Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

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But you're right about the comparatively incremental nature of things... and not just in transportation. So much of life was utterly transformed between 1880 and 1930, whereas over the past 50 years... well, let's leave it at that. There's a cultural transformation too. I think that 100-150 years ago, people were more forward-looking and more receptive to innovations. Today, they wonder about the sense of fixing something that's not palpably broken.

Really we haven't been forward thinking.... 🤔. AI might politely disagree with that thought.

Dear ChatGTP
Some people think we have not had a lot of innovations over the last 50 years can you provide a list of big innovations over the last 50 years and where we are headed in the 50 perhaps.

ChatGPT said:

Certainly! Here's a summary of major innovations over the last 50 years and a look at where we might be headed in the next 50:
https://chatgpt.com/
Innovations of the Past 50 Years (1975-2025):
Technology and Computing
Personal Computers (1970s): Revolutionized work and home life.

Internet and World Wide Web (1980s–1990s): Transformed communication and commerce.

Smartphones (2007): Combined computing and communication in your pocket.
GPS Technology: Enabled precise location tracking for personal and industrial use.
Artificial Intelligence: From neural networks to chatbots, AI has transformed industries.
Cloud Computing: Provided scalable, remote storage and computational power.
Social Media Platforms: Changed how we interact and share information.

Medicine and Biotechnology
Genetic Engineering and CRISPR: Enabled gene editing for research and medicine.
mRNA Vaccines: Revolutionized vaccine development (e.g., COVID-19).
Artificial Organs: Extended life expectancy and improved quality of life.
Telemedicine: Expanded access to healthcare.

Energy and Environment
Solar and Wind Power: Became cost-effective renewable energy sources.
Electric Vehicles: Reduced dependence on fossil fuels.
LED Lighting: Drastically cut energy usage.

Space Exploration
SpaceX and Private Spaceflight: Reduced costs and increased access to space.
Mars Rovers and Probes: Advanced knowledge of other planets.
James Webb Space Telescope: Gave deeper insights into the universe.

Everyday Life
E-Commerce: Revolutionized shopping (e.g., Amazon).
Streaming Services: Changed how we consume media (e.g., Netflix).
Wearable Tech: Provided health insights through devices like smartwatches.

The Next 50 Years (2025-2075):
Technology and AI
General AI: Could surpass human-level cognition in many fields.
Quantum Computing: Solving complex problems in seconds that now take years.
Brain-Computer Interfaces: Direct interaction with technology via thoughts.

Medicine and Longevity
Personalized Medicine: Treatments tailored to individual genetics.
Anti-Aging Therapies: Extending healthy life spans.
Advanced Prosthetics and Neural Implants: Restoring mobility and cognition.

Energy and Environment
Fusion Energy: Providing nearly limitless, clean energy.
Carbon Capture: Large-scale reversal of environmental damage.
Circular Economy: Waste becomes a raw material for other industries.

Space Exploration
Interplanetary Colonization: Settlements on the Moon and Mars.
Asteroid Mining: Harvesting resources from space.
Deep Space Exploration: Discovering habitable exoplanets.

Everyday Life
Autonomous Transportation: Driverless cars, drones, and even flying taxis.
Smart Cities: Fully integrated urban planning for efficiency and sustainability.
Immersive Virtual Reality: Blurring the line between digital and physical worlds.
The pace of innovation continues to accelerate, driven by cross-disciplinary research, increasing connectivity, and new tools. The next 50 years could bring unprecedented changes to how we live, work, and understand the universe. Let me know if you'd like more depth on any specific area!
https://chatgpt.com/
Sincerely your friend ChatGTP.......
We have arrived......LOL
 
Hmmm Imagine if we had stuck with electric vehicles......

Here's an imaginative scenario exploring what might have happened if electric cars had remained the dominant vehicle of choice in the early 20th century:


A World Where Electric Cars Became the Standard

Infrastructure and Energy Development

  1. Early Electrification:
    • Governments and private industries would have prioritized expanding the electric grid nationwide, including rural areas, to support charging stations.
    • Innovations in battery technology, such as lightweight, long-lasting batteries, might have emerged much earlier, perhaps by the 1930s or 1940s.
  2. Renewable Energy Revolution:
    • The need to power electric vehicles might have spurred the early development of renewable energy sources like wind, solar, and hydroelectric power, reducing reliance on fossil fuels from the start.
  3. Urban Design:
    • Cities might have been designed with integrated charging infrastructure, leading to fewer gas stations and cleaner urban environments.

Environmental Impact

  1. Reduced Carbon Emissions:
    • Without widespread gasoline use, the world might have avoided much of the carbon emissions that contributed to climate change. Air and water pollution from oil drilling, refining, and spills would also have been minimized.
  2. Conservation of Natural Resources:
    • The demand for oil might have remained focused on industrial applications, reducing the strain on global petroleum reserves.

Technological Advances

  1. Battery Innovations:
    • With a century of focused research, we might have advanced beyond lithium-ion batteries to something like ultra-light, fast-charging solid-state batteries decades earlier.
    • Wireless charging technologies, integrated into roads and parking spaces, might have been commonplace by the mid-20th century.
  2. Electric-Powered Society:
    • The dominance of electric cars could have spurred advancements in other electric transportation, such as high-speed rail networks, electric planes, and electric ships.

Economic and Social Shifts

  1. Different Geopolitical Dynamics:
    • Oil-producing regions like the Middle East might not have gained the economic and geopolitical significance they did. Instead, nations rich in materials for battery production, such as lithium and nickel, might have played larger roles.
    • Wars and conflicts over oil might have been avoided or significantly reduced.
  2. Job Markets:
    • Entire industries around gasoline-powered cars, such as oil refining and engine manufacturing, might not have developed, but new jobs in battery manufacturing and electric grid expansion would have emerged.
  3. Consumer Experience:
    • Electric cars were quiet, clean, and easy to maintain. Their dominance might have eliminated the stigma around electric vehicles and changed the car culture, focusing more on efficiency than raw power and speed.

Challenges of an Electric-First World

  1. Mining Impacts:
    • The demand for battery materials (lithium, cobalt, nickel) could have caused earlier and more extensive environmental and social impacts from mining.
  2. Dependence on Electricity:
    • Societies would have faced greater vulnerability to power outages and grid instability without alternative fuel sources.

Where We'd Be Today

  • Autonomous Vehicles: Electric cars, integrated with advanced AI, could have become the norm decades earlier.
  • Climate Change Mitigation: Global warming might be less severe, with cleaner energy dominating the 20th century.
  • A Different Automotive Industry: Iconic gasoline car brands like Ford, GM, and Ferrari might have become pioneers in electric technology instead.
This alternate reality underscores how early decisions in technology adoption can have ripple effects across history, shaping our environment, economies, and societies.
 
LAS VEGAS (AP) — One person died and seven others were injured Wednesday when a Tesla Cybertruck that appeared to be carrying fireworks caught fire and exploded outside President-elect Donald Trump’s Las Vegas hotel, authorities said.

Las Vegas Metropolitan Police and Clark County Fire Department officials told a news conference that a person died inside the futuristic-looking pickup truck and they were working to get the body out. Seven people nearby had minor injuries and several were taken to a hospital.

The fire in the valet area of the Trump International Hotel Las Vegas was reported at 8:40 a.m., a county spokesperson said in a statement.

According to a law enforcement official, the truck was rented via the Turo app and appeared to have a load of fireworks. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.
 
Interesting that no one mentions that the truck that killed all the people in New Orleans was an F150 Lightening.

On X it is being reported that the cyber truck did not just happen to catch fire while carrying fireworks. It was loaded to be a truck bomb and it is being said that the structure of the cyber truck was strong ebough to contain and direct the blast up. Tesla has stated that the telemetry from the truck was normal up to the explosion.
 
It was not by accident that it was a Tesla that blew up in front of that particular hotel. There is some symbolism there.
 
It was not by accident that it was a Tesla that blew up in front of that particular hotel. There is some symbolism there.
We're a little off the topic of EV models but the sheriff pointed it that the exterior of the truck was intact and the blast was directed upward leaving the door to the hotel with intact glass. There were mortars,gasoline, and campstove fuel in the back of the truck. The EV battery wasn't involved but it sure seems likely that the location and vehicle were chosen for a reason. Sad.
 
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I guess the next time someone tries blowing up the front of a building they won’t try using a Cybertruck.
 
It was not by accident that it was a Tesla that blew up in front of that particular hotel. There is some symbolism there.

The strength of the Cybertruck may have saved some lives and prevented nearby damage. Certainly it was great advertising for Tesla.

Perhaps, the Law of Unintended Consequences has struck again.
 
According to Reuters, Scandinavia is maintaining its obsession with EVs. Based on registration data as of today,
Nine out of ten new cars sold in Norway last year were powered by battery only ... placing the country within reach of its target of only adding cars that are electric on the road by 2025.
Top-selling brands were Tesla, ... Volkswagen, and Toyota.
 
Was curious so I looked...
The average American traveled 1.98 times more miles on the road each year than the average resident of France, 2.06 times more than the average German, and 2.23 times more than the average person in Great Britain. Residents of those countries often enjoy communities where more destinations can be accessed on foot, by public transportation, or by intercity rail.
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I really have no problem with all the people who love their EVs.. I am glad for you... I just do not think it will become the majority of vehicles in my lifetime... heck, probably not a big pct. either...
It’s hard to make tens of trillions of dollars of investments in vehicles and infrastructure obsolete. That’s in the US alone. The owners of that stuff get upset when you tell them that it will be worthless.

Personal automobiles in the US alone are probably worth $5 trillion (300 million vehicles X $15K).
 
Interesting that no one mentions that the truck that killed all the people in New Orleans was an F150 Lightening.

On X it is being reported that the cyber truck did not just happen to catch fire while carrying fireworks. It was loaded to be a truck bomb and it is being said that the structure of the cyber truck was strong ebough to contain and direct the blast up. Tesla has stated that the telemetry from the truck was normal up to the explosion.
Yea, I saw one of the spokespeople even say that the side of the Cyber truck looked fine... you could not tell that there was an explosion... impressive..

Then again, maybe too strong if you get hit by one...
 

Tesla posts rare annual sales drop

By Emma W. Thorne, Editor at LinkedIn News

Grim news for Tesla: The automaker's annual global deliveries fell last year for the first time in more than a decade. That's despite a flurry of end-of-year financing and leasing deals meant to juice business. Tesla sold a total 1.79 million vehicles in 2024 — below the prior year's 1.81 million. Analysts had expected that figure to stay essentially flat. The Elon Musk-led firm also missed on deliveries for the quarter ending Dec. 31, notching 495,570 instead of the 512,277 analysts had projected. Despite the global miss, on Friday Tesla said its 2024 China sales rose 8.8% to a record high.
 
Was curious so I looked...

View attachment 53613

As far as EVs go I can attest to the advantages of living in a smaller country with good public transport and EV charging infrastructure, at least for those that can charge at home. Still a way to go adding more public charge points for those that don't have a driveway and home charger.

I have an EV with 300 mile range and in 2024 did just short of 5,000 miles and used public charge points less than a dozen times. Even when we had an ICE or hybrid car we used trains to do the very long trips (>6 hours each way). In 2024 we took trains to London, to Bruges, to Portsmouth and to Aberdeen.
 

Tesla posts rare annual sales drop​

By Emma W. Thorne, Editor at LinkedIn News

Grim news for Tesla: The automaker's annual global deliveries fell last year for the first time in more than a decade. That's despite a flurry of end-of-year financing and leasing deals meant to juice business. Tesla sold a total 1.79 million vehicles in 2024 — below the prior year's 1.81 million. Analysts had expected that figure to stay essentially flat. The Elon Musk-led firm also missed on deliveries for the quarter ending Dec. 31, notching 495,570 instead of the 512,277 analysts had projected. Despite the global miss, on Friday Tesla said its 2024 China sales rose 8.8% to a record high.
Expect sales to continue to miss targets due to the polarizing effect of the CEO. Time will tell if there's a counteracting force going on with that as well though.
 
It would be interesting to see if someone could dive in a figure out the sales decline...

Was it the loss of subsidies? (they did lose them? Right?)

Were the models getting 'old'?

Were the prices still too high?

Did other EVs sales take away from Tesla?

Do people not like Musk for political reasons? (I doubt it but who knows)...

Or is this a sign that what some say... that EVs are not going to be a big part of the market...

I do not know...
 
IMO, Tesla does need to redo its older models such as the Model S and the Model 3. It’s latest new models such, the Cybertruck is too radical in design to be very popular. Just my opinion.
 
IMO, Tesla does need to redo its older models such as the Model S and the Model 3. It’s latest new models such, the Cybertruck is too radical in design to be very popular. Just my opinion.

IMO, even when they re-do a model, I have to stare at it for a few minutes to determine what changed. For a Tesla fan, it's probably obvious, but for everyone else, it usually isn't.
 
The exterior is not going to change much at all because they are already streamlined to minimize wind resistance. Later models are generally more computing power, higher res cameras, etc.

A lot of new features are provided via software and these are available to older models as well.

So even though I have an “older” 2022 Model X, I have a lot of the latest features. However I don’t have the latest computer hardware or cameras. So I will probably end up with a slightly less capable version of the FSD software.
 
Ford and GM reported the best sales in 2024 since 2019, the last year before the pandemic.

The sales growth was driven in part by growth in EV sales for both manufacturers.

GM reported 2024 sales of more than 2.7 million vehicles, up 4.3% from a year earlier. The automaker sold 2.9 million units in 2019.

GM said sales were driven by increases in all four of its U.S. brands as well as a roughly 50% increase in sales of electric vehicles to more than 114,400 units.

It was a similar trend at Ford, which reported a notable increase in sales of its “electrified” vehicles, including EVs and hybrids.

Ford on Friday reported 2024 sales of 2.08 million vehicles, up from just under 2 million in 2023. In 2019, the automaker sold 2.42 million vehicles in the U.S. For the fourth quarter, Ford reported an 8.8% year-over-year increase in sales to 530,660 vehicles sold.




That automaker said full-year sales of its vehicles with traditional internal combustion engines increased 0.2% compared to 2023, while sales of electrified vehicles increased 38.3% year over year.


Let's see, Ford had a 4% sales increase from 2023 to 2024. ICE sales increase .2% while EV sales increased 38.3%.

GM had a 200k increase in sales from 2023 to 2024, a 4.3% increase. But over half of those 200k increase consisted of EVs.

Looks like EV sales more than pulled their weight for these companies.
 
It’s hard to make tens of trillions of dollars of investments in vehicles and infrastructure obsolete. That’s in the US alone. The owners of that stuff get upset when you tell them that it will be worthless.

Personal automobiles in the US alone are probably worth $5 trillion (300 million vehicles X $15K).

If they stopped selling EVs tomorrow, all cars currently on the road, both gas engine and EVs, all would continue to run, for years if not decades.

How does infrastructure become obsolete? Are we going to let our roads fall apart, stop maintaining them because no new ICE vehicles are sold?

The sensationalist rhetoric doesn't help the debate.
 
If they stopped selling EVs tomorrow, all cars currently on the road, both gas engine and EVs, all would continue to run, for years if not decades.

How does infrastructure become obsolete? Are we going to let our roads fall apart, stop maintaining them because no new ICE vehicles are sold?

The sensationalist rhetoric doesn't help the debate.
If such a change happens too quickly, there would be huge losses in gas station and refinery infrastructure, used car values, pipelines, etc. As a behavioral phenomenon, EV conversion is the sort of thing that could become a fashion trend and flip quickly.

When dealing with trillions of dollars, even a small possibility of loss produces large reactions, especially in industries that have dominated the US economy and political system for 75 years.
 
The exterior is not going to change much at all because they are already streamlined to minimize wind resistance. Later models are generally more computing power, higher res cameras, etc.

A lot of new features are provided via software and these are available to older models as well.

So even though I have an “older” 2022 Model X, I have a lot of the latest features. However I don’t have the latest computer hardware or cameras. So I will probably end up with a slightly less capable version of the FSD software.
Isn't this a problem?

A LOT of money is spent on design because that is what most people make buying decisions on... I am still shocked when someone will see a car and say 'it looks like a Jaguar' or a BMW... to say that they are 'buying up' when they are not...

Now, the Gen Zs might not care as much since they do not seem to be getting drivers licenses... but most folks want design...
 
So even though I have an “older” 2022 Model X, I have a lot of the latest features. However I don’t have the latest computer hardware or cameras. So I will probably end up with a slightly less capable version of the FSD software.
In my book a 2022 is still a very contemporary automobile. Even my 2019 vehicle is still hanging on to being contemporary. Though in 2025, I may yank that term from it.

IMO, as the EV tech changes it will result in better ways to design a more comfortable and usable vehicle. How about more room in the rear seat area for adult sized children for example? Or more head room for we tall folk. Or a bigger Frunk up front? I don’t know for sure. I simply see expanding opportunities for new car design improvements as the EV tech improves. That and the high depreciation rate of new EVs would push me into the market for a 1-3 year old EV, and not a new one. YMMV.
 
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