Electric Vehicles - Models Discussion

[Out of Steam]

In fact, you could double the price and pay the 27.5% tariff, and it would still undercut every EV for sale in the United States

Given production capabilities and costs for EV production in China, a 27.5% tariff would barely be a speed bump.

 

[homestead]

Here is a youtube review video of a Chinese EV model. Video is kind of long but it has labeled tabs so you can find the areas you are interested in without watching the entire video.
The reviewer likes the car.

 

[Zathras]

Chinese cars are sold in Asia, Australia and as I recall, Europe. Oh, and South America and Mexico soon if not already.

Chinese cars aren’t a direct competitor in the USA’s car market.
However, in the much larger worldwide market Chinese cars and EV’s are impacting domestic auto’s market share.

 

[RetMD21]

They never shared details on the Mexico-Model 2-$25K car and you're not going to see those kinds of details in advance from any manufacturer - Osborne effect. But they reported they've dropped plans for the Model 2, and it appears they'd rather go straight to the Cybercab and bypass a cheaper human driven model.
..........

There have also been reports of a cheaper model on existing production lines, with some design features from the Model 2, but it would be based on the Model 3 and/or Y with some minor production equipment modifications. Nothing firmed up there.

So you are saying that this substantially smaller ( 3988 mm ) car is a model 3 variant with minor production equipment modifications?

MSN

 

[RetMD21]

Here is a youtube review video of a Chinese EV model. Video is kind of long but it has labeled tabs so you can find the areas you are interested in without watching the entire video.
The reviewer likes the car.

Jim Farley CEO of Ford has been driving one (Xaomi SU7) in the US and says he really likes it

 

[Midpack]

So you are saying that this substantially smaller ( 3988 mm ) car is a model 3 variant with minor production equipment modifications?

MSN

No. You clipped out the second paragraph to quote (?) where I addressed what’s now being referred to as Model Q. Time will tell…

My third paragraph was from an earlier Tesla report where they said they weren’t going to produce the $25K “Model 2” after saying they would for years. Would do what I mentioned in paragraph three instead. Model Q is the latest rumor, might be the Cybercab, might not.

If you think you can take Tesla plans as gospel, ask a second Gen Roadster depositor about that…

 

[JoeWras]

Jim Farley CEO of Ford has been driving one (Xaomi SU7) in the US and says he really likes it

I have a friend who worked for one of the big three (starting in the 80s). He told me about the "lots of shame" the automakers had. Basically, workers driving their brand had lots close in to the buildings, the competition was far away. You have a Toyota? Go to the back and take a walk.

I thought this was stupid. Just another way to put their head in the sand. In my opinion, the workers should be required to drive the competition for at least 2 weeks per year, with cars provided by the corporation for this loan period.

In other words, I like what this CEO is doing.

 

[surprising]

Our last EV was a new 2021 VW ID.4. Prior to that was a new 2016 Tesla Model S. Sold both within a year or so of ownership. I'll try again around 2026. Liked both cars but the range and charging infrastructure just wasn't there. With the Tesla it was like driving the future but then one long distance road trip was enough to realize this wasn't going to work for trips. 5 years later and the tripping experience with the ID.4 was much the same. Just taking simple 180 mile trips between Portland and Seattle required stopping about 4 times to charge. In my diesel Ram 1500 I drove to Seattle, drove around there for a week, and drove back to Portland and still had 1/8 of tank left.

 

[Midpack]

Wow. I don’t take many long trips, but Tesla superchargers have been 100% reliable for me since I bought Nov 2023 - yes, I realize they’re only 99%+ uptime, and that varies by region. As for range, I usually only drive about 150-180 miles between charging sessions to be conservative, but I could drive further if needed.

There is a big difference in Tesla charging infrastructure uptime and all others. I have a buddy with an Ioniq 5 and he’s had lots of issues with public charging. There are also lots of road trip charging horror stories on YouTube using non-Tesla chargers.

Tesla Supercharger Network achieves 99.97% average uptime in 2023

As per Tesla’s 2023 Impact Report, the Supercharger Network was able to achieve an average uptime of 99.97% worldwide.

www.teslarati.com

 

[homestead]

Just taking simple 180 mile trips between Portland and Seattle required stopping about 4 times to charge.

Wondering why you can't make 180 miles with only 1 stop?

 

[Texas Proud]

Wondering why you can't make 180 miles with only 1 stop?

I am wondering also... not sure of the range but maybe no stops?

 

[audreyh1]

Our last EV was a new 2021 VW ID.4. Prior to that was a new 2016 Tesla Model S. Sold both within a year or so of ownership. I'll try again around 2026. Liked both cars but the range and charging infrastructure just wasn't there. With the Tesla it was like driving the future but then one long distance road trip was enough to realize this wasn't going to work for trips. 5 years later and the tripping experience with the ID.4 was much the same. Just taking simple 180 mile trips between Portland and Seattle required stopping about 4 times to charge. In my diesel Ram 1500 I drove to Seattle, drove around there for a week, and drove back to Portland and still had 1/8 of tank left.

Since mid-2022 I’ve taken 4 3000+ mile trips in my Model X and the charging network was available and worked like a champ, and 3 of the 4 trips were heading out west where the charging network is much sparser compared to the eastern US,

I easily do over 180 miles on a charge, so I wouldn’t have had to charge mid trip at all in your example.

 

[ejman]

Our last EV was a new 2021 VW ID.4. Prior to that was a new 2016 Tesla Model S. Sold both within a year or so of ownership. I'll try again around 2026. Liked both cars but the range and charging infrastructure just wasn't there. With the Tesla it was like driving the future but then one long distance road trip was enough to realize this wasn't going to work for trips. 5 years later and the tripping experience with the ID.4 was much the same. Just taking simple 180 mile trips between Portland and Seattle required stopping about 4 times to charge. In my diesel Ram 1500 I drove to Seattle, drove around there for a week, and drove back to Portland and still had 1/8 of tank left.

I'm probably misreading your post but did you really have to stop every 45 miles to charge the ID4 (180/4=45)? Or perhaps it was 180+180+ say 100 miles driving around Seattle (460/4=115) that still sounds kind of low mileage in between charging stops. I see the ID4 is rated at 206 miles for the small battery, 291 for the larger one.

 

[Alan]

Wondering why you can't make 180 miles with only 1 stop?

I am wondering the same. I have an id.3 and make 180 miles each way 2 or 3 times a year to visit my wife’s sister in Edinburgh. We can do it comfortably without charging but my back and bladder require a stop so we usually stop for a break and charge up on route, lots of reliable fast chargers available including a bank of Tesla chargers that are available to the public.

 

[RetMD21]

No. You clipped out the second paragraph to quote (?) where I addressed what’s now being referred to as Model Q. Time will tell…

My third paragraph was from an earlier Tesla report where they said they weren’t going to produce the $25K “Model 2” after saying they would for years. Would do what I mentioned in paragraph three instead. Model Q is the latest rumor, might be the Cybercab, might not.

If you think you can take Tesla plans as gospel, ask a second Gen Roadster depositor about that…

Yeah I don't care about a cheaper model 3 with heated seats deleted. I thought you were making some distinction between the possibly abandoned model 2 and the Model Q. There is little information on either unfortunately.

 

[Zathras]

When we first started driving electric we drove a lot more than in our previous gas cars.
The longest trip was a 5500 mile round trip from Minnesota to California, then back via Arizona & New Mexico.

Best road trip I ever took

 

[RetMD21]

I wouldn't be driving an EV if I couldn't easily do a route like Seattle to Portland without stops.

 

[RetMD21]

I have been a bit of a skeptic of Full Self Driving but 13.2.2 is making me a fan. It made only one mistake in a 105 mile trip Monday. We were in the wrong lane to make our left turn so I took over and did a quick u turn to get back on track.

 

[audreyh1]

I have been a bit of a skeptic of Full Self Driving but 13.2.2 is making me a fan. It made only one mistake in a 105 mile trip Monday. We were in the wrong lane to make our left turn so I took over and did a quick u turn to get back on track.

Wow, that’s fantastic!

We’re still waiting on 12.6 here (HW3) and I’m a bit nervous because I’ve read a lot of complaints particularly about the much closer following distance. I prefer to follow at max.

 

[Midpack]

Yeah I don't care about a cheaper model 3 with heated seats deleted. I thought you were making some distinction between the possibly abandoned model 2 and the Model Q. There is little information on either unfortunately.

Tesla is known for a combination of misinformation and no information (Osborne effect) and just changing direction. I am sure they meant to produce a Model 2 using the unboxed method, but now it appears the smaller Tesla may be the Cybercab. You can read up on Tesla daily like I do, but you never really know exactly what’s coming until it happens. Giga Mexico may never happen, or maybe some day. Model Q is another recent rumor, appears to be the decontented Model 3 or Y but who knows…

 

[reneeh63]

Wow. I don’t take many long trips, but Tesla superchargers have been 100% reliable for me since I bought Nov 2023 - yes, I realize they’re only 99%+ uptime, and that varies by region. As for range, I usually only drive about 150-180 miles between charging sessions to be conservative, but I could drive further if needed.

There is a big difference in Tesla charging infrastructure uptime and all others. I have a buddy with an Ioniq 5 and he’s had lots of issues with public charging. There are also lots of road trip charging horror stories on YouTube using non-Tesla chargers.

Tesla Supercharger Network achieves 99.97% average uptime in 2023

As per Tesla’s 2023 Impact Report, the Supercharger Network was able to achieve an average uptime of 99.97% worldwide.

www.teslarati.com

Hyundai has a new agreement with Tesla about using their chargers and those with Ioniq 5's and 6's (maybe some other models) are said to be getting free adapters from Hyundai in Q1 - that'll open up a lot of possibilities for public charging.

So glad I just got my Ioniq 6 - a gorgeous red sedan (never liked SUVs or had any use for them).

 

[Midpack]

I have been a bit of a skeptic of Full Self Driving but 13.2.2 is making me a fan. It made only one mistake in a 105 mile trip Monday. We were in the wrong lane to make our left turn so I took over and did a quick u turn to get back on track.

I have to agree. 13.2.2 is FAR better than the 12.X variant I had for 3 months in early 2024. I have 13.2.2 for another couple weeks before my free trial expires. DW HATED riding with me using 12.X and wanted it turned off, she tolerates 13.2.2.

 

[Texas Proud]

I have been a bit of a skeptic of Full Self Driving but 13.2.2 is making me a fan. It made only one mistake in a 105 mile trip Monday. We were in the wrong lane to make our left turn so I took over and did a quick u turn to get back on track.

Just to check.... you had a destination entered and the car missed a turn?

I wonder what it would have done if you had not intervened... I would assume recalculate but who knows...

 

[Midpack]

Hyundai has a new agreement with Tesla about using their chargers and those with Ioniq 5's and 6's (maybe some other models) are said to be getting free adapters from Hyundai in Q1 - that'll open up a lot of possibilities for public charging.

So glad I just got my Ioniq 6 - a gorgeous red sedan (never liked SUVs or had any use for them).

Unless something has changed, non Teslas will have access to many but not all Tesla superchargers. And there was reportedly premium rates (30%?) for non Teslas - as it should be since all the funds to build the network have come exclusively from Tesla owners until now.

 

[surprising]

I'm probably misreading your post but did you really have to stop every 45 miles to charge the ID4 (180/4=45)? Or perhaps it was 180+180+ say 100 miles driving around Seattle (460/4=115) that still sounds kind of low mileage in between charging stops. I see the ID4 is rated at 206 miles for the small battery, 291 for the larger one.

At least 3 times on the road not including full charge at home before we left. I *think* there was another charge in Seattle but my memory is spotty, so 3 or 4 charges on the road
1) Halfway between Pdx and Sea, getting close to Centralia where there is Electrify America and less than half charge left. Not knowing where we'll charge in Seattle, stop now to ensure we have enough juice to arrive in Seattle and not have to worry about finding charge right away. Centralia EA had 4 chargers - two had broken handles, 1 wouldn't initiate charge, and the other was occupied, so had to wait longer than normal to charge.
2) Get to seattle, drive around a couple days, start getting low and wondering where we can charge. Lucky for us there was an VW dealership where we were and they allowed us to use their charger. It took hours but not a big deal as we weren't driving anywhere.
3) Drive more around seattle, then head home. Stop again in centralia to charge up. I don't recall the details but probably it said we'd have 10-20% if we waited to get home and that was too close for comfort for me to not stop.

My 2021 ID.4 Pro S had 240 mile range I believe. I sound negative but I really am pro EV. Ever since I got my 2013 Chevy Volt, I was hooked. That had 40 miles EV range before the gas generator kicked in. I didn't use a drop of gas for over a year (except when it forced it to run during extreme cold). Dealer was going to fill it up when I bought it and I said don't bother. I mainly drove it to/from work and charged at home.

That led to buying a Tesla in 2016. When Tesla released autopilot and all Tesla's had free supercharging, I was really excited to travel the country for free, autopilot doing most of the driving, etc. I did one long trip pdx to napa with my family of 4. Back then the supercharger network wasn't so good but was fine for getting from A to B along major highways. The main issue was our Airbnb had no exterior plug and was quite a ways from the nearest supercharger at Petaluma. So I had to factor how many miles to get from AirBnB to Petaluma, charge there, and then lose a bunch of charge just getting back to the Airbnb. Those early Teslas had vicious vampire drain too so it lost charge just sitting at the Airbnb. It was far from convenient and added stress and wasted time to a family vacation.

Tesla opening up superchargers to everyone is a big plus, and I think overall charging situation is so much better now with lots of options. We want to snowbird to the south in retirement and I would love to do it in an EV.