Future of College and University Athletics

[Pellice]

Just had a fascinating lengthy discussion with AI (!) about the future of university athletics programs following the NIL decisions and the upcoming House V. NCAA settlement. I'm sure I didn't read it thoroughly or understand all of it. And I admit I come from an academic background with a somewhat anti-Big-Time sports bias. But -it sounds to me as though the fallout from the House settlement is now irreversible. There is a "premier league" in formation - nicknamed the "Super League," which will separate the big money teams from second tier teams.

This will NOT solve the problem of university's subsidizing athletics. Apparently it's well known that even the biggest media contracts are not paying for even football expenses - the universities are footing the bill for, e.g. legal expenses (think U. of Michigan today!), for utilities of athletic facilities, for snow plowing the parking lots, for tutor's benefits. Etc.) But the Super League will be followed by formation of limited liability companies, which DO separate ALL the expenses, and indeed are themselves not tax exempt, to protect the university's non-profit status. The University of Kentucky has already formed a limited liability company (Champions Blue) which separates the university's athletics department from the university, but all these revenue questions are not yet settled and indeed are under legal challenges.

Am I understanding all this correctly (never have a long AI discussion on a small phone screen!) What I don't understand is why second tier schools are fighting so hard to maintain the status quo EVEN THOUGH 1) it's costing them huge deficits and is unsustainable; 2) it's already 95% hopeless for them to compete with Big Time schools; and 3) it's pretty much proven that the arguments that faculty and student recruitment depends on how big a sports name the school has matters very little in individual decisions. As for donors, those who care about athletics are now busier than ever keeping up with the Joneses and trying to pool money to pay athletes.

AI explained all this as the "sunken costs dilemna," human inertia, backers' emotions, and institutional blocks. Yes, the lesser sports will have to travel less, make do with older facilities, and smaller scholarships, but so be it - they are still competing, right, when many lesser sports are being cut entirely to focus on the big boys. But even further - it sounds as though all this is already unstoppable, so why continue to fight so desperately?

 

[Gumby]

If the NFL wants a minor league like MLB, then they should pay for it, players and facilities. No need for taxpayer support. In Connecticut, the three highest paid state employees, by a long shot, are the men's and women's basketball coaches and the football coach at UConn.

 

[Pellice]

If the NFL wants a minor league like MLB, then they should pay for it, players and facilities. No need for taxpayer support. In Connecticut, the three highest paid state employees, by a long shot, are the men's and women's basketball coaches and the football coach at UConn.

Yes, but most people have said that for years with no effect. It looks as though THIS time, the House v. NCAA, followed by the formation of LLCs WILL finally bring that about. And unless these teams ARE really generating the revenue they claim, profitability of the LLCs will force the reduction of salaries, contraction of facilities, etc. Who would have thunk it that the NIL provisions & portal explosion would actually end up forcing the creation of a minor league system whose revenues and expenses were separate from the university's.

 

[SnowballCamper]

As for donors, those who care about athletics are now busier than ever keeping up with the Joneses and trying to pool money to pay athletes.

I think this is the answer to your question. But also, is there any university anywhere with no athletic program? Physical fitness supports mental fitness and health in general. Physical fitness is relatively boring compared to competitive sport, so it makes sense to have competitive programs since they also increase a sense of belonging. Resulting in people who give money throughout their lives. The college that doesn't have a sports program in house gives up that funding.

 

[Gallaher]

I think we can a quit calling them “student athletes” and start calling them “farm-team athletes”. The transfer portal is ridiculous. Students are transferring to three and four teams/schools in as many years. Can’t blame them, everyone wants to make “the league”. But most won’t. Curious GPA and graduation rate conversations have stopped. Who cares anymore?
If schools use student likeness to profit, students deserve NIL money. But what lack of parity? The quarterback gets $4mil a year, the second team center gets nothing? It’s supposed to be a team sport.
My final rant: school like U of Oregon has a $60mil football budget. Thanks to Phil Knight. Oregon State U has a $6mil budget. Most money wins.
So is the mission to do research and educate? Or is it to build sports entertainment empires?

When I need a brain surgery please dont send in a flunky student athlete that focused on being an athlete

 

[Pellice]

I think this is the answer to your question. But also, is there any university anywhere with no athletic program? Physical fitness supports mental fitness and health in general. Physical fitness is relatively boring compared to competitive sport, so it makes sense to have competitive programs since they also increase a sense of belonging. Resulting in people who give money throughout their lives. The college that doesn't have a sports program in house gives up that funding.

The short-term result would seem to be more Division III programs, with no athletic scholarships, and much smaller-scale competition - with only nearby schools, lesser facilities, many fewer coaches. AI gave the example of a St. Francis University in PA, which unilaterally downgraded its programs from Division I to Division III, citing the absolute impossibility of fiscally continuing. But - so far they are alone. Other second tier schools are choosing to fight the creation of this super league and llc's on the irrational hope that they might have a cinderella win and somehow get a big contract, ignoring that then they'd have to take on more debt to upgrade facilities, etc.

 

[yakers]

Can we go back to Universities being about education? As a U of Chicago person ( now living next to Caltech) U of C discontinued intercollegiate sports when they had nationally ranked teams. (OK, that was a long time ago )

 

[Mark1]

I noted that Penn State recently hired Matt Campbell and gave him $17 million/yr for assistant coaches and staff. Wow!

 

[rk911]

If the NFL wants a minor league like MLB, then they should pay for it, players and facilities. No need for taxpayer support. In Connecticut, the three highest paid state employees, by a long shot, are the men's and women's basketball coaches and the football coach at UConn.

That's been my "solution" for a while, now. Privatize the whole shebang and get the universities back to tneir core "business".

 

[Koolau]

Can we go back to Universities being about education?

Kinda where I'm at.

 

[Delawaredave5]

Universities are all biased pork and don't pay taxes. Any university with "commercial sports" should lose non profit status, pay taxes, and be accountable.

 

[hesperus]

Dude, ngl, the idea of a “Super League” separating the big money programs just sounds kinda inevitable. Like, how long could they really pretend it was all about amateurs anyway? idk why second-tier schools are still trying to keep up. It’s like bringing a knife to a gun fight. tbh, maybe they should just pivot to being actually academic schools lol.

 

[imjustawarrior]

I believe schools should be about education and not sports.

 

[Lewis Clark]

James Michener's book "Sports in America" was published in 1976. He commented that if we were designing a higher education system from scratch, it is unlikely that we would demand that system provide major sports entertainment. Yet here were are today, bigger than ever, and this is unlikely to go away.

 

[Chuckanut]

Big Name college football is now a joke if one believes it should be about serious students who also play football. It's mostly paid mercenaries on the field.

A retired veteran I know says the only true big name college football game left is Army vs. Navy.

 

[sparky08]

I used to be a fan of college athletics, in particular, my university. The Univ of Wisconsin never got the five star athletes, but would take the 3 stars and develop them into something that would finish in the top third and go to a decent bowl.

But NIL/transfer, along with UW actually wanting the kids to go to class, will doom them to the bottom of the division forevermore. And athlete that develops will transfer to a school with a bigger payday.

I used to watch UW, most of the Big 10, and some of the big games. I don't think I watched a minute of college football this year. And I don't plan on watching any bowl games.

Somewhat related, there was an article in the WSJ last week about a 5 star recruit. The same things are going on in High School.

 

[SnowballCamper]

Big Name college football is now a joke if one believes it should be about serious students who also play football. It's mostly paid mercenaries on the field.

A retired veteran I know says the only true big name college football game left is Army vs. Navy.

It might be the only football game where all the participants know enough calculus to compute a derivative.

 

[zinger1457]

Not sure what the answer is but there's no way a separate private minor league would generate the money and interest that college football and basketball does. The current system is too top heavy, the same teams making most of the money and getting the best talent (kind of sounds like the Dodgers). Notre Dame didn't make the playoffs but the football program still takes in over $140M in revenue, not many teams can compete with that. If Notre Dame became the Indiana Buckaroos minor league team they would be lucky to take in 1/10th of their current revenue.

 

[RunningBum]

It works well in the smaller revenue sports, where athletes can make a little money on the side doing a clinic for high schoolers or a commercial for a local business. The major sports have been out of control for a long time. The good thing about NIL is now the money is no longer under the table. Things need to change, but any limit put on players for transferring needs to apply to coaches too. Or anytime a coach leaves the players should be allowed to go. There's no good answer. Spinning off these sports to be independent of the universities might be the way to go.

I'm still watching, not quite as obsessively as I used to. I've also got a problem with the head injuries, mostly in football but also soccer and ice hockey. I'm hoping some of the rules changes regarding targeting will bring those numbers down.

 

[Koolau]

When I was in University, we had a very competitive football and basketball team. I was often in class with players. Nearly as I could tell, they had to bust it just like I did to get decent grades. I'm guessing they got tutors - and I hired a tutor a couple of times, myself.

I suspect that these days, the academic stuff is more of an after-thought.

 

[jollystomper]

When I was in University, we had a very competitive football and basketball team. I was often in class with players. Nearly as I could tell, they had to bust it just like I did to get decent grades. I'm guessing they got tutors - and I hired a tutor a couple of times, myself.

I suspect that these days, the academic stuff is more of an after-thought.

It is probably not easy to focus on the academic stuff when one is already making mid-high six figures or 7 figures... at that point the job they are studying for is one in the pro leagues.

The notion that colleges should just teach started to die long ago, in my opinion, when they no longer became accountable for student loans. That is when college shifted from focusing on the "education" to focusing on the "experience". After all, if one enjoys the experience, one may never leave, and have to keep taking out loans to stay . Moving sports from just another extra-curricular activity to a dominant source of revenue is part of enhancing that "experience". I mean, do the football and basketball teams really need 8 different uniforms styles to wear during a season? Only because those are tied to an "experience".

One aspect I have not yet seen mention has been the added impact of legalized sports gambling. In sum, there is so much money around sports that it is very difficult for many colleges to resist, particularly when the alumni are much more vocal about how the teams are doing than the graduation and retention rates. Few want to be that voice crying in the wilderness trying to resist the temptation.

 

[Guamaniac]

Perhaps it's not really so bad. For years universities were benefitting financially from student athletes without compensating them. Yes they got a free education but the millions that were left over stayed entirely with the university.

And many of the athletes in college football (basketball too) that are getting paid may have had sparse opportunities if not for sports. Perhaps even lifting some out of poverty and exposing them to a whole new world (middle class students) that they never would have experienced otherwise. If there's a market for something, why not offer it? Surely those who participate in the stock market can understand this.

I guess I do object to the wild west nature of money sloshing around though. There really need to be some rules similar to pro sports leagues. Especially when the big time programs poach players from smaller schools without having to compensate those schools. In pro soccer leagues around the world one club pays another a fee for their player, then pays the player. Many smaller clubs stay alive by developing and selling players this way. What's going on now is not fair.

 

[RunningBum]

I guess I do object to the wild west nature of money sloshing around though. There really need to be some rules similar to pro sports leagues. Especially when the big time programs poach players from smaller schools without having to compensate those schools. In pro soccer leagues around the world one club pays another a fee for their player, then pays the player. Many smaller clubs stay alive by developing and selling players this way. What's going on now is not fair.

I like that a lot. That would give some balance, or at least keep the smaller programs on the field.

 

[6miths]

Yes went from famine to feast. Just saw the 60 Minutes segment on the Indiana Hoosiers and that QB Mendoza is being paid 2 million a year. Also the coach brought 12 players over when he came from James Madison. Wild west indeed!

 

[Gallaher]

Yes went from famine to feast. Just saw the 60 Minutes segment on the Indiana Hoosiers and that QB Mendoza is being paid 2 million a year. Also the coach brought 12 players over when he came from James Madison. Wild west indeed!

At $2mil a year Mendoza is a bargain. Shedur Sanders was in the $6mil range