Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[Alan]

I am just curious what people do for charging.. we have a PHEV with 36 or so miles on EV but so far we plug in every night. Even if we (well, really DW as I am limited how much I get to drive) go 5 miles... and will only be driving 5 miles tomorrow..

So, if you have an EV and only dive a few miles and do not have any long trip planned do you plug in? I would think that if you dive 10 miles a day you can go at least a week without plugging in...

We only do about 5k miles per year, mostly local, and probably plug it in once every 2 weeks on average, charging to 80%. Prior to a long trip I’ll charge to 100% to maximise our cheap overnight rates. We have an id.3.

 

[audreyh1]

I am just curious what people do for charging.. we have a PHEV with 36 or so miles on EV but so far we plug in every night. Even if we (well, really DW as I am limited how much I get to drive) go 5 miles... and will only be driving 5 miles tomorrow..

So, if you have an EV and only dive a few miles and do not have any long trip planned do you plug in? I would think that if you dive 10 miles a day you can go at least a week without plugging in...

That’s what I do, plug it in about once a week unless we have a longer trip planned.

 

[audreyh1]

Tesla recommends you plug in every night whether you need it or not, and some owners do, some don’t. I drive about 8K miles/year. I charge level 2 at home, probably average every 3-4 days, but it varies from 1 to 5-6 days depending.

I think that may have been earlier recommendations from Tesla, but about the time we purchased our car there were no such recommendations to keep the car plugged in. We mainly focus on keeping battery level within a window around 50%.

My experience with the parked car is that energy use is extremely low. We’re gone for a few weeks and this time I’ve scheduled it to only charge once a week, and so far it’s only charged ~1 KWh cumulative.

 

[Texas Proud]

So, I might get some shade thrown at me on this....

I was reading the Lexus site about electrified cars... they had a chart that showed that for every EV car they can build 6 PHEVs.... or 90 hybirds... they are saying that building hybrids does better for reducing green house gasses so better for the environment....

I have not driven a hybrid except for a short distance test driving so do not know if I would like it, but do like the EV driving of the PHEV...

 

[Zathras]

This was true IF battery supply is constrained.
While some companies developed their battery supply chains, Toyota kept working against EVs.

So in their shoes, the above might still be true.

Likewise, for the metal in one Toyota Highlander they could make two Yaris. Building Yaris does better for reducing GHGs.

 

[RetMD21]

This was true IF battery supply is constrained.
While some companies developed their battery supply chains, Toyota kept working against EVs.

...

I think Toyota/Lexus will eventually solve their EV design and production problems. Many of us used to be anti EV. I think I was the model for this a few years ago

 

[Golden Mean]

This was true IF battery supply is constrained.
While some companies developed their battery supply chains, Toyota kept working against EVs.

What actions were "against EVs"? Not making them isn't "anti" IMHO.

 

[zinger1457]

So, I might get some shade thrown at me on this....

I was reading the Lexus site about electrified cars... they had a chart that showed that for every EV car they can build 6 PHEVs.... or 90 hybirds... they are saying that building hybrids does better for reducing green house gasses so better for the environment....

I have not driven a hybrid except for a short distance test driving so do not know if I would like it, but do like the EV driving of the PHEV...

I'm still trying to understand the benefit of a PHEV over the same model built as a hybrid. I looked at PHEV's (Toyota, Lexus, Volvo, Hyundai) last year when I was shopping for a new car, it seemed like a good idea, but the additional up front cost compared to the same hybrid model/options didn't add up. If driving 10K miles a year I might save $400/year on gas with a PHEV that cost ~$7k more. Have to admit I never drove a PHEV but assumed they would drive almost identical to the same model hybrid since most of the car components are the same. I don't notice any difference when my hybrid is driving in EV mode, wouldn't even know unless I happen to look at the dash and see the EV light on.

 

[joesxm3]

Grok says that PHEV has bigger battery and can go farther on battery leading to fuel cost savings and less wear on the gas motor. Also possible tax credits.

Cons. Higher upfront cost. need a charger. more complex if repair needed.

 

[Texas Proud]

I'm still trying to understand the benefit of a PHEV over the same model built as a hybrid. I looked at PHEV's (Toyota, Lexus, Volvo, Hyundai) last year when I was shopping for a new car, it seemed like a good idea, but the additional up front cost compared to the same hybrid model/options didn't add up. If driving 10K miles a year I might save $400/year on gas with a PHEV that cost ~$7k more. Have to admit I never drove a PHEV but assumed they would drive almost identical to the same model hybrid since most of the car components are the same. I don't notice any difference when my hybrid is driving in EV mode, wouldn't even know unless I happen to look at the dash and see the EV light on.

I was with you on the extra cost... made no sense to me... but the PHEV drives in full EV mode for 37 miles and at any speed where the hybrid can only do parking lots etc at low speed.. and the PHEV has like 60 more HP...

I only bought it because they were giving a price reduction of $7500 if you leased the car... I read somewhere that you can pay off the lease with not much in finance charges... we will see.. have had the car less than 3 weeks.. this makes the PHEV only $1500 to $2000 more so it will pay for the extra cost over time... without this reduction I would be driving (well, to be truthful, DW would be driving) the hybrid..

Right now we were closing in on 800 miles and have used maybe 3 gallons of gas... that will change next weekend as DW is driving to DDs apt..

 

[Texas Proud]

This was true IF battery supply is constrained.
While some companies developed their battery supply chains, Toyota kept working against EVs.

So in their shoes, the above might still be true.

Likewise, for the metal in one Toyota Highlander they could make two Yaris. Building Yaris does better for reducing GHGs.

No, I think it does not matter about battery supply... the numbers remain the same... 90 hybrids vs 1 EV...

I just looked... 92.5 million vehicles built in 2024... not sure that the supply chain could handle that much..

Saw another blurb that said hybrid sales growth is 5X vs EV growth... do not know the base numbers so do not know is this is impressive or not... then again, I saw on TV that sales for EVs have been declining recently.. again, no context so YMMV...

 

[Chuckanut]

I think Toyota/Lexus will eventually solve their EV design and production problems. Many of us used to be anti EV. I think I was the model for this a few years ago View attachment 55762

Here’s the best excuse “I don’t have a private place to easily recharge my EV at home like you do”.

 

[Midpack]

What actions were "against EVs"? Not making them isn't "anti" IMHO.

There are dozens of articles, it’s well documented Toyota actively lobbied against EVs. Here’s a couple.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/toyota-donates

Toyota has gone from lobbying against EVs to spending billions on battery development

The automaker wants to build a new battery factory.

www.theverge.com

Despite Toyota's reputation as a hybrid car innovator, said Zuckerman, "the world's largest automaker has quietly spent the past several years building a powerful U.S. influence operation in an effort to delay the transition to electric vehicles."

"Funding a small army of climate-denying lawmakers, while lobbying aggressively against stronger emissions and fuel economy standards, is a volatile combination intended to roll back policies that protect our communities and planet," he said.

In addition to financing the campaigns of lawmakers who deny that fossil fuel emissions are heating the planet and contributing to more extremewildfires, hurricanes, and other disasters, Toyota has also directly pushed back against climate regulations.

 

[zinger1457]

Grok says that PHEV has bigger battery and can go farther on battery leading to fuel cost savings and less wear on the gas motor. Also possible tax credits.

Cons. Higher upfront cost. need a charger. more complex if repair needed.

It would make sense if you could get a decent tax credit/price deduction like Texas Proud did, the pickings were pretty slim when I was looking, none of the models I looked at offered one.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g62389771/cars-eligible-for-plug-in-hybrid-tax-credit/

UPDATE 2/28/25: Starting on January 1, 2025, batteries must not be manufactured or assembled in China, Russia, Iran, or North Korea in addition to not containing any components made in those countries in order to qualify for federal credits. As things stand now, the Chrysler Pacifica Plug-In Hybrid is the only PHEV model eligible for federal tax credits.

Reports of the Trump administration's plans to end all federal EV/PHEV credits mean that this list could soon become moot. We'll continue monitoring the situation and update this story with any changes.

 

[Texas Proud]

To be truthful, it was a Lexus incentive... it was NOT a tax credit as the car is built in Japan.. either way, it reduced my cost... I think they did it to try and compete with cars that have it..

An update... DW put gas in the car today to get ready for her road trip... more than I had thought... but we got 114 MPG.. I am still trying to figure out how to look at fuel economy etc. so not sure where it is in the car... but I do see we get about 2.5 to 2.7 miles per KWH...

With just using the stated gas mileage when the ICE is working it appears we are about 70% EV and 30% hybrid... again, making a big WAG... about $30 electric and $16 gas..

 

[surfFL]

Happy one year anniversary to my 2024 Model Y LR AWD.
15,500 miles
247 wh/miles or 4.05 miles per kWh
Original tires with thread 7-8
Couple of rattling noises now and then I can live with.
$20 service (tire rotation once, the other one was free as part of a promotion)
$0 maintenance
$0 charging since ‘Liberation Day’, the day Tesla Energy finished the install of my 24 panels / 9.84kW solar system + 40.5kWh (3x Powerwalls 3) battery backup.
In May, best day; the system provided 120 miles of ‘free’ energy.
Living the dream: financial independence, water independence (well for my irrigation system), energy independence (for my 100% electric house and car, $25 / month solar subscription to FPL forever), hurricane independance (7-8 days off grid if all rainy days).
The car is at MCO airport, while I’m in Europe!

 

[RetMD21]

No, I think it does not matter about battery supply... the numbers remain the same... 90 hybrids vs 1 EV...
......

If battery materials aren't limited why would anyone care? I thought that was the whole point.

 

[explanade]

There’s talk of not only eliminating the EV tax credit in the new tax bill, they’d impose a federal $250 a year EV fee and a $100 hybrid fee.

To be collected via state DMVs when you register every year.

 

[audreyh1]

For plug-in hybrids I like how very quiet they are when you are driving slowly, most noticeable in parking lots and inner city slow traffic. Maybe regular hybrids are the same. I’ve only had the plug-in version as a rental car.

 

[Midpack]

There’s talk of not only eliminating the EV tax credit in the new tax bill, they’d impose a federal $250 a year EV fee and a $100 hybrid fee.

To be collected via state DMVs when you register every year.

As you know, many states (at least 36) already collect NEV fees, mine does. Hopefully this won’t be on top of state fees as I am already paying over 2X road tax offsets…

 

[REWahoo]

As you know, many states (at least 36) already collect NEV fees, mine does. Hopefully this won’t be on top of state fees as I am already paying over 2X road tax offsets…

The current fees collected by those 36+ states is for fuel taxes lost to the state. The proposed $250/$100 federal fee is for lost fed fuel taxes and is IN ADDITION to state fees. These amounts exceed the average annual federal tax amount paid by US drivers through their fuel purchases. IOW, it is a punitive fee targeted to those who dare not support big oil by purchasing hybrid and/or electric vehicles.

 

[explanade]

They're looking for new revenues to offset the tax cuts they want to give out.

So they're going after things they don't believe in, such as EVs.

 

[audreyh1]

As you know, many states (at least 36) already collect NEV fees, mine does. Hopefully this won’t be on top of state fees as I am already paying over 2X road tax offsets…

Same here!

The current fees collected by those 36+ states is for fuel taxes lost to the state. The proposed $250/$100 federal fee is for lost fed fuel taxes and is IN ADDITION to state fees. These amounts exceed the average annual federal tax amount paid by US drivers through their fuel purchases. IOW, it is a punitive fee targeted to those who dare not support big oil by purchasing hybrid and/or electric vehicles.

Oh, well!

 

[joesxm3]

New Tesla got a boo boo. Not even 300 miles on the car and my neighbor pointed out a scrape on the edge of my right front wheel. On the wheel not the wheel cover. The only way I can think of this could have happened was scraping on a stack of concrete bricks coming into the garage . . .

 

[joesxm3]

There has been some discussion about how FSD can survive harsh environments like sun glare or bad weather.

Today I gave my new 2026 Model Y with FSD 13.2.9 a hard workout. I drove 250 miles, mostly highway in heavy rain. Compared to similar weather last year in my 2023 Model there were some differences.

Last year FSD declared "FSD may be degraded" most of the time but did a good job handling the rain when I ignored the warning. At one point the rain overwhelmed the windshield and I initiated a take over.

Today there was no "FSD may be degraded" message. FSD did a good job. At two times when the rain and the spray overwhelmed the windshield FSD declared "take over immediately". FSD seemed to still be running until I processed the message and manually stopped FSD. In a minute or two I was able to turn FSD back on. The first time this happened it displayed a message telling me to keep my hand on the steering wheel (V13 allows hands in the lap most of the time).

I think in the "take over immediately" a fully autonomous car may have been able to pull over and park, although that may not be best in traffic.

Another observation regarding the windshield wipers not wiping fast enough to give me the level of clear view I would want while driving. The main camera is mounted high on the windshield behind the rear view mirror. It seemed to me that the air flow on the windshield was keeping this part of the windshield clear while the lower part that i look through was building up water. It seems FSD was controlling the wipers to handle its own needs and not mine.

At some points with FSD driving I felt that it would have been very hard or stressful for me to be driving because I could not clearly see where I was going.