Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[flyoverstate]

Can't argue with a stump, as my Okie granddad used to say.

I’ll ask again, since you avoided the question.

What happens after eight years?

 

[JoeWras]

I'll believe it when I see it. Vinfast is restarting construction in NC. Job estimate down to 1,400 from 7,500. What are they even going to produce? This kind of run-around from companies is typical in NC. Apple has said they are going to build a campus in RTP for 12 years now. Nothing...

VinFast expects to resume Chatham Co. EV plant construction next month

VinFast plans to resume construction on its electric vehicle plant in Chatham County as soon as April.

abc11.com

 

[Zathras]

They’re also announcing the sedan version, the 3-series EV.

Here's BMW's first all-electric 3 series, the 2027 i3

The iX3 SUV was very good; we think the i3 sedan will be even better.

arstechnica.com

I think the 3 series had greater sales even in the SUV-crazy US because it had lower prices than the X3. But it seems the big EV sellers, at least in the US, are SUVs or crossovers.

The i3 should have even greater range than the iX3 inc it a lighter, smaller vehicle.

But when my lease is up next year, I’ll probably also be looking at the iX3. The one time I test drove a 3-series the head room was bad and I'm just average height. I prefer driving higher and I've also had back spasms where getting into an SUV was much easier than bending to get into a sedan.

This is very high on my list when my lease is up next year as well.
I very much prefer a smaller vehicle. The i4 kind of fits that, but an electric 3 series should fit that desire even better.

I also want to see the Polestar 7, however I don’t expect that to be available yet.

 

[braumeister]

This is very high on my list when my lease is up next year as well.
I very much prefer a smaller vehicle. The i4 kind of fits that, but an electric 3 series should fit that desire even better.

I also want to see the Polestar 7, however I don’t expect that to be available yet.

If you're looking for something like that, I might suggest the Volvo EX60. I would be torn between that and the BMW iX3.

 

[Zathras]

If you're looking for something like that, I might suggest the Volvo EX60. I would be torn between that and the BMW iX3.

I loved the Volvo EX30. If it had a HUD, I’d be driving one now.
The EX60 is too big for my taste. I like the styling, just not the size.

 

[braumeister]

I loved the Volvo EX30. If it had a HUD, I’d be driving one now.
The EX60 is too big for my taste. I like the styling, just not the size.

Understood. It's about the same size as the iX3, so I guess neither will work for you.

 

[Zathras]

Understood. It's about the same size as the iX3, so I guess neither will work for you.

Agreed, the iX3 SUV isn’t something I would consider.
Th i3 Sedan is a car I am looking forward to checking out though

 

[audreyh1]

Tesla is continuing to build out charging stations, thank goodness, and the V3 charging post is no longer in production. It’s all V4s now. V4 cabinets can support 8 charging posts whereas the old V3 cabinets only handled 4.

This is a cool video from Tesla Charging showing the new folding pre-fab V4s that make installing a station very fast.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2036951111798505517

US EV manufacturers have now adopted the NACS, some use adapters but recent models often have the direct connection. We see quite a few non-Tesla EVs at the charging stations now.

Also worth mentioning is that Tesla now provides private label V4s for companies to install their own branded charging stations, and many are doing so, or upgrading existing stations with V4s such as Francis Energy.

 

[RetMD21]

That's very slick. I don't supercharge often but I am glad that Tesla and othrs are expanding the options

 

[flyoverstate]

Heads up: I just found out about a Federal tax credit for EV chargers that is STILL available until June 30, 2026. You must live in a "low-income" or "non-urban" area. I looked up our Census id and we are "non-urban". The criteria for non-urban is pretty dang rural, under 5000 people.

Federal Tax Credits for EV Charging Infrastructure (30C) - Plug In America

Everything you need to know about the Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property Tax Credit (30C), a.k.a. the EV charging tax credit.

pluginamerica.org

 

[audreyh1]

That's very slick. I don't supercharge often but I am glad that Tesla and othrs are expanding the options

I very rarely use the charging stations, but I need them on a long road trip which we like to do in our EV. A lot of stations have been added since we bought our car, and new (preferred) routes are opening up. I’ll be really happy when they build one in Roswell NM as we prefer to use US 285 to get from I-10 to I-40. They’ve also recently opened one in Durango CO, and started construction on one in Pagosa Springs CO. Those will be handy as southwest CO is a favorite area in and I prefer to travel along US160.

 

[fosterscik]

Heads up: I just found out about a Federal tax credit for EV chargers that is STILL available until June 30, 2026. You must live in a "low-income" or "non-urban" area. I looked up our Census id and we are "non-urban". The criteria for non-urban is pretty dang rural, under 5000 people.

Federal Tax Credits for EV Charging Infrastructure (30C) - Plug In America

Everything you need to know about the Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property Tax Credit (30C), a.k.a. the EV charging tax credit.

pluginamerica.org

Interesting. My next car will almost certainly be an EV and I may jump on this to save a little money. It should be possible to get it all completed before June 30. The only question i have is which charger to install. I will buy a Rivian R2 (if I like it once they're available to test drive) and if not a Tesla Y. Is there any downside to using a 3rd party charger on an EV (Rivian on a Tesla box or vise versa)?
The link in that source does not work, but you can see eligibility here:
Plug-in America form and it references this map for eligibility 30C tax credit eligibility.
I see "This census tract is eligible through 2030 because it meets the definition of “not an urban area” according to Treasury/IRS guidance based on 2020 Census definitions of urban area using 2020 census tract boundaries (or “2020 non-urban census tract”).

 

[RetMD21]

I very rarely use the charging stations, but I need them on a long road trip which we like to do in our EV. A lot of stations have been added since we bought our car, and new (preferred) routes are opening up. I’ll be really happy when they build one in Roswell NM as we prefer to use US 285 to get from I-10 to I-40. They’ve also recently opened one in Durango CO, and started construction on one in Pagosa Springs CO. Those will be handy as southwest CO is a favorite area in and I prefer to travel along US160.

We travelled eastern NM a couple of years ago from I-10 to I-40 and it was light on infrastructure but it was pre EV for us.

 

[audreyh1]

We travelled eastern NM a couple of years ago from I-10 to I-40 and it was light on infrastructure but it was pre EV for us.

We’ve traveled via I-25 and via the Texas Panhandle a few times, but prefer the eastern NM route, so hoping for better options.

 

[explanade]

So the BMW iX3 has gotten rave reviews and they announced that the EPA rating is likely to be 434 miles, outpacing just about every model.

But I looked closely at the specs and it has a giant battery:

The new range figure is up to 434 miles, which is based on preliminary BMW AG estimations. While the published range of new European EVs are often based on the optimistic WLTP cycle, BMW says the iX3’s 434-mile range is derived from EPA testing procedures. In other words, this is a realistic expectation of how far you can expect to get when the 108-kWh battery is fully juiced up. Here’s a look at how the iX3’s range compares to other similar EVs.

Read in Autoblog: BMW iX3 Claims 434 Miles of Range, Leaving Rivals Far Behind — Autoblog


OK for comparison, my leased Honda Prologue has a 85 kWh battery and is rated at 308 miles range on a full charge.

The Prologue is longer, wider and taller than the iX3 yet the curb weight is less, yet the 2WD which has the best range is 4932 pounds versus 5203 for the iX3.

So smaller vehicle but heavier because of a bigger battery pack.

For comparison, the gas engine X3 2WD is about 4100 pounds so a full thousand pounds less.

Toyota revamped its EV SUV as the bZ and got its curb weight under 4100 pounds! Its dimensions are similar to the iX3 and it has range of 320 miles on a 74 kWh pack.

So maybe they use more plastics and lighter weight materials than the Prologue or the iX3?

Or they have a slightly better battery? But the iX3 Neue Klasse is suppose to be one of the most advanced EV platforms yet.

 

[ERD50]

.... Toyota revamped its EV SUV as the bZ and got its curb weight under 4100 pounds! Its dimensions are similar to the iX3 and it has range of 320 miles on a 74 kWh pack.

So maybe they use more plastics and lighter weight materials than the Prologue or the iX3?

Or they have a slightly better battery? But the iX3 Neue Klasse is suppose to be one of the most advanced EV platforms yet.

Not sure what you think is odd?

The iX3 is:
434 miles/108 kWh = 4.019 m/kWh;
the Toyota is:
320 miles/74 kWh = 4.324 m/kWh.

Less range means smaller, lighter battery, less weight in car to support the lighter battery, smaller tires to support that weight. So I fully expect the car with the lower range to get more miles per kWh of battery. Is there a mystery here?

Or take it to extremes - a cross country trip on a single charge. The battery would weigh so much that car couldn't move under it's own weight zero miles! I actually experienced that while playing with thesetiny $16 CX quad drones. They take a tiny battery, and you get about 5 minutes of flight time. I thought I could add a second battery, and double the flight time. But the battery weighs 5 grams (same as a US nickel), and when I tested the drone, the max it could lift was 5 grams! So adding the 2nd battery would "increase" the flight time to... ZERO!!!


edit: Maybe you see the Prologue as the outlier @ 308/85 = 3.62. But you say it is taller nd wider, so I'm guessing air resistance is the factor in reducing the range factor. Since EVs are efficient at converting battery power into motive power, the losses are a very direct hit to overall efficiency. Some of that sort of gets buried with an ICE, because of the lower efficiency (and ICE actually become more efficient as they are loaded, so a slight offset there as well).

 

[braumeister]

So the BMW iX3 has gotten rave reviews and they announced that the EPA rating is likely to be 434 miles, outpacing just about every model.

Yes, everything we know about the iX3 is super impressive. They just announced that starting May 6th they will be taking reservations, and I'll bet they're snowed under with them. They have already increased the factory output based on European demand.

 

[explanade]

But it appears they chased maximal range by putting a maximal battery pack into it.

 

[RetMD21]

For my purposes anything over 350 mile range is excessive. I'd rather have less weight and cost.

 

[ERD50]

But it appears they chased maximal range by putting a maximal battery pack into it.

Well, engineering is managing tradeoffs. You want more range, there's only so many ways to get it.

A) Increase efficiency of battery-motor-wheels. These are already very efficient and optimized. Not much to pick from here at a price point for consumers.

B) Lighter, smaller battery and motor. Again, what's available in consumer-level products is already being used. Incremental improvements will be coming, but by definition are not here now.

C) Improve rolling resistance through weight reductions, and low RR tires.

D) Reduce wind resistance. C &D, in addition to cost/availability restrictions, are also limited by consumer 'wants' in terms of style and function.

More battery/cowbell is kind of the 'brute force' method. But within the constraints, maybe the best choice. Do you think they missed something?

 

[Koolau]

More battery/cowbell is kind of the 'brute force' method. But within the constraints, maybe the best choice. Do you think they missed something?

I'm sure there is a market for EVs with extra long range. I recall times when we would visit friends at least once a month (when we were young and had no kids). Our friends were 300 miles away. We thought nothing of jumping in the (ICE) car and driving 5 hours for a long weekend visit.

Now, if I were to purchase an EV, I'd want something like a LEAF or similar low-range vehicle. An 80 mile trip is just about my personal endurance on the Island - that's the "long loop." Carrying around a huge battery here has little utility. SO, the application is the thing.

 

[TrvlBug]

I was interested in the ix3 EV, however, my IX is out of warranty in the fall and I needed a new EV before then. And given the wonky software in my IX, I don't trust BMW to do better. Picked up my 2026 Lucid Gravity yesterday and am loving it. Software is not at the level of Tesla, but 1000 times better than the IX.

 

[Original Wally]

Molly got the BMW i4 in 06/24. We DID HAVE a little "range anxiety" which proved to be unfounded.
We are in Sacramento and there is AMPLE infrastructure. Being retired, we really to not to the long excursions so much. It HAS been to Monterey (150 miles) for a weekend, NO PROBLEMS.

 

[explanade]

For my purposes anything over 350 mile range is excessive. I'd rather have less weight and cost.

Yeah I'm about 18 months into my lease, my first EV. I haven't attempted long road trips, the most is about 50 miles each way.

If I wanted to drive 250 miles or more I'd appreciate the extra 100 miles of range.

But for 95% of my driving around town, the extra weight and the big battery capacity wouldn't be an advantage. In fact it might be something of a liability.

Because demand, at least initially for this car, is expected to be huge, I suspect dealers will try to extract prices well over the manufacturer's sticker price.

And for my driving needs, anything over 250 miles range would probably be more than sufficient. I charge up only once or twice a month and only draw down to maybe about 30% before I recharge.

 

[explanade]

I'm sure there is a market for EVs with extra long range. I recall times when we would visit friends at least once a month (when we were young and had no kids). Our friends were 300 miles away. We thought nothing of jumping in the (ICE) car and driving 5 hours for a long weekend visit.

Now, if I were to purchase an EV, I'd want something like a LEAF or similar low-range vehicle. An 80 mile trip is just about my personal endurance on the Island - that's the "long loop." Carrying around a huge battery here has little utility. SO, the application is the thing.

I've been researching a trip to Hawaii recently.

First, hotels in downtown Honolulu charge $50-60 a night for parking -- that's on top of resort fees and mandatory amenity fees. Restaurants will validate parking other wise it's $6 an hour or more and some reviews complain about not being able to find the parking which the restaurants will validate. What do people do if they want to take out and just come up and pick up?

I hope the buses are good. There are AirBnbs with parking included but if you want to go anywhere, you have to find and pay for parking it seems.