ER and the value of money

[Route246]

I've been retired almost 2 years now. Retired at 51. It's interesting how my relationship with money has changed since retiring. When working, I had serious heartburn with any kind of spending. I just wanted to save save save. Looking back, I realize how crazy I acted because I had a really large salary and we could afford pretty much anything and still save quite a bit. Now that I'm retired I don't seem to have so much trouble spending, even though there is no wage income coming in. Maybe it's because I have a clear picture of our financial status and can logically see that we can afford to spend on things.

On the flip side, I struggle a bit with the value or purpose of money. When working, there was a clear cause/effect relationship. I used my education and experience and whatever else to provide a service to my employer, and I received compensation for it. I did something tangible to deserve that money. Now I do nothing except occasionally click buy/sell on a screen and watch my net worth go up or down. There's no sense of pride or accomplishment. Even though I have a lot and the gains so far are significantly higher than my wage income, it doesn't feel like I'm doing anything worthy for that money.

Anyone else have a similar relationship with money since ERing? How have you coped with it?

Yes, but I did not ER, I "L"R'ed but I have the exact same experience.

One thing that happened was I started an options wheel strategy on about 2.2M in my IRA and have cleared about 340K in options premiums in 9 months since I self-unemployed myself and I have zero earned incoming coming in. This is in IRA accounts so basically "locked up" and it is enjoyable to be accumulating these options premiums, all tax-deferred.

That said, this wheel strategy has allowed me to retain my feeling for the value of money. But, I get it, without that paycheck generated from providing goods and services things get a little distorted in my brain.

 

[old medic]

We spent the majority of our medium income working years struggling with little to no savings, 2 kids, mortgage, trying to keep food on the table and wheels under us. Things improved after the nest got empty. Then selling the house, downsizing debt free (mostly) and we are in better shape now than we ever dreamed. Both retired at 58 5 years apart with DW pension starting in Oct.
Now its nice to just to say I like that and know we can just write a check for it.... Not that we do or else we would have an early 70s Corvette Convertible to play around with.

 

[Flieger]

Yes, but I did not ER, I "L"R'ed but I have the exact same experience.

One thing that happened was I started an options wheel strategy on about 2.2M in my IRA and have cleared about 340K in options premiums in 9 months since I self-unemployed myself and I have zero earned incoming coming in. This is in IRA accounts so basically "locked up" and it is enjoyable to be accumulating these options premiums, all tax-deferred.

That said, this wheel strategy has allowed me to retain my feeling for the value of money. But, I get it, without that paycheck generated from providing goods and services things get a little distorted in my brain.

Not to derail the thread, but would love to hear more on the "wheel strategy" that nets almost $36k/month!

Flieger

 

[Midpack]

I share some of the OP’s “not worthy” sentiment, but I know there’s nothing I can do about it (other than charitable giving) and it doesn’t bother me much. We’re at a point we don’t contribute to society but we still take - but we knew that was the bargain during our working years. Many on this thread are not commenting on that (central) point the OP made.

And to the other OP point, while we worked very hard and lived below our means for decades, it was easier mid 70’s and the decades that followed than generations that followed us. Opportunity isn’t nearly the same today, globalization is more of a factor, and change happens faster and faster? So we’re most grateful for what we were able to achieve, we don’t feel entitled even now as some here seem to.

 

[Koolau]

I share some of the OP’s “not worthy” sentiment, but I know there’s nothing I can do about it (other than charitable giving) and it doesn’t bother me much. We’re at a point we don’t contribute to society but we still take. Many on this thread are not commenting on that point the OP made.

And while we worked very hard and lived below our means for decades, it was easier mid 70’s and the decades that followed than generations that followed us. Opportunity isn’t the same today? So we’re most grateful for what we were able to achieve, we don’t feel entitled even now.

I suppose that my lack of "not worthy" sentiment is because I have very little "guilt" (might be the word) regarding my stewardship of money. I've certainly made more than my share of investing mistakes. And I have a few "regrets" about how I spent money. But, overall, I'm reasonably comfortable with my "place" in the economy. I feel that I've earned what I have - not just because I w*rked but because I was "careful" in most cases with what I had (have).

 

[sengsational]

and I was reasonably well compensated. Making so much money from the market feels like cheating to me.

It does have that valance with me too. Then I think that for 30 years, while I could spend, I didn't. But, 12 years out and with an all-years plan that appears to leave a lot on the table, does seem "too easy". Maybe when the next crash comes, I'll change my tune.

We’re at a point we don’t contribute to society but we still take.

But there is a contribution! You took some of your young person labor and saved it as an investment in productive companies. So right now, a little of that labor is being recognized. Savers "gave extra early", from a time perspective, so not applying your time now just balances out.

Beyond the fact that our savings are working for the benefit of society, a lot of us do things that benefit people, but without pay. For instance, I've been assisting in tens of thousands of beer selection decisions (mobile apps). Whatever we do in our spare time is often helping someone else, if we look closely.

 

[audreyh1]

A job is not the only way to contribute to “society”.

And we focus on our small sphere of influence - family, friends, organizations that matter to us.

 

[Midpack]

I wasn’t begrudging what any of us have accomplished, just where some fall on the gratitude vs entitlement continuum. What’s wrong with a little gratitude, costs nothing. Again, I think what we’ve achieved will be harder going for generations that have followed us…

 

[Gumby]

I share some of the OP’s “not worthy” sentiment, but I know there’s nothing I can do about it (other than charitable giving) and it doesn’t bother me much. We’re at a point we don’t contribute to society but we still take - but we knew that was the bargain during our working years. Many on this thread are not commenting on that (central) point the OP made.....

I was not born into the rentier class. I worked my way into it from a place so far down the ladder that you can't even see it from here. So, no, I don't feel the least bit guilty about making money off of my investments. How is it any different than receiving a pension from a place you worked for 30 years?

 

[marko]

A job is not the only way to contribute to “society”.

And we focus on our small sphere of influence - family, friends, organizations that matter to us.

Yes. And as I've aged my "contribution" to my local society is to employ as much household help as possible: weekly landscapers, house cleaners, pool maintenance, boat dock crew, car washers, etc etc.
(Not to mention home assistance for my disabled brother)

Yes, its $50 here and $100 there, and there every week but I'm adding to the paychecks of a dozen working people, keeping them employed.

 

[Gumby]

I wasn’t begrudging what any of us have accomplished, just where some fall on the gratitude vs entitlement continuum. What’s wrong with a little gratitude, costs nothing. Again, I think what we’ve achieved will be harder going for generations that have followed us…

Gratitude is quite a bit different from guilt. I'm very grateful, but not feeling guilty.

 

[jollystomper]

When I was working, I learned to take a balanced view of spending. We certainly saved and invested (and we were better savers than investors), but we did spend on things like family vacations. We did not BTD to Disney every year (we went twice, and both times were partially "subsidized" by a related work trip ), but a week at a beach or at a lake doing not much was always enjoyable (and for our kids, more memorable).

It helped that my Megacorp jobs always had opportunities for bonuses and/or commissions. We LBYM'ed below my base salary, and the additional bonus or commission we would have fun with 10-20% of it, and sock away the rest. Also, that extra pay came about as the result of me working to create (or participating in the creation of) "something" to benefit Megacorp and/or Megacorp clients, so I certainly felt the money was earned (though the amounts at times still surprised me ).

In retirement I feel a sense not so much of accomplishment, or "unworthiness", but much more of gratitude, towards what we have. I worked hard (and smart) in a job and career I enjoyed, but I never assumed I could FIRE, in fact I did not really think about until I was in my 50s. I was not in a rush to leave my job and career. FIRE is a rare feat, and at times I am still amazed that we achieved it.

We do not flaunt our wealth, and we understand every situation is different. But, we are not going to apologize or feel bad or "unworthy" for our current situation. Too many people seem to look to others to validate how "well off" they are, or to validate how they are "victims". We are more than content with what we have .

 

[Koolau]

I wasn’t begrudging what any of us have accomplished, just where some fall on the gratitude vs entitlement continuum. What’s wrong with a little gratitude, costs nothing. Again, I think what we’ve achieved will be harder going for generations that have followed us…

Oh, I still give thanks for the j*b I found (found me??). I consider it one of the miracles granted to me. It's a good story I have alluded to here.

I'm very grateful for the ability I had to go to a good State university, a good high school, a decent elementary/middle school. I'm very grateful to my parents who loved me and encouraged me. I'm grateful to GF (now DW) who stayed with me through school.

I could fill a thread on the people and things and experiences I'm grateful for. I look at my time remaining (and perhaps my estate) as being a way to give back.

BUT while I'm very grateful for the way my life has turned out, I have little in the way of "guilt" or even regrets about the part I played in all of it. I recognize how dependent I was on people and circumstances and my higher power and yet accept that I lived up to a fair amount of my potential. I accept my Early Retirement as a precious gift that was granted to me at least partially through my own efforts. YMMV

 

[Midpack]

Gratitude is quite a bit different from guilt. I'm very grateful, but not feeling guilty.

I didn’t mention guilt. Gratitude, entitlement or somewhere in between. I assume most of us fall somewhere in between, though I have read posts that seem to embrace entitlement fully (not necessarily this thread, but over the years). ‘I earned what I have, with no help from anyone…’

 

[Koolau]

I didn’t mention guilt. Gratitude, entitlement or somewhere in between. I assume most of us fall somewhere in between, though I have read posts that seem to embrace entitlement fully (not necessarily this thread, but over the years). ‘I earned what I have, with no help from anyone…’

Yeah, no matter how hard any of us had it, NONE of us did it totally by ourselves. I w*rked hard but I readily acknowledge that I got a lot of help.

 

[Gumby]

I didn’t mention guilt. ...

No, you didn't. That's just the sense I got from reading the OPs "not worthy" sentence - that he was feeling some unwarranted guilt because he wasn't "working " for the money.

 

[Midpack]

No, you didn't. That's just the sense I got from reading the OPs "not worthy" sentence - that he was feeling some unwarranted guilt because he wasn't "working " for the money.

Fair point, TY.

 

[audreyh1]

I definitely experienced some “survivor’s guilt” when I first retired. I was gleeful that I no longer had to suffer the daily commute. At the same time I felt bad for all those folks still having to go to work every day.

I got over it.

 

[TickTock]

I share some of the OP’s “not worthy” sentiment, but I know there’s nothing I can do about it (other than charitable giving) and it doesn’t bother me much. We’re at a point we don’t contribute to society but we still take - but we knew that was the bargain during our working years. Many on this thread are not commenting on that (central) point the OP made.

I disagree with that central point. We are part-owners in businesses and also lenders; that contributes to society.

 

[jollystomper]

I disagree with that central point. We are part-owners in businesses and also lenders; that contributes to society.

And taxpayers. And potentially mentors, role models, advisors, volunteers, etc.

 

[Midpack]

And taxpayers.

That’s a very good point, TY.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Yes. And as I've aged my "contribution" to my local society is to employ as much household help as possible: weekly landscapers, house cleaners, pool maintenance, boat dock crew, car washers, etc etc.
(Not to mention home assistance for my disabled brother)

Yes, its $50 here and $100 there, and there every week but I'm adding to the paychecks of a dozen working people, keeping them employed.

Good point.