Ever been on a PIP?

[Sorcerer]

We have a friend who was just put on a PIP (performance improvement plan.) From my own experience, the writing is on the wall that they will be axed. It's a good way for the company to cover themselves from a lawsuit.

I was put in a PIP at my last job, around 15 years ago. We were a team of 10. My numbers were the highest, meaning I completed more tickets than anyone else, by a lot. I was however, the only one on our team not in the same location. I was remote, the rest reported to an office, 2000 miles from me. And due to my location, I was getting paid more than anyone else, even our manager. They ultimately found a way to fire me. Right before the probationary period was up from the pip, gone.

Anyone else have or know someone who has had experience with a PIP?

 

[Gallaher]

I put a lot of people on PIPs. Yes, it was always the end of the line.
In my last five years on the job I was in the top 20% 4/5 years winning Presidents club 2 of those five years.
Then they put me on a PIP for no clear reason. Of course I saw it coming. I was older and made a lot more. I knew it was the end of the line. Rode it out took the package and retired.
Wish it had happened a few years earlier.

 

[Flieger]

I have given many PIP's over my career. It was up to the individual as to how it turned out. A conscientious manager will take it seriously and work with the employee for success. I had an estimated 80% success rate in turning it around for those individuals. I'd say 15% of the failures were people that just wanted to leave, and 5% were just unable.

Depending on the company/manager/employee, I would not say it is "writing on the wall.

Flieger

 

[Car-Guy]

Yep, we had it on going at my Mega Corp for years. Bottom 10% were typically put on the program each year. IIRC they were given 6 months to meet certain improvement goals. Most didn't.

The problem was, from my POV, many (not all) were good contributors.

But, it made room to hire new blood, which of course is what the company really wanted in the first place.

 

[athena53]

My BIL was a manager for Wal-Mart- something to do with the area in charge of training truckers. In his new job he inherited a direct report and management made it clear that she wasn't performing and he was in charge of helping her out the door. Instead he sat down and talked with her, decided she had potential and coached her. She blossomed and went on to higher positions in the company. BIL tried college a few times but he wasn't into it. Apparently, though, he was a natural manager.

I agree, though, that 99% of the time a PIP means you better look for another job. It's unfortunate because I think some workers just don't have the right manager or are put into situations where its impossible to succeed (e.g. under-staffed departments, bad decisions at the C-suite level).

Personally- on a Friday after my last manager pretty much threw me under the bus during a meeting (I was too much of a people-pleaser to call him out on it) and then called me into his office and said maybe we should have a "coaching session" on Monday, DH and I mulled it over during the weekend and I told the boss that Monday that I was quitting. The weasel- his face flooded with relief. I haven't looked back. Life is good.

 

[Exchme]

We use PIPs to document why someone gets the axe when we are not in a downturn. Theoretically, it would be possible to survive one if the issue was behavioral, but not really fixable if it is a lack of skill (it takes years to become good at what we do, impossible to recover the lost ground in a few months). Of course, even if it was behavioral, no one gets a PIP until they've been verbally warned, so the PIP is not likely to change the behavior. The only time I've seen folks survive one is where the company got busy and was lax in completing the evaluation.

So your friend should start looking for another job immediately and maybe consider a career change to whatever it is they are really interested in.

 

[Flieger]

My BIL was a manager for Wal-Mart- something to do with the area in charge of training truckers. In his new job he inherited a direct report and management made it clear that she wasn't performing and he was in charge of helping her out the door. Instead he sat down and talked with her, decided she had potential and coached her. She blossomed and went on to higher positions in the company. BIL tried college a few times but he wasn't into it. Apparently, though, he was a natural manager.

I agree, though, that 99% of the time a PIP means you better look for another job. It's unfortunate because I think some workers just don't have the right manager or are put into situations where its impossible to succeed (e.g. under-staffed departments, bad decisions at the C-suite level).

Personally- on a Friday after my last manager pretty much threw me under the bus during a meeting (I was too much of a people-pleaser to call him out on it) and then called me into his office and said maybe we should have a "coaching session" on Monday, DH and I mulled it over during the weekend and I told the boss that Monday that I was quitting. The weasel- his face flooded with relief. I haven't looked back. Life is good.

To me, this was really "my job" once I decided to move from engineering positions to Leadership. Those that use PIP's as a tool just to get rid of someone should really look for a different role where they too can be beneficial. Not saying that every person will "blossom", but I found if you approached properly, most people WANTED to succeed. Being able to in a particular position or role is sometimes a different story.

If your friend is already thinking that he will fail, and his manager doesn't set a plan to review his performance against the improvement plan frequently, then yes, he should be working just as hard at finding another position.

Flieger

 

[Sorcerer]

To me, this was really "my job" once I decided to move from engineering positions to Leadership. Those that use PIP's as a tool just to get rid of someone should really look for a different role where they too can be beneficial. Not saying that every person will "blossom", but I found if you approached properly, most people WANTED to succeed. Being able to in a particular position or role is sometimes a different story.

If your friend is already thinking that he will fail, and his manager doesn't set a plan to review his performance against the improvement plan frequently, then yes, he should be working just as hard at finding another position.

Flieger

It's actually a female. Her and her also female boss never really got along. I guess it all came about when our friend said something negative to an upper management female about her boss...which then the upper management told our friends boss. The PIP was issued less than a week later. I think in this particular case, it's going to be a challenge to come back from.

Note to anyone reading this and still working. Do not openly speak negative about your boss, especially to your boss's boss. Smh

 

[COcheesehead]

Having owned my own business and with the buck stopping at my desk, the only PIP I was ever under was making sure we ate that month.

 

[Sorcerer]

Having owned my own business and with the buck stopping at my desk, the only PIP I was ever under was making sure we ate that month.

That's the ultimate PIP. I wouldnt be able to handle that.

 

[COcheesehead]

That's the ultimate PIP. I wouldnt be able to handle that.

It’s actually more satisfying than worrisome.

 

[pb4uski]

I only had to do a PIP once and in that case it was a performance problem rather that a pretext to a firing. The person took the performance review to heart and it all worked out ok.

Years later, in a different job, I was appointed as acting VP of a department where an employee that was already on a PIP. That one was far down the tracks and didn't work out so well. It was the only time in 35 years that I had to fire someone.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, at one point in my career I was on a PIP. It was very early in my career and I was having a good time socially and fitting in work as I could. At my first one year review of being with the firm, the managing partner told me that they thought I was a bright young guy but that I wasn't applying myself and that in 6 months they were either going to fire me or promote me. I ended up buckling down and they promoted me 6 months later.

 

[1242Vintage]

Over the years a few employees in my Division earned Performance Improvement Plans (PIP). They earned the PIP by (1) failing to achieve agreed-upon project milestones and (2) failure to engage their supervisor for remediation of the schedule slippage.

The employees on PIPs never recovered and all ultimately terminated for cause.

Poor performing employees typically filed wrongful termination lawsuits in hopes of getting a quick settlement. Nope! Go ahead and drag me and my supervisor to court. All the wrongful termination suits in my Division were abandoned by the terminated employee when that former employee realized no quick settlement was coming their way!

Of course our corporate legal eagles were never happy that I wouldn’t agree to a cash settlement to make it go away.

 

[sdawson]

From another perspecitve, I seem to have a good reputation as a mentor at my work. And I am on a project where we can take on workes for short term assignments (6 months or so, or perhaps 50% time).

So during my career, on my project I worked with 5 different people who were put on PIPs. They left the project which they were not working well with, and they were given a chance to succeed with mentoriing.

Of those five, three succeeded and left my project at the end of the PIP duration and succeeded on other projects. One did not, the other is still iffy at this point (he is ongoing).

There are many reason why a person may not succeed. Some are correctable behavior issues. Some are communication issues. Some are just the project they were on was not a match for their skill set. I have found that in general, if one is on a PIP it is the final chance. The behavior issues tend to be -- show up for every meeting on time and work a full day. Of course things happen, so when it happens, communicate clearly to your team why you will be late, leave early, or miss a meeting. Other behavioral issue are if one is perceived as angry or overly aggressive, in this case in addition to the PIP my company has someone coach that person specifically to address these issues (which the person may not be aware of).

The communication is a big issue. What are your goals for the week and the day. What progress have you made. What are the blockers. How have you tried to resolve issues or problems encountered. Who are you reaching out to for help. We develop software. Reach out to other developers and just ask questions when issues are encountered. The 15 minute talk with another developer can do wonders for breaking through such issue. Over the past few years, various AI clients have taken over a lot of this. Is the person using AI to make them more effective?

We would work together to establish a checkbox list of activities which need done this week, and check them off daily. I would also setup a 15 minute meeting daily and make myself available for other talks during the day as necessary.

Mentoring does take time. But if a person has the skills and ability and is willing to learn how to communicate and cooperate and develope the expected behavioral requirements, one can survive a PIP and have a career.

At least at my company, that is how PIP works.

 

[38Chevy454]

I agree, the PIP should be called CYA for the company. It's their BS actions to justify getting rid of somebody so that they have documentation for any lawsuit.

Tell your friend to start looking for another job now. The PIP is just the company's CYA.

 

[tulak]

You can’t fight your manager and if you went over their head, you likely did more harm to yourself than not.

If you don’t get along with your manager, you should look for a new job.

I’ve seen people recover from a PIP, but it’s not a given. I haven’t seen anyone recover from a bad working relationship with their manager.

 

[Sunset]

It's actually a female. Her and her also female boss never really got along. I guess it all came about when our friend said something negative to an upper management female about her boss...which then the upper management told our friends boss. The PIP was issued less than a week later. I think in this particular case, it's going to be a challenge to come back from.

Note to anyone reading this and still working. Do not openly speak negative about your boss, especially to your boss's boss. Smh

I got on a PIP once.
Reason was our new manager had us all fill out an anonymous survey about her, In the survey I mentioned how she dressed inappropriately at work. Frankly she dressed like a hooker but I wasn't that explicit.

A week later I got PIP'd by her. I knew she was just going to use the PIP as justification for firing.

Another manager, heard I got PIP'd and asked me to join his group, so I did.

 

[big-papa]

I was never on a PIP myself - though I just got flat out layed off a few times.

I put a few people on PIPS. It's usually the last step after coaching and other steps have played out to improve performance without positive results. By that time, when the PIP starts nobody should be surprised. In fact, in my opinion, that should always be the case - there should have been clear communication about what the issues are through more informal means such that by the time a PIP is started, nobody is surprised.

I know exactly 1 person who I ever worked with who was put on a PIP and survived it. Everybody who knew about it and everybody knew it was his manager that was the issue. Sometimes the system is broken.

Cheers.

 

[Sorcerer]

I got on a PIP once.
Reason was our new manager had us all fill out an anonymous survey about her, In the survey I mentioned how she dressed inappropriately at work. Frankly she dressed like a hooker but I wasn't that explicit.

A week later I got PIP'd by her. I knew she was just going to use the PIP as justification for firing.

Another manager, heard I got PIP'd and asked me to join his group, so I did.

Gotta love those anonymous surveys. I've never taken them. I never trusted that they were truly anonymous.