Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[JoeWras]

I don't know how the fact that Toyota and Subaru are selling nearly the exact same cars "doesn't add a lot to the discussion"? If you can get a bz for $3k less than the equivalent Solterra, or a Trailseeker for $5k less than the equivalent bz Woodland, it helps to know that they are essentially the exact same cars. One of the people BUYING a Solterra at the same time we were, didn't know the car was actually a Toyota and that the bz was the twin of the Solterra. They had no clue.

Many of the parts between the cars are THE same, and they have both Subaru and Toyota part numbers stamped on them. The prices are often different. For example, the roof rack cross bars for the bz and the Solterra come in the SAME BOX, stamped with both manufacturers, but Subaru charges $490, Toyota charges $385.

I need to learn how to write. I think I'm losing it. What I meant was "JoeWras is not adding a lot to the discussion by talking about Camry and Subaru from 15 years ago and Toyota's partial investment in Subaru." Old news. My apologies.

Agree on everything you said. And I know the situation well. DW has a Pontiac Vibe, which is really a Toyota Matrix. GM dealers want nothing to do with Pontiac anymore, so they don't carry parts. When I need something like ignition coils, I just go to my Toyota dealer and tell them I have a Matrix. The only unique things to the Vibe are fluff stuff like interior parts or some outside cladding.

DW got the Vibe because it was easy to get a good deal on it instead of getting reamed by the Toyota dealer for the Matrix. Same situation.

 

[RobLJ]

the beauty of EV acceleration is brief, intense, on-demand bursts... like accelerating from 20 mph to 35 mph is a few hundred milliseconds. I intensely crave that, and would take nothing less than a later-model Tesla M3P... might even get a Plaid, if depreciation is sufficiently aggressive, though I don't care for the Plaid's higher weight.

One of the perks of the Equinox was that for 28k after rebate, I was buying a car with a lot better acceleration than any car I had bought, although the Forester Turbo, after the lag, was pretty nice, especially going up mountain over Donner Pass. It's a hell of a lot cheaper to feed, especially now, and I'm ignoring our solar. (The Subbie wanted Premium, which is costly here in Reno).

 

[flyoverstate]

I need to learn how to write. I think I'm losing it. What I meant was "JoeWras is not adding a lot to the discussion by talking about Camry and Subaru from 15 years ago and Toyota's partial investment in Subaru." Old news. My apologies.

Agree on everything you said. And I know the situation well. DW has a Pontiac Vibe, which is really a Toyota Matrix. GM dealers want nothing to do with Pontiac anymore, so they don't carry parts. When I need something like ignition coils, I just go to my Toyota dealer and tell them I have a Matrix. The only unique things to the Vibe are fluff stuff like interior parts or some outside cladding.

DW got the Vibe because it was easy to get a good deal on it instead of getting reamed by the Toyota dealer for the Matrix. Same situation.

I still see several Pontiac Vibes around here, because the biggest local dealer until 2009 was a Pontiac dealer, and apparently this area is where Pontiacs go to die. Many, many Grand Am's. I even saw a mint TransSport mini-van a few weeks ago. There is one local Holden GTO, and a couple of Solstices.

I always tell DW that if I ever owned a Vibe, I would get a vanity plate: RATOR . See how many people picked up on it.

 

[flyoverstate]

One of the perks of the Equinox was that for 28k after rebate, I was buying a car with a lot better acceleration than any car I had bought, although the Forester Turbo, after the lag, was pretty nice, especially going up mountain over Donner Pass. It's a hell of a lot cheaper to feed, especially now, and I'm ignoring our solar. (The Subbie wanted Premium, which is costly here in Reno).

The premium "gas tax" is one of the reasons we traded our VW Golf with the 1.8T turbo engine for an EV. It was a good car, AWD and 34 MPG, but was facing a few expensive service issues, and it required premium. Remember when Regular, Mid-Grade, and Premium were all only 20 cents difference from each other? Now, around here, Mid-Grade is 45 cents more and premium is 85 cents more than Regular. It really adds up, especially in my pickup truck that needs premium when towing.

 

[Koolau]

I still see several Pontiac Vibes around here, because the biggest local dealer until 2009 was a Pontiac dealer, and apparently this area is where Pontiacs go to die. Many, many Grand Am's. I even saw a mint TransSport mini-van a few weeks ago. There is one local Holden GTO, and a couple of Solstices.

I always tell DW that if I ever owned a Vibe, I would get a vanity plate: RATOR . See how many people picked up on it.

I'm guessing they now run all the vanity plate entries through AI. That should pick up anything too subtle for the usual "team" to decide upon.

Heh, heh, I'd let it go but...

 

[Koolau]

The premium "gas tax" is one of the reasons we traded our VW Golf with the 1.8T turbo engine for an EV. It was a good car, AWD and 34 MPG, but was facing a few expensive service issues, and it required premium. Remember when Regular, Mid-Grade, and Premium were all only 20 cents difference from each other? Now, around here, Mid-Grade is 45 cents more and premium is 85 cents more than Regular. It really adds up, especially in my pickup truck that needs premium when towing.

What does E-85 go for? Doesn't it act as a very high octane super premium fuel? I know it has lower fuel mileage built in, but it used to be significantly cheaper than even regular. So perhaps it's considerably cheaper than super premium?

 

[flyoverstate]

What does E-85 go for? Doesn't it act as a very high octane super premium fuel? I know it has lower fuel mileage built in, but it used to be significantly cheaper than even regular. So perhaps it's considerably cheaper than super premium?

There is no E85 around here. Almost everything is E10, unless you hunt down non-ethanol, which is more expensive. My truck doesn’t take E85 anyway.

 

[JoeWras]

Slate "accidentally" leaked the price of the "Blank Slate" (basic, zero options) vehicle at $24,950.

It was live on their website for less than an hour or so at 4am in the morning EDT.

Looks like a mistake, but I'm guessing it was intentional since basically all their advertising has been social media based. Of course, social media lit up at this news.

I'm not sure what to think. I don't think a Blank Slate will do it for me with a range of 150 miles. I have a commute to the non-profit of 90 miles, and that cuts it close. I'd probably go with the extended range of 250, but there is no info on the upcharge.

I'm also trying to learn about different battery types. Have we discussed LFP and NMC here?

 

[swakyaby]

Did you get one with the HUD?
If so, how do you like it?

I’ve had a little more time to figure out the HUD on my 2026 Nissan Leaf. In addition to the current speed and the posted speed limit, it will show the navigation next turn, the street you turn on, and the distance to that street. That way, I don’t need to keep glancing over to the larger touchscreen where the large map gives an overall route view. I love this feature of this HUD.

 

[Zathras]

…

I'm also trying to learn about different battery types. Have we discussed LFP and NMC here?

I am not on expert on batteries.
From my layman’s understanding, LFP is less energy dense and less expensive.
LFP is also safer, and can be fully charged without suffering as much negative effects as NMC.

In short, for wringing every bit of range and performance, you want NMC.
For more durability and tolerance you want LFP.

 

[Chuckanut]

What does E-85 go for? Doesn't it act as a very high octane super premium fuel? I know it has lower fuel mileage built in, but it used to be significantly cheaper than even regular. So perhaps it's considerably cheaper than super premium?

Alcohol has less energy per gallon than ordinary petroleum based gasoline. This erases most of the price advantage to using it. If you want to use good quality fuel make sure you are pumping Top Tier fuel into your car. That contains the additional additives to protect your engine from deposits and other waste products of combustion. Octane is just that. If your car requires it, get it. Otherwise paying for higher octane is a waste of money. If your car runs well on regular, you are better off running your car on regular gas that is Top Tier than Premium fuel that is not Top Tier.

Check out this podcast for more information:

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/cars-driving/talking-cars-509-how-to-survive-the-gas-crisis-a5850514307/

My car explicitly warns against using more than 10% ethanol. I’ll let the more adventurous experiment with E15.

 

[G-Money]

What does E-85 go for? Doesn't it act as a very high octane super premium fuel? I know it has lower fuel mileage built in, but it used to be significantly cheaper than even regular. So perhaps it's considerably cheaper than super premium?

While E85 does have high octane (100-105), using it in a vehicle not designed for it is like trying to use diesel in a gas engine. You'll be sorry.

E85 requires higher flow injectors and fuel pumps and without those things it can cause a severe lean condition which will destroy an engine fairly quickly. And it's corrosive and can eat up seals and plastics if they're not specifically designed to be tolerant of higher ethanol content. E85 is 51-83% ethanol by volume.

E85 is not the same as E15 (often advertised as unleaded 88 octane, and has up to 15% ethanol by volume), there's a big difference there. E85 It's not a cheaper substitute for premium E10 or even E15.

 

[Ronstar]

Rode in a Zoox driverless ev cab a few weeks ago in Las Vegas. Downloaded the app, hailed a car, it picked us up at our hotel and drove us to another one without incident.

Zoox: It's Not a Car

Zoox is a purpose-built autonomous vehicle designed for riders, not drivers. Learn more about the Zoox robotaxi and the future of ride-hailing.

zoox.com

 

[JoeWras]

I am not on expert on batteries.
From my layman’s understanding, LFP is less energy dense and less expensive.
LFP is also safer, and can be fully charged without suffering as much negative effects as NMC.

In short, for wringing every bit of range and performance, you want NMC.
For more durability and tolerance you want LFP.

Thank you. I think that aligns with some other summaries I've read. I don't want to get in the weeds too much, this is a good high level.

 

[audreyh1]

Did you get one with the HUD?
If so, how do you like it?

I’ve seen some well implemented ones that I absolutely love!
However, I have seen a few, poorly implemented ones that are terrible.

My Leaf does have the HUD. But I haven’t yet figured out how to configure the display information I want to display. Right now, by default it is simply showing my actual speed and the posted speed limit sign. And I need to figure out how to raise the display so I can view the entire window. I do know I love the HUD because I had one in my 1999 corvette. And being able to view that information during the twisting canyon roads was really nice.

Not quite a “heads up display” but very close as you don’t have to move your head, but I love the incredible detail on my instrument panel, unfortunately only available in the Tesla X and S models. I never have to look over at my side screen while driving (or being driven).

The display shows the current route section and next turn on the left, car (mine red) and road makings and traffic lights/signs in the center plus all surrounding traffic, and speed limit, current speed and FSD status/mode on the right. While turn signals are on there is also video displayed from either the side camera. This is functionality that will be very hard for me to give up.

Waiting at the light you see all the surrounding and cross traffic live. 2nd photo zooms out to show the top of the yoke and windshield view, also getting ready to execute a right turn. 3rd photo immediately executing a left turn after the right. Tricky 5 way intersection that FSD could handle from day one. Blue circle indicates that FSD is active.

 

[module4330]

I would like to get an EV for the next family car. I really would like a van but there aren't exactly lots of EV Van choices in the US. It might be a budget item for next year so I haven't started seriously looking up models yet.

I wish we had a world of EV station wagons and vans instead of SUVs everywhere.

 

[joesxm3]

Audrey, thanks for the pictures. I had no idea that you had that nice display.

 

[Zathras]

Not quite a “heads up display” but very close as you don’t have to move your head, but I love the incredible detail on my instrument panel, unfortunately only available in the Tesla X and S models. I never have to look over at my side screen while driving (or being driven).

The display shows the current route section and next turn on the left, car (mine red) and road makings and traffic lights/signs in the center plus all surrounding traffic, and speed limit, current speed and FSD status/mode on the right. While turn signals are on there is also video displayed from either the side camera. This is functionality that will be very hard for me to give up.

Waiting at the light you see all the surrounding and cross traffic live. 2nd photo zooms out to show the top of the yoke and windshield view, also getting ready to execute a right turn. 3rd photo immediately executing a left turn after the right. Tricky 5 way intersection that FSD could handle from day one. Blue circle indicates that FSD is active.

View attachment 64367
View attachment 64368
View attachment 64369

I love that center display. For me, that is the next best option after a HUD.
Unfortunately on the 3 & Y it doesn't exist. And I won't drive a vehicle as big as an S or X.

I love the turn signal displays. The Ioniq 5 or 6 (or both?) had those when I last test drove one a couple years ago. I hope more companies are adding them.

 

[audreyh1]

Audrey, thanks for the pictures. I had no idea that you had that nice display.

It is so awesome, and besides the yoke probably my favorite feature of the Model X. It’s so detailed and crisp.

 

[Just_Steve]

Audrey, thanks for the pictures. I had no idea that you had that nice display.

I wish I had that.

 

[flyoverstate]

I would like to get an EV for the next family car. I really would like a van but there aren't exactly lots of EV Van choices in the US. It might be a budget item for next year so I haven't started seriously looking up models yet.

I wish we had a world of EV station wagons and vans instead of SUVs everywhere.

The Subaru Trailseeker and Toyota bZ Woodland are essentially station wagons.

The Kia EV9 and Hyundai Ionic 9 are so enormous, that they might as well be vans.

You can always get an electric Ford Transit, but they have short range and are cargo only.

 

[RetMD21]

The Model Y L might work. Unfortunately the Kia PV5 isn't available in the US

 

[Fermion]

There was the ID buzz but it was paused or discontinued.

One day some smart fella at Ford or elsewhere is going to realize a hybrid van would sell like hotcakes, giving you the quiet fuel efficient delivery range for local stuff and eliminating the range anxiety for longer hauls.

 

[RetMD21]

There was the ID buzz but it was paused or discontinued.

One day some smart fella at Ford or elsewhere is going to realize a hybrid van would sell like hotcakes, giving you the quiet fuel efficient delivery range for local stuff and eliminating the range anxiety for longer hauls.

doesn't Toyota have an excellent hybrid minivan?

 

[Errollyn]

I'm in line to buy a Rivian R2. The R2 officially went on sale on June 9th, and the wait list is long (I've heard 400,000-500,000 reservations). I reserved mine in November 2024, so I think I should get it this year. I opted for the Performance Launch Edition to replace my 2021 Model 3. It's too much money, but could end up being my last vehicle, so what the hell.