Fukushima Molten fuel

ls99

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Question for Nukes: In the article there is mention of 880 tons of molten fuel, is that plausible?
Seems like a huge amount. I never would have guessed that amount in a reactor.
I did spend time w*rking at San Onofre Nuke plant years ago, on electronics and instrumentation, but am no Nuke.

"Fukushima Daiichi lost its cooling systems during the 2011 earthquake and tsunami, causing meltdowns in three of its reactors. An estimated 880 tons of fuel remains in them, and Tepco has carried out several robotic operations."
"
Tepco said that on Wednesday the robot successfully clipped a piece estimated to weigh about 3 grams from the area underneath the Unit 2 reactor core, from which large amounts of melted fuel fell during the meltdown 13 years ago."
 
After I left the Navy, I became a certified Senior Reactor Operator at the Perry Nuclear Power Plant in Ohio in the late 1980s, a job I did for 3 years before moving on and going to law school. My plant was a single unit GE BWR-6 boiling water reactor with a rated output of 1250 MW. It is quite similar to the plants in Fukushima.

Nuclear fuel consists of enriched uranium oxide powder that has been compressed into solid cylindrical pellets (that look just like a tootsie roll). The pellets are then put in a 14+ foot long zirconium tube, which is pressurized with an inert gas and welded shut. They then take 64 of these tubes and arrange them in an 8 x 8 grid, with stainless steel end caps and spacers to keep the tubes at a precise distance apart so the water can flow around them. There is a square cross section, open ended stainless steel casing (called a fuel channel) that then goes around the 64 tube fuel bundle. There is also a stainless steel lifting handle on top so they can be removed during refueling. If I recall correctly, the whole assembly is about 6 inches on a side and 15 feet long. Then, they they take 748 of these assemblies and mount them in what is essentially a gigantic stainless steel colander that is mounted inside the pressure vessel. There is a space between each fuel assembly and the adjacent assemblies (I can't recall but probably on the order of an inch). Centered between each four assemblies is an X shaped control rod made from boron carbide and hafnium that can be moved in or out of the core to control the nuclear reaction by absorbing neutrons.

I'm giving you this description because what is in the puddle at the bottom of each pressure vessel is not just melted uranium fuel. Rather it is the fuel assemblies, the boron/hafnium control rods, the stainless steel colander and the steel supports, all of which is now one amalgamated mess. A fuel assembly weighs 681 lbs, so the full load of 748 fuel assemblies weighs just under 510,000 lbs or 255 tons. Then you would have to add the weight of the control rods, the colander and the supports. With three reactors, I can easily see that there is 880 tons of melted fuel/detritus.

Here is a link to visualize what the core looks like and a spec sheet for the fuel assemblies.

https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ml1209/ML120970422.pdf (page 4 and 5)

Physical characteristics of GE (General Electric) BWR (boiling-water reactor) fuel assemblies (Technical Report) | OSTI.GOV (page 97)
 
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Gumby, thanks for the great tutorial. My general knowledge of this subject is more along the lines of radiation biology and health physics. I understand the basic concept of a reactor, but your description and sources are very useful in visualizing a reactor.

My Health Physics class traveled all the way to Marble Hill in Indiana in the early '80s and watched them set one of the two containment units. Exciting stuff. Of course, the plant never opened. $2.5 Billion (in 1980's dollars) down the drain. I guess they tried to change MH over to a conventional plant (maybe coal?) but the whole thing just died eventually.

I recall the plant's Health Physics folks being so proud of their cooling towers. They were not the traditional huge concrete funnel-towers. Instead they had made them more like conventional plant dog-houses (a quarter mile long.) The folks there thought that people wouldn't get freaked out by those cooling towers which were less efficient and less "obvious." Of course, it all came to naught.

I remember well the tsunami of March 11, 2011. For quite some time, we didn't know for certain how big a deal it would be for us on Oahu. Big Island and Maui got the worst of it IIRC. For a long time, we got trash washing up on our shores from Japan. Interesting times.

Heh, heh, can you say Diablo Canyon? :facepalm: :cool:
 
Thank you Gumby, great explanation.
I did have routine access to the reactor control room, never had a need to learn the gory details of how the reactor works. Had no desire or the need to enter the containment building.
An amazing memeory, when one morning arrived at the plant, and the usual hum of generator was absent, instead the two huge diesel generators were running to keep the cooling pumps etc. running. Can't remember why but they scrammed the reactor overnight.
 
That was Fukushima's problem - the tsunami wiped out the offsite power grid and the on-site emergency diesel generators, because the wave height was more than twice their design basis. So they could not run the pumps to cool the reactors.
 
Kind of OT, but I read this novel about a month ago and learned a lot about nuclear reactors, hopefully most of it was factual. I live in Minneapolis, so there was an added interest level.
....
I can tell you that the possibility of an airliner crashing into the plant was part of the design basis for my plant (Perry). That is, they anticipated that it could happen and designed the plant containment to withstand it. I don't know about the Monticello plants.
 
I can tell you that the possibility of an airliner crashing into the plant was part of the design basis for my plant (Perry). That is, they anticipated that it could happen and designed the plant containment to withstand it. I don't know about the Monticello plants.

Nice job figuring out it was the Monticello plant in the book. They actually brought up the plane flying into a nuclear plant testing and explained that they were not done with a commercial passenger aircraft in mind.

The book claimed the crash tests were done post-911 and involved small aircraft traveling up to 300 mph.

Like I said, I hope the book was factual.
 
Nice job figuring out it was the Monticello plant in the book. They actually brought up the plane flying into a nuclear plant testing and explained that they were not done with a commercial passenger aircraft in mind.

The book claimed the crash tests were done post-911 and involved small aircraft traveling up to 300 mph.

Like I said, I hope the book was factual.
This may prove interesting reading. It is the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's 2009 rule regarding analysis of aircraft impacts by large commercial jets. If you look in the table of contents and read the section under Supplemental Information, section II "Currently Operating Power Reactors", it may give you some confidence regarding the Monticello plant.

 
So, for the layperson, what’s going to happen with the melt down material. Seriously, I thought it essentially kept melting into the earth. Is the radiation currently contained? It doesn’t seem like it is.
 
So, for the layperson, what’s going to happen with the melt down material. Seriously, I thought it essentially kept melting into the earth. Is the radiation currently contained? It doesn’t seem like it is.
Yes, in the worst of the three meltdowns, the "corium" as they call it, melted through the bottom of the pressure vessel onto the concrete floor below. That floor is 33 feet thick, and it is estimated that the corium penetrated to a depth of only 2 feet, where it has been cooling and solidifying ever since (almost 14 years). So it is still inside the primary containment and has gone as far as it will go. It will eventually become completely solid, if it is not there already.

See New analysis of Fukushima core status
 
Yes, in the worst of the three meltdowns, the "corium" as they call it, melted through the bottom of the pressure vessel onto the concrete floor below. That floor is 33 feet thick, and it is estimated that the corium penetrated to a depth of only 2 feet, where it has been cooling and solidifying ever since (almost 14 years). So it is still inside the primary containment and has gone as far as it will go. It will eventually become completely solid, if it is not there already.
...

Yea, we coined the term corium at the TMI-2 cleanup. Same kind of conglomeration of fuel, steel, zirconium cladding, etc. as at Fukushima. Interestingly, the steel caused some of the biggest problems in trying to defuel the reactor. We used core boring drills to break up the melted mass, but the steel would gum up the diamond drill bits.

I think this video is my work, or it is definitely derived from my work as most of the narrative matches what I wrote once or twice. For a year or so I produced daily video summaries of the work in the reactor for the next day's crew to review in the POD. Then occasionally would do PR type vids like this one. I would write the scripts, record them with narrator John Micka (former newscaster in the Harrisburg area), and edit/produce the videos. I was on the cleanup project from mid-1984 until the end of 1989.

 
Does the site (TMI-2) eventually become not radioactive? Or, at some level is it always a no man’s land?

Seems like at Chernobyl (which was different because of the explosion), they just covered what they could and just “roped off” a huge area from humans - for forever, as far as I know.
 
Does the site (TMI-2) eventually become not radioactive? Or, at some level is it always a no man’s land?

Seems like at Chernobyl (which was different because of the explosion), they just covered what they could and just “roped off” a huge area from humans - for forever, as far as I know.

By all indications nothing got out of the containment at TMI-2 except for radioactive gases that are long gone. The plant is now being decommissioned and all of the radioactive components will be disposed in NRC licensed landfills in Utah and Texas. So not a no man's land scenario. I'm not sure if they are cleaning up to residential or industrial use standards, but in reality that is a distinction without a difference.
 
Seems like it would be a great place to build a new nuclear power plant.
 
By all indications nothing got out of the containment at TMI-2 except for radioactive gases that are long gone. The plant is now being decommissioned and all of the radioactive components will be disposed in NRC licensed landfills in Utah and Texas. So not a no man's land scenario. I'm not sure if they are cleaning up to residential or industrial use standards, but in reality that is a distinction without a difference.

Seems like it would be a great place to build a new nuclear power plant.

TMI 1 is being started back up and going online to provide electricity for (mainly) Microsoft's data centers.

Is TMI 2 salvageable?
 
Yea, we coined the term corium at the TMI-2 cleanup. Same kind of conglomeration of fuel, steel, zirconium cladding, etc. as at Fukushima. Interestingly, the steel caused some of the biggest problems in trying to defuel the reactor. We used core boring drills to break up the melted mass, but the steel would gum up the diamond drill bits.

I think this video is my work, or it is definitely derived from my work as most of the narrative matches what I wrote once or twice. For a year or so I produced daily video summaries of the work in the reactor for the next day's crew to review in the POD. Then occasionally would do PR type vids like this one. I would write the scripts, record them with narrator John Micka (former newscaster in the Harrisburg area), and edit/produce the videos. I was on the cleanup project from mid-1984 until the end of 1989.

Awesome video! I retired in Dec 2022 from 28 years in commercial nukes (Connecticut Yankee and Millstone). Back in late '80's there was fuel damage at CT Yankee from previous work done on the Thermal Shield. We had to inspect all the fuel assy's for damage from machining debris. This was all done manually using long poled tools in the fuel pool from the bridge that runs over the pool. Every assy was taken apart, and individual fuel rods run through an Eddy Current device to verify no damage to fuel rods before putting the fuel assy back together making it ready to re-install into core. This was beginning of the end of CT Yankee. I still can't believe there is nothing left at that site when I cruise up the CT River on my boat!
 
30 yrs at San Onofre. 880 tons of molten something. But not fuel.
 
If anyone is interested, a great book titled "We almost lost Detroit" by John Fuller is available as a PDF: https://avalonlibrary.net/ebooks/John G. Fuller - We Almost Lost Detroit.pdf

It details several early nuclear power plant failures and then how a liquid metal (sodium) breeder reactor, Fermi 1, came within inches of being a major catastrophe in 1966.

Detroit Edison wrote a rebuttal to the book because, you know, an electric company is unbiased: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...oQFnoECEUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3WkkbvfT1AhP49ibKWsArA

The Detroit Edison rebuttal essentially says 'Trust us, we know what we're doing." The rebuttal does note on page 5 that backup power is critical for cooling and as with Fukushima, that's the rub.

Just like how we trusted the Davis-Besse nuclear plant near Toledo, Ohio where the reactor lid was almost entirely corroded away and only a 3/16" stainless steel plate remained when the damage was found: Piping rupture caused by flow accelerated corrosion

The workers found a large hole in the reactor vessel head next to CRDM nozzle #3. The hole was about six inches deep, five inches long, and seven inches wide. The hole extended to within 1-1/2 inches of the adjacent CRDM nozzle #11. The stainless steel liner welded to the inner surface of the reactor vessel head for protection against boric acid was at the bottom of the hole. This liner was approximately 3/16-inch thick and had bulged outward about 1/8-inch due to the high pressure (over one ton per square inch) inside the reactor vessel.


Think of the current world situation with threats of "limited" nuclear strikes. Or an EMP weapon causing widespread power failures. Then think of each nuclear plant in the world or even this country and what will happen if they lose backup power for cooling for days to weeks to months.

The NRC, of course, has studied the issue and decided it's not a problem: Resolution of Generic Safety Issues: Issue 20: Effects of Electromagnetic Pulse on Nuclear Power Plants (Rev. 1) ( NUREG-0933, Main Report with Supplements 1–35 )

But that's only valid if everything works as designed and keeps on working as designed until the fuel is cool and there is no physical damage to the systems creating and supplying the backup power. Think no fuel trucks to deliver diesel to the nuclear plants to keep their backup generators running because those fuel trucks had their electronic controls damaged. And that's only if the nuclear plants are afforded top priority by the fuel vendors and that there are drivers available who have not beat feet out of the area with their families.

Military chips were spec'd as being EMP-protected and then a major supplier was found to be buying chips from China that did not survive EMP testing but they were already installed in a lot of military aircraft.


When I worked on a fire department in Ohio we were exactly 50 miles to the southwest from Perry where Gumby worked. Since we were barely in the 50-mile evacuation radius we got training at Perry for free as part of their evacuation plan.

Perry is on the shore of Lake Erie. The instructor was discussing what would happen and the best advice he could give us was to grab our critical stuff and family and head south. "There will be about two million people in a mass panic trying to leave and they can't go north due to Lake Erie. They are going east, west, and south. When you hear about a major problem get the heck out because the horde is coming your way, straight down I-77 and I-71. You have a head start on everyone else so use it."


And if you're interested in anything going on radiation-wise here is a great web site: Geiger Counter World Map

People with compatible Geiger counters can automatically upload their data to GMCMap and show up on that world map. There are a lot of devices reporting in from Europe and the USA plus a smattering from the Middle East. There are a few in Israel but they come and go. The ones in Cyprus always seem to report in.

You'll see a few red outliers, almost certainly malfunctioning Geiger counters. But if a lot of that green goes yellow or red, or suddenly disappears, I'm going to believe it.
 
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On the somewhat funny side. When I w*rked in Seismology, the running joke was, want to find a geologic fault line? Just look near any nuke plant.
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