Evaluating Remodeling of a house/condo

[Jerry1]

We just bought a condo and it needs a lot of updating. We knew and accept this but I have a general question about where to draw the line on improvements. Generally, if I just go in and do whatever I want at the level I want, we'd spend upwards of $100K. Not that it wouldn't hurt a bit, but we can afford it. The question is, where do you recommend drawing the line. At $100K, I doubt that I could get my money back if I sell it, especially if I sell in less than 10 years. Another way to look at it is that I can live how I want for a reasonable cost. Using very crude estimates, assume I live there for 10 years and I put 100K into it and sell it for what I bought it for. At one level that's a 100K loss. At another level, I lived in a nice place for less than 1K per month (not including taxes and utilities). I could probably buff the place up and make it respectable for 50K (probably less) but I'd have to compromise on quality of materials and probably only repair and spruce up things like the kitchen and master bathroom and have carpet versus wood flooring and vinyl versus tile. But, it would certainly be clean and functional. So, go big or go good enough is the question me and DW are dealing with.

Here are some specific numbers from some quotes I got today. Master bath (new tile shower, tile floor, vanity, lighting . . .) $20K. Engineered wood flooring throughout with tile in the laundry room - $20K. Same contractor said he could refresh the bathroom (keep the shower, tile the floor, replace plumbing, install new lighting, new medium grade vanity and top) - about $5K Estimate for nice carpet throughout is $6k. So, $11K or $40K. Let's say the $11K goes to $15K because the laundry still needs a new floor and I'm sure there's a few more things that would be needed. So, $15K or $40K.

I'm assuming painting will run about $10K and I'm sure the kitchen will run another $40K with appliances being another $10K. Just guessing but I think a spruce up of the kitchen would be around 20K (paint existing cabinets, new counter tops, new floor, better lighting vs brand new cabinets, wood floor, better lighting . . .)

So, how do you think about large improvements of this nature? Consider resale or live your vision? Note, we're 64 and 69 and feel that it's likely we'd live there 10 years, maybe 15.

 

[rk911]

If money is no object and you're planning to live there for years then I'd remodel the condo to whatever suits you.

 

[Jerry1]

If money is no object and you're planning to live there for years then I'd remodel the condo to whatever suits you.

Money is never “no object”. $100K is doable, but it does cause one to pause and make sure I’m doing the right thing.

 

[rk911]

Money is never “no object”. $100K is doable, but it does cause one to pause and make sure I’m doing the right thing.

Since moving into our home in 1988 we have completely remodeled the interior of our entire home...one of the bathrooms twice...added a deck and a backyard shed. All paid for in cash and during that time our net worth grew. We have spent well in excess what the home is now worth (it's tripled in value since 1988) but we love our home and, hopefully, we have many more years here. In our view dollars well spent.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I have owned a total of eight houses and a two condos. I always hire out the painting, but when I was married, my husband and I always did the Pergo or laminated floors. That is not a difficult job to do at all.

As far as the kitchen, I paint the cupboards and then install granite countertops and tile backsplash. I always change out the hardware on the doors and drawers because that makes a big difference. I also change out the sink.

If I don’t want a bathtub in the bathroom, I install a really nice upgraded freestanding shower stall as well as a new toilet, vanity, sink, and faucets. I also install a new floor. Doing this in this manner saves a lot of money.

 

[2HOTinPHX]

Have you lived in condo before? I have heard depending on the build quality noise from neighbors could be an issue for some. Perhaps take a little time while planning the remodel to see if your happy there before you in invest more money into the place. I would start with a lower budget and increase as needed. Typically you will be over budget in the end anyways.
Wouldn't carpeting be better for sound insulation for all parties? We have tile floors throughout the house. I miss having the cushion of carpeting. Carpet also show less dust and particles than hardwood or tile floors. Lots of really nice carpet pattern and texture options out there to choose from. I would at least explore them.

Walk in showers are nice. Some of the new solid panel options versus real tile could be a lower cost and maintenance option.

So many choices it can be overwhelming. Take your time and enjoy the journey. Perhaps look at a sight like redfin for pictures of condos in your complex that have been listed there and see what others have done for some inspiration.

 

[FlaGator]

One of my friends calls this the "threshold question". Once you're already committed to a not-small amount of money that's larger than you would like, how much worse is it to spend more to get what you really want?

And then there is the regret-based "if I do the minimum, am I going to be unhappy as long as I'm here because I didn't get what I really wanted?"

When I've been able to afford it, I've been happy when I get what I really want. Although your residence is an investment, it's also your home and you expect to be there for some time to come.

These are often agonizing decisions for me. Good luck.

 

[Sunset]

How about making a list of the things that have the most impact to you. Then do them in a logical order (paint before new flooring as don't want paint on the flooring).

I wouldn't do all at once, unless you are going to live somewhere else.

Painting now before moving in is a lot easier than painting after you are settled in.

I will say, after living in a few condos, I could hear the neighbors when the kitchen cupboards slammed shut, kids ran down or jumped down the stairs, when people dropped stuff on the floor above me, and the neighbor using the toilet while talking on her phone. If you are half deaf it won't be so bad

 

[engineernerd]

It depends, of course. How important is it to you to get these things you prefer? Have you found in the past that having things that are OK but not what you REALLY wanted constantly niggles, or do you stop noticing fairly quickly?

I very much agree with 2HOTinPHX that before you sink a lot of money into your new condo it might make sense to just live in it for a while and see if you actually hate living there because of the neighbors or something else you can't control.

Also agree that hard flooring is a noise issue, unless your condo is freestanding (no shared walls or floors). If the units are stacked (one above the next) it may even be against the rules.

 

[RetiredHappy]

As far as the kitchen, I paint the cupboards and then install granite countertops and tile backsplash. I always change out the hardware on the doors and drawers because that makes a big difference. I also change out the sink.

If I don’t want a bathtub in the bathroom, I install a really nice upgraded freestanding shower stall as well as a new toilet, vanity, sink, and faucets. I also install a new floor. Doing this in this manner saves a lot of money.

Did you do all these on your own or did you hire a contractor to do so?

 

[Jerry1]

FWIW, the condo shares walls but not floors. We have a basement and a second level. It’s called a 1-1/2 story (similar to a cape cod) with the master bedroom on the main floor.

I agree with taking some time to do these things but the carpet really needs to go now. I wish carpet was cheap and I could just throw something down while I think about it, but it’s not. So, flooring and painting are our first priorities. Then the master bathroom and then the kitchen. How we handle those two spaces will be what makes the difference both financially and emotionally.

 

[Jerry1]

It depends, of course. How important is it to you to get these things you prefer? Have you found in the past that having things that are OK but not what you REALLY wanted constantly niggles, or do you stop noticing fairly quickly?

Things that I don’t like bug me far worse than DW. Nothing drastic but that is where a bit of the tension comes in. Still, I just feel like I shouldn’t make decisions as casually as I did before retirement. While the money is there, I obviously don’t have the income stream I had when working or time to recover from mistakes.

 

[steelpony10]

It sounds as if you bought the condo at a good value compared to others in the area that aren’t so run down?

So how much do you estimate you “saved” there?

Why not compromise with additional money if necessary to reach comparable current quality to other condos in your neighborhood?

We went whole hog on a lot and new build on a lake for a lifestyle. After 10+ years we may clear 3% a year after all expenses when we sell. My point is it isn’t a great investment by any means and if you check the math renting is most likely cheaper for 10-15 years.

 

[Jerry1]

It sounds as if you bought the condo at a good value compared to others in the area that aren’t so run down?

So how much do you estimate you “saved” there?

Hard to say. In our search for a new place, we were amazed at the condition of most houses versus the price they were getting. There were so few houses in good condition that it’s hard to say. However, our rough estimate is that if the house was fixed up nice, we may be able to get something like $50K more than we paid for it after some time (say five years) passes. It won’t get the premium that a ranch condo would get but it will get some benefit from having the master on the main floor.

 

[Lorenzo]

I can relate to your situation. Spending 100k on a condo you might live in for 10 years makes sense to me. What makes less sense is what DW and I have been doing. We lived in a condo for decades but always yearned to live in a single-family home and get into gardening and yard work. Something always got in the way of our plans--the economy, the covid era, etc. We finally ditched the condo for a home a couple of years ago, but a house in great condition is near a million dollars. New homes around here are all over a million. So we bought a house that had been renovated just enough to be liveable--not technically a fixer-upper--but in which just about everything could stand some remodeling/facelifting. We don't plan on living here more than 10 years. This phase of our lives is just to scratch this itch we have had and then move into something more like what retirees are supposed to live in. We are doing it totally wrong from a purely financial standpoint. But so what?

We have spent over 100k at this point, and there's no clear end in sight. The very first thing we needed to do was upgrade the power service from the once-standard 100 amps to the now-standard 200 amps: $7k. Then we cut down the dead pine trees and had the backyard cleared for that garden we have so long yearned for. We built a shed to hold those yard tools and our hobby gear. What we're doing is imprudent. When we move on, we will never be able to recover the amount we put into this house. But again, so what?

By comparison, spending 100k to get the condo renovated to the point where you feel happy and comfortable every day and aren't nagged by the feeling that you still have more work to do on it sounds great to me.

 

[aja8888]

Simple: if you are going to live there for the rest of your active life, go ahead and fix it up like you want as you will be in it 18 hours a day for over a decade. it's you home and should be your place of comfort. Don't worry about what it will sell for someday as that's not an issue.

 

[pacergal]

We are also at the point in our house where it is time for updates. It's hard to justify the expense of higher quality when I know we will not (or our kids may not) get it back upon selling in the future, but how much we enjoy the home now, and after renovations, and hopefully for the rest of our lives, means something.

 

[Ronstar]

Simple: if you are going to live there for the rest of your active life, go ahead and fix it up like you want as you will be in it 18 hours a day for over a decade. it's you home and should be your place of comfort. Don't worry about what it will sell for someday as that's not an issue.

I agree with this even if you live there for 10-15 years. IMO enjoying the place in the way you want it for 10-15 years is worth more than what a possible $100k savings would mean to you when you’re 80-85 years old.

 

[MichaelB]

Simple: if you are going to live there for the rest of your active life, go ahead and fix it up like you want as you will be in it 18 hours a day for over a decade. it's you home and should be your place of comfort. Don't worry about what it will sell for someday as that's not an issue.

I agree. For me the important question is what would you do with this money if you don’t remodel.

 

[Midpack]

I don't know how anyone else can guide your decision, only you can decide what it's worth to you, and what's affordable in your eyes. I can only tell you we've done...

• a full "to the studs" kitchen remodel,
• a full "to the studs" master bath remodel,
• a whole house carpet replacement - followed by nearly whole house wood flooring 10 years later,
• upgraded a covered porch with composite decking, cedar ceiling and full screen enclosure,
• too many large ($5-10K) landscaping projects,
• a 2500 sf crawl space encapsulation and
• a substantial exterior facelift to our last house

...and with every one we wished we'd done them sooner when all was said and done. Never regretted doing any of them, and we didn't do any of them on the cheap - all were substantial upgrades. I am sure we never got what we put into them in resale, but they did increase value some, and what we recovered was never a top priority. FWIW, best of luck.

I would only suggest you really get what you want if you're going to all this effort, versus pinching pennies. If doing your master bath project on the cheap is $15K, and getting what you want within reason is $20K - in my eyes the cost is only $5K to get what you want. If I went the $15K route I'd probably regret it from then on, and have to look at it every day thereafter. That would eat at me...

And as expensive as these projects always are, they won't get cheaper if you wait. They will look like bargains some years down the road...

 

[Gallaher]

Just know whatever you think it cost it will be lots more.
Not being facetious. Everybody will bid you low (to get your business) and surprise you with upgrades or price increases.
Just to be safe, add 50% to every bid.
Be a realist, a contractor bids you $10K for a job then charges you $20K. What’s your recourse? just pay the original $10k?
They slap a lean on you in nothing flat.

 

[MBAustin]

I would do it the way you want it without going "over the top". We remodeled when we bought this house and because the work needed was so extensive, I chose not to do some things at the time to save $$. For example, we didn't replace the kitchen tile even though we gutted it to the studs because we kept the same footprint. But the tile was nothing like what I wanted and it annoyed me every day for years until I finally couldn't stand it anymore. And replacing it while living in the house was a real pain. So I would vote for "do it now".

 

[engineernerd]

Things that I don’t like bug me far worse than DW. Nothing drastic but that is where a bit of the tension comes in. Still, I just feel like I shouldn’t make decisions as casually as I did before retirement. While the money is there, I obviously don’t have the income stream I had when working or time to recover from mistakes.

If this is causing tension in the marriage, that's not good. I would not go ahead without clear and non-grudging spousal agreement. Ideally you would have resolved these issues and gotten her on board with your plans before buying the condo, but of course it's only after you bought it that you probably found out how costly everything is! I still can't believe what we paid a plumber for ~6 hours of work!

I recommend taking DW's concerns seriously no matter what you think of them. Work things out between you so that you are both truly on board (not grudgingly) with whatever you eventually decide. IMHO.

 

[Lorenzo]

I try to keep in mind that putting too much money into my home may be sub-optimal in a spreadsheet analysis, but it does not require the level of rationalization needed to put money into something like a boat—a depreciating asset that requires constant maintenance and where the enjoyment is tempered by frequent headaches. A home is different.

 

[engineernerd]

...and BTW, everybody hates sheet vinyl flooring but it is the ONLY flooring product that remains undamaged, and protects your subfloor and joists from damage as well, due to sneaky leaks like a refrigerator-icemaker leak! And if you drop a dish it has a good chance of surviving un-shattered.

Just sayin'.