Getting aging parent to spend money when they have more than enough?

[pacergal]

Have you and your Mom gone on a tour of any Continuing Care/Independent Living places? That might be something to help your Mom make a decision. Sometimes visiting and talking with other residents helps.
Would your Mom let you accompany her to see her broker to review her expenses/budget ?Hopefully they could reassure her she has the funds.
Maybe explore with her moving companies who actually will do the packing for you so it would be less tiresome.

Is her extreme frugalness something new or a big change? Perhaps a visit to her medical provider is warranted. How old is your Mom?

Speaking of connecting with her broker, does your Mom have her estate planning done--will, financial POA, Healthcare directives and healthcare POA, etc?

Best of Luck

 

[Kings over Queens]

My mom complains about where she lives and thinks she wants to move to independent living. That sounds like a great idea to me. It seems like a great quality of life upgrade. Then when we get serious about finding a place and the conversation changes to how expensive it will be and how hard it will be to move. She is blessed with having plenty of money but cursed with extreme frugalness. She currently lives in a nice place but otherwise lives at the poverty level using only her social security. The older she gets the worse the frugalness gets. She won't spend money on herself or anyone else.

She likes her broker, but I've never talked to him. Not sure if it's even allowed by law? I think he could persuade her to spend money.

How do you get an ultra-frugal person to spend money to improve their life?

What are her complaints? Perhaps focus on those with examples of how much better life would be in an independent facility because it solves those problems.

As far as the financial side, I worked up a budget and balance sheet for my mother in law, the forecasted out her expenses inside a facility, and if she stayed where she was. I had to include income with and without my father in law's pension. This was more of an exercise to convince her that she had more money in terms of funding years of expenses than she realized.

When you put in terms of "you have 25 years of living expenses" things take a different perspective.

 

[engineernerd]

Can you find out whether any of the local communities that you think Mom would enjoy living in will allow her to move in on a trial basis? My MIL did that so I know at least that one did offer the option.

It's a lot less scary to try it out without an upfront commitment.

 

[Kings over Queens]

It's not a dump.
It's an ok place but with limited options.
If cooking is one of your hobbies in retirement, then just forget about it if you move to this place...

I don't know, sounded like a lovely facility to me. If cooking is your hobby, then you find one with better kitchen facilities. Simple enough.

You've made it clear that isn't the type of living for you, which is fine. I can't consider it at my age but those who I know who are in those type of facilities love them. Lots of friends, activities, and you can do as much or as little as you like. One compared it to living on cruise ship.

 

[corn18]

The bad news is it only gets worse for you. My in laws have millions in savings. When my FIL got brain cancer, my MIL would not spend a dime on making their house handicap friendly. Then when Pop got bad, she would not spend a dime on help. I visited one time when he was really bad and ended up helping him go to the ridiculously inaccessible bathroom and wiping his butt and cleaning up the messy bed. That was fun. We live in Cincinnati and they were in Baltimore, so every time Pop had an issue, we had to drive 8 hours to help out.

Pop died and Nan would not move out of her house. Laundry was in the basement. They had a pool. She was too cheap to hire any help so she used/abused her grandson and neighbors to help her do everything. She said they liked helping her out. Would not hire anyone. When all the locals stopped answering the phone, she finally decided to move to a CCRC into a house (independent living). Still don't hear the end of how we "made" her move out of her house. That worked fine until she started falling. Many more drives to Baltimore to care for her for 6-8 weeks at a time while she rehabbed. We finally told her we weren't going to do that anymore and said she could move to full nursing care there or move here to assisted living. She moved here and now we don't hear the end of how we made her move here.

She has COPD and is pretty bad off but will not move to full nursing care. She abused the crap out of us for a couple years making us come over to help her to the bathroom and feed her. Finally told her to hire 24 hour care or move to full nursing care. She decided on 24 hour care for $30k / mo. But she still wants us to drive her around. She is a nightmare to get in and out of our car so we told her to take the assisted living transport or buy a handicapped accessible van. Still working through that one. But, the 24 hours care has been a God send. Now that she has it, she won't give it up. Makes our life much better.

We have come to hate Nan because of her selfishness. It is sad. Her money could make her quality of life so much better. And ours. But nope, she is cheap and would rather make us all miserable.

Sorry to be a Debbie downer, but needed to vent. This is all horrible.

 

[wearefinishedworking]

Oh no, I feel for you Corn18. My 87 year old mom is SO cheap and yes, thinks nothing of calling one of her age 60+ kids to get her off of the floor. Her net worth is probably around 2.5M.

 

[audreyh1]

The bad news is it only gets worse for you. My in laws have millions in savings. When my FIL got brain cancer, my MIL would not spend a dime on making their house handicap friendly. Then when Pop got bad, she would not spend a dime on help. I visited one time when he was really bad and ended up helping him go to the ridiculously inaccessible bathroom and wiping his butt and cleaning up the messy bed. That was fun. We live in Cincinnati and they were in Baltimore, so every time Pop had an issue, we had to drive 8 hours to help out.

Pop died and Nan would not move out of her house. Laundry was in the basement. They had a pool. She was too cheap to hire any help so she used/abused her grandson and neighbors to help her do everything. She said they liked helping her out. Would not hire anyone. When all the locals stopped answering the phone, she finally decided to move to a CCRC into a house (independent living). Still don't hear the end of how we "made" her move out of her house. That worked fine until she started falling. Many more drives to Baltimore to care for her for 6-8 weeks at a time while she rehabbed. We finally told her we weren't going to do that anymore and said she could move to full nursing care there or move here to assisted living. She moved here and now we don't hear the end of how we made her move here.

She has COPD and is pretty bad off but will not move to full nursing care. She abused the crap out of us for a couple years making us come over to help her to the bathroom and feed her. Finally told her to hire 24 hour care or move to full nursing care. She decided on 24 hour care for $30k / mo. But she still wants us to drive her around. She is a nightmare to get in and out of our car so we told her to take the assisted living transport or buy a handicapped accessible van. Still working through that one. But, the 24 hours care has been a God send. Now that she has it, she won't give it up. Makes our life much better.

We have come to hate Nan because of her selfishness. It is sad. Her money could make her quality of life so much better. And ours. But nope, she is cheap and would rather make us all miserable.

Sorry to be a Debbie downer, but needed to vent. This is all horrible.

If you are the only people she’s got I hope all that money she insists on saving will be coming your way eventually. So sad about Pop.

 

[Pluperfect]

I know someone in a facility with a one BR apartment that has three meals a day included in the dining room downstairs.
The apartment itself has a motel-like kitchenette with a microwave, mini fridge, and mini sink.

You'd have to shoot me before I'd go into a place like that before age 95...

[In case it matters, I'm in Texas.]

If a facility is serving three meals a day to everyone, then that means all rooms in the facility are licensed as assisted living, and the rooms are likely to have at most a motel-like kitchenette. "Assisted living" is for people who can't do activities of daily living, like dressing, bathing, using the bathroom.

This is not the same as "independent living" rooms/apartments. Those aren't required to serve three meals a day, and typically they serve breakfast and a choice of either lunch or dinner each day. All of the "independent living" rooms/apartments in five different facilities I've toured have full kitchens, and look like regular apartments to me.

Well, one of them has a motion detector in the kitchen, and if it hasn't detected any motion by 10:00 or so in the morning, then the staff will check on you, but other than that they leave you alone. Another has a button you push every morning just to confirm you're alive, and if you press it then they leave you alone. (Personally, I love this feature--not all independent living places offer these check-ins.)

Independent living units are for people who need only minimal help--often no help at all, or maybe something like medication management. They can appeal to people who don't want to maintain a house and don't want to cook every meal. (In fact, it's not uncommon for people to put on the Freshman Fifteen when they move into a place that serves them meals.)

I have a friend who was in a facility where all rooms were assisted living. He was there for five months before moving back home, and the difference between the assisted-living place and other places where there's a mix of independent living and assisted living is pronounced. I really didn't like the all-assisted- living place, but I've liked the ones that have a mix of independent and assisted living, and in some cases really liked them.

 

[TheWizard]

[In case it matters, I'm in Texas.]

If a facility is serving three meals a day to everyone, then that means all rooms in the facility are licensed as assisted living, and the rooms are likely to have at most a motel-like kitchenette. "Assisted living" is for people who can't do activities of daily living, like dressing, bathing, using the bathroom.

This is not the same as "independent living" rooms/apartments. Those aren't required to serve three meals a day, and typically they serve breakfast and a choice of either lunch or dinner each day. All of the "independent living" rooms/apartments in five different facilities I've toured have full kitchens, and look like regular apartments to me.

Well, one of them has a motion detector in the kitchen, and if it hasn't detected any motion by 10:00 or so in the morning, then the staff will check on you, but other than that they leave you alone. Another has a button you push every morning just to confirm you're alive, and if you press it then they leave you alone. (Personally, I love this feature--not all independent living places offer these check-ins.)

Independent living units are for people who need only minimal help--often no help at all, or maybe something like medication management. They can appeal to people who don't want to maintain a house and don't want to cook every meal. (In fact, it's not uncommon for people to put on the Freshman Fifteen when they move into a place that serves them meals.)

I have a friend who was in a facility where all rooms were assisted living. He was there for five months before moving back home, and the difference between the assisted-living place and other places where there's a mix of independent living and assisted living is pronounced. I really didn't like the all-assisted- living place, but I've liked the ones that have a mix of independent and assisted living, and in some cases really liked them.

It sounds like you know what you are talking about...

 

[jollystomper]

How do you get an ultra-frugal person to spend money to improve their life?

Well, my MIL is in the exact opposite situation - DW is fighting to get her to be more frugal and nicer, and not depend on her kids, to improve her life. Trust me, you do not want to be in this situation.

I agree with corn18, it will likely only get worse, so in truth maybe it is better for her to be frugal now, as the time will come where she will not have a choice. At that point the more money she has, the better off she will potentially be.

 

[corn18]

If you are the only people she’s got I hope all that money she insists on saving will be coming your way eventually. So sad about Pop.

I know what you are saying and that is the case, but I would just like to go over and visit her and not get tasked with doing things. She loves the Ravens and I used to go watch the games with her but I ended up with a todo list a mile long. So I don't go over anymore. She was supposed to come over for Xmas but we insisted she bring her nurse and she didn't like that so she didn't come. Seriously? You'd rather stay at the old geezer home with your helper than spend the day with your family? She tried like heck to cancel the nurse and come over, but we held our ground. We did that for Thanksgiving when she came over without her nurse and that turned into a bathroom disaster. Ruined everyone's day. If the nurse had been there, she could have done the "dirty" work. That's why it was an absolute no go for Xmas if the nurse didn't come. And she wouldn't come with her nurse.

Just shoot me if I get like this.

 

[audreyh1]

I know what you are saying and that is the case, but I would just like to go over and visit her and not get tasked with doing things. She loves the Ravens and I used to go watch the games with her but I ended up with a todo list a mile long. So I don't go over anymore. She was supposed to come over for Xmas but we insisted she bring her nurse and she didn't like that so she didn't come. Seriously? You'd rather stay at the old geezer home with your helper than spend the day with your family? She tried like heck to cancel the nurse and come over, but we held our ground. We did that for Thanksgiving when she came over without her nurse and that turned into a bathroom disaster. Ruined everyone's day. If the nurse had been there, she could have done the "dirty" work. That's why it was an absolute no go for Xmas if the nurse didn't come. And she wouldn't come with her nurse.

Just shoot me if I get like this.

Too bad. She’s obviously a control freak. Good for you for holding your ground. Unfortunately, it sounds like she’s beyond understanding how her behavior drives others away. Too bad about the Thanksgiving disaster.

 

[engineernerd]

There's a big difference between being frugal and being cheap.

Sadly corn18's and jollystomper's MILs both sound cheap.

 

[Kings over Queens]

I don't know if it's cheap or a deeper underlying mental issue. I don't mean to imply mental illness, but we all have our own "ticks" if that makes sense. For years I hated spending money on myself, it brought guilt. Like I wasn't worth it. At the same time these elderly parents may feel an obligation to go without so they can leave something for their kids. Meanwhile, their kids are successful and don't "need" it. Finally, something I alluded to earlier...they have a concern about running out of money.

It's a strange paradox.

 

[Kings over Queens]

I know what you are saying and that is the case, but I would just like to go over and visit her and not get tasked with doing things. She loves the Ravens and I used to go watch the games with her but I ended up with a todo list a mile long. So I don't go over anymore. She was supposed to come over for Xmas but we insisted she bring her nurse and she didn't like that so she didn't come. Seriously? You'd rather stay at the old geezer home with your helper than spend the day with your family? She tried like heck to cancel the nurse and come over, but we held our ground. We did that for Thanksgiving when she came over without her nurse and that turned into a bathroom disaster. Ruined everyone's day. If the nurse had been there, she could have done the "dirty" work. That's why it was an absolute no go for Xmas if the nurse didn't come. And she wouldn't come with her nurse.

Just shoot me if I get like this.

I don't mean to pry, but did she refuse based on the cost of the nurse, or some other reason?

We're facing a similar situation with my father in law and my daughters wedding next year. He's prone to bathroom accidents and my mother in law is stubborn. In our case it's not a money thing, and while we haven't peeled back the layers of the onion to it's core, I suspect it's a pride thing.

 

[pb4uski]

Both my uncle/aunt and DM lived in assisted living.

Uncle and some other guys had breakfast together and solved the world's problems every morning and then went on their way. He really enjoyed the comraderie. He and DA were in independent living but it had a meal plan and lots of activities, but nursing home care or memory care were in an adjacent building.

DM was in an assisted living facility that resembled a nice hotel. They helped her with her prescription meds and she had meals in the dining room. The dining room menu was four quadrants; breakfast, lunch, dinner and items available at any time of the day. They also had loads of activities like Jeopardy, bingo, periodic concerts, etc. it also had a salon and barber shop. She wasn't keen on it at first simply because it was a change, but she grew to really enjoy living there.

When the time is right, I will be happy to sign up for something like that.

 

[Koolau]

Just shoot me if I get like this.

Maybe we'll just shoot each other at the same time if it comes to that. I live in fear of going out like both my parents though they were much easier to manage than what you describe. Now, my MIL... Don't get me started. I could tell you stories.

 

[braumeister]

It goes both ways.
I used to gently nudge my mother toward moving into a really nice retirement community but I always just got "You're not going to put me in an institution!"

Finally, I couldn't cope with it anymore, and had to insist on it. Within a week I started getting "Why didn't you tell me about this years ago? It's wonderful living here and I have so many new friends!"

Fear of the unknown.

 

[iloveyoga]

My mom complains about where she lives and thinks she wants to move to independent living. That sounds like a great idea to me. It seems like a great quality of life upgrade. Then when we get serious about finding a place and the conversation changes to how expensive it will be and how hard it will be to move. She is blessed with having plenty of money but cursed with extreme frugalness. She currently lives in a nice place but otherwise lives at the poverty level using only her social security. The older she gets the worse the frugalness gets. She won't spend money on herself or anyone else.

She likes her broker, but I've never talked to him. Not sure if it's even allowed by law? I think he could persuade her to spend money.

How do you get an ultra-frugal person to spend money to improve their life?

Sounds so familiar! This year for the first time in my life, Mom did not give any Christmas presents. I help with her money, she has plenty. She gets a big kick out of not spending for some reason. I am trying to better, with success. Oh well!

 

[iloveyoga]

I'm not sure it's anyone else's business how we old folks spend our money.
At age 75, I spend plenty of money and could spend quite a bit more, but that's my decision on what to do.

Now if this "mom" is living in a decrepit situation with no heat, no electricity, no plumbing or whatever, then there are likely social services available to help deal with the situation.
But I didn't see that in the OP...

Exactly what I think about Mom, her business.

 

[iloveyoga]

I hope you can get her to spend money and enjoy gifting to her family. My mother wasted the last 20 yrs of her life not even willing to make a phone call because she thought it was an extra charge on her phone bill. A lot of good her 1.4 million NW did her.

Mom absolutely does not want to gift any of her money. I know better than to bring that up. For me, I have been gifting small amounts to my granddaughters in college and my grandson. At least they have stuff they want to buy.

 

[TheWizard]

It goes both ways.
I used to gently nudge my mother toward moving into a really nice retirement community but I always just got "You're not going to put me in an institution!"

Finally, I couldn't cope with it anymore, and had to insist on it. Within a week I started getting "Why didn't you tell me about this years ago? It's wonderful living here and I have so many new friends!"

Fear of the unknown.

I think you've nailed it...

 

[jollystomper]

There's a big difference between being frugal and being cheap.

Sadly corn18's and jollystomper's MILs both sound cheap.

I might not have been clear. At this point we want her to be cheap. Because she wants to spend like she still has a lot of money, on things she does not really need (but sees or hears what others have and thinks she "deserves" the same) while ignoring the additional costs her actions incur and the impact to her fragile financial situation.

 

[Atlantis]

I'll turn 78 in a couple weeks and am frugal and always have been since my childhood because my dad drilled it repeatedly to "always have money". I have a lot in cash and other investments that am doing well. I am thinking I might want to reduce some of my stock positions because of my age. I have no debts and I mean none. I recall people saying about elderly folks that suffered setbacks in 2008-9 "they never should have had so much in stocks at their ages" and they were right. It takes a long time to recoup losses and if you don't have a long time it speaks for itself. To me, I feel great know I can afford things that I in most cases never buy.

 

[Koolau]

I might want to reduce some of my stock positions because of my age.

Are you considering resetting your asset allocation? If so, I think it's valuable to consider your comfort level and age, etc. to make the change. What equity % lets you sleep well?

IOW don't just sell equities because you're getting older - do it because you've set a new asset allocation after reviewing the pros and cons

End of sermon and just my 2 cents worth so YMMV. All the best.