants need to be engaged.

How you do that is a personal decision, but financial information shouldn't die with one spouse. Same with family recipes.
 
My DW has been a mostly disinterested spouse, but she's getting there.

After I complete our taxes, we go through everything line by line comparing what the software has pulled in from the various institutions as well as those few things I enter by hand. We've been doing this for more than 35 years so she understands it quite well.

We make withdrawals every quarter for living expenses. Starting this year, one quarter I do everything from the calculations to the sales/transfers. The next quarter she's doing the sales/transfers so she knows the mechanics of how to do it. Beginning next year, I'll add the calculations to her to do list on the quarters she's responsible for. We'll of course swap sitting over the others' shoulders.

I've got a full document for her regarding what we're doing, why we're doing it and how to do it.

One of the things I changed this year, after some analysis, is that the bulk of our non-discretionary spending comes from TIPS ladders with a little help from dividends from a stock fund in our taxble account. That's about as close as I can get to "money just shows up". She still has to transfer proceeds out from coupons and maturing TIPS and there's a smidge of math regarding how to dole that out. Beyond that, our stock fund will be there where shares can be sold for anything lumpy or discretionary. It's about as simple as I can make it at this point.

Cheers.
 
Stop! For those that have their accounts so complicated, leave a paper with account numbers, passwords, etc. Stop trying to control from the grave. Before my husband passed I would give him a weekly report but I never forced him to learn. He wasn't interested. I had a single piece of paper with all the information for the accounts in our safe. I find it hard to believe that your spouses wouldn't seek advice when you are gone.
 
I have primarily done all of the finances. DH used to sit with me years ago and we would pay bills together, and every quarter review investment statements.
Then he "got tired" of it and stopped. I have started to have him sit down again and do bills with me, at least every 3 months. I do show him our investment statements monthly.
If something happened to me, he would have one of the kids help, and we still have our FA, as I have not been able to totally convince DH that we can do DIY. I am not sure he would be interested anyway, but that is something I am still working on.....
 
Midpack said:
Yes, “force” was a poor choice of words. I haven’t “forced” her to take an interest in our investments, taxes, etc. for the 45 years we’ve been married, so I didn’t mean force.

Again, my concern is if I go first I don’t want her to conclude I didn’t do my part to prepare her. I have simplified, our estate is not complex but there’s a limit there - I’m not going to sell funds and eat the sizeable capital gains taxes to get to 2-3 funds.

I will leave some instructions as others have. Fortunately redoing our Trust, she was involved every step of the way. And more importantly the Letter of Instruction “we” composed for our Successor Trustee(s) should be somewhat helpful to DW, but there’s more I need to write out.
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This. <I’m not going to sell funds and eat the sizeable capital gains taxes to get to 2-3 funds.>

It took a great deal of anguish and thought on my part to pay the LTCG taxes to get to one fund but buying a house this year helped with the liquidation of many of those assets. Now that I only see one fund type (currently in IRA, 401-K and taxable but all 500-index funds) the current endgame state is overwhelmingly satisfying, the pain of paying the taxes in 2025 will be over shortly and I consider the coming simplicity as my work of art.

Eventually there will be Vanguard IRA with one fund, Schwab with one stock, one fund and MM. I will be one proud papa once I pull this one off. Expensive, yes. Sometimes it costs to be simplified.
 
If you are in a community property state the surviving spouse gets a stepped up basis on all jointly held accounts (joint with rights of survivorship) which means a great opportunity to clean up and simplify. Still such a task may be too complex for some surviving spouses.
 
I provide my fiance with a summary of expenses each month and actual vs budget differences month and year to date. I also provide a top level summary of the investment totals.
I need to do more, but haven't done it yet.
 
I wonder if most people here have finances that are much more complicated than ours.

All our bills are set to be paid automatically. We have have automatic withdrawal of a fixed amount from our retirement funds. Our investments are all in funds and CDs.

Sometimes we move things from one fund to another, but most months we leave them where they are.

When CDs mature, we decide if we want to put them in more CDs or do something else.

Unless we have major expenses, we have more than enough money in checking to cover all our expenses. I can buy something for $100 without worrying if we run out of money. If we have a big expense, we look at our balance see if we need to transfer some from savings.

We get more money in than we spend, so every few months we move a chunk of money to CDs or investments or savings.

The amount of time we spend on all this is pretty small.

Sometime I will look at the exact numbers with my husband. Sometimes he will say "we are doing good" or "we could be spending more."

Really having a big picture is enough for me. I don't need to know exact amounts.
 
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