Good friend (67, not in great health) with SERIOUS OMY syndrome..advice?

[24601NoMore]

Hi, everyone. Looking for some advice on how to help/get through to a good friend who seems to have SERIOUS OMY syndrome. He's 67, turning 68 in November. Multiple health issues, including one that has a mid 80% survival rate over 5 years. Just lost his job, although he previously told me he planned to retire later this year - maybe late fall/early winter. Says he does not "need" to work for additional $$s - but only a couple of days after being let go is back at it..looking for another job.

His wife is 6-8 (don't remember) years younger than he is and has her own high paying gig & health care that he could get, though he's obviously eligible for Medicare. Great family with 4 girls, youngest now just going into college this year. Recent grand-dad. Is of strong faith and active in his church. So, a pretty darn full life outside of w*rk.

One would think that he'd see what seems so obvious..north of "typical" retirement age (65). Health issues, including one that may limit his remaining days. Financially set, with wife still working. Has a great family and lots of friends. Seems like a fantastic opportunity to get off the merry go round of corporate BS and call it a day.

He knows wife and I ER'd 5 years ago and have never had a day yet that we've been "bored", but this appears to be a big part of his hesitation to finally retire. I've assured him that he will most definitely NOT be bored at all, and he replied that "16 or 17 other retired friends of mine have told me the exact same thing". I think he also wants to "go out on top" (of his game) vs having a long career where the final chapter was getting tossed from his job.

Any suggestions on what if anything I can do to help him overcome the fear of boredom and "not going out on top"? It seems so inexplicable to want to keep at the w*rk thing given the things I mentioned above, and I'm concerned he'll always have OMY and may literally w*rk till he drops.

 

[badatmath]

Honestly just because you are not bored does not mean he won't be so I'm afraid I can't help with suggestions. I definitely have met people who went back to work after not being able to handle retirement.

 

[Kings over Queens]

Any suggestions on what if anything I can do to help him overcome the fear of boredom and "not going out on top"? It seems so inexplicable to want to keep at the w*rk thing given the things I mentioned above, and I'm concerned he'll always have OMY and may literally w*rk till he drops.

get him out doing things he likes. take him out for breakfast, or fishing. take him to the gym, or where ever it is you go to do things. Old habits die hard, so replace the old bad habit (work) with a new fun habit (golf).

 

[24601NoMore]

I probably should have also mentioned that the type of work he's in is FULL of Dilbertesque corporate BS. Lot of the usual stuff: unrealistic / unachievable expectations. Super long hours (to hit the unreasonable goals). Managers who got promoted not because they were good managers, but because they kissed the right ..., lots of time on the road, away from family. Needing to fly out on a weekend for idiotic/useless events, umpteen different spreadsheets to convey the exact same data, just because the inept managers/Directors/VPs all want to see things "their own way", etc. Lots of corporate politics. etc etc.

He and I have stayed in touch, and have had many conversations about how awful things are for him, and the garbage he has to put up with.

So, even more puzzling that anyone would want to throw themself back into that type of situation.

As I've told him many times "there is no greener grass" - at least in the industry he and I both worked in. It's all the same, no matter whose corporate logo is on the outside of the headquarters building. Just varying degrees of awful.

 

[Car-Guy]

Seems to me you have said it all, let him be.

 

[Texas Proud]

The problem is that YOU cannot change HIS mind....

This is not related to it but it brought something to my mind that I remember... I used to argue with a friend about the gold standard... back and forth a lot... so one day I asked my finance professor if he had any insight I could use (yes, it was when I was young)... he asked one question 'does your friend REALLY believe in the gold standard?'... I said yes he does... the professor said 'there is nothing you can say to change his mind' and walked off...

So, does he REALLY believe that he needs to work?

BTW, my brother is 70 and still working and has more money than his 5 siblings who all are retired and living great lives.... he just loves doing what he does and works from home and at the times he wants so sees no reason to change... he did say that if he is told he needs to come to the office he quits so there is that..

 

[pb4uski]

Sounds like my much younger than me entreprenurial brother-in-law when he sold his business he was almost immediately looking to start another business. I don't recall exactly, but I think he was in his mid 50s at the time if I recall correctly.

I suggested to him that he had been working hard for many years and should at least just take 12-18 months off before thinking about starting a new business. He never looked back and is enjoying life despite some health issues and enjoying his new grandson.

Suggest that he has worked hard to deserve taking 12-18 months off before making any big decision on returning to work. Also, given his health issues he should spend as much time as he can with his grandchildren.

And get over the fact that he didn't go out on his own terms. He was planning to retire soon anyway. Think of this as a blessing in disguise.

 

[SecondCor521]

Did he ask you for advice? If not, it may be that you think he has a problem but he doesn't agree with you.

If he did ask for advice, then as a friend you might offer your insight *on the topic he asked you about*. If you think he needs to retire but he wants help with his golf game, then offer opinions about how to read putts better, not how to quit his job.

ETA: "Not my circus, not my monkeys" is a phrase that helps me keep my focus on what I'm responsible for and have control over.

 

[24601NoMore]

The problem is that YOU cannot change HIS mind....

Yes..agreed.

The difference with my good friend's situation is that his work life has been generally terrible & often quite painful/filled with BS & politics. He's gone from job to job, never lasting more than a year or two at most - aside from when we worked together 20+ years ago.

Why anyone would want to keep doing that to themselves is beyond my ability to understand. I think there's something deeper and probably psychological going on in terms of having to be the provider, having to "go out on top", etc. But man, I hate to see him suffer so much. And as I told him yesterday, "we all only have so many days..don't waste them with this nonsense (well, I used a different word)". Sigh...

 

[Lorenzo]

You can't change his attitude. I'm sure it has been discussed at length on this board, but there are some people who define themselves by their work/career and will feel adrift when it's over. That was never me. I worked to live, not lived to work. In hindsight, if I had been more career-driven I could have accumulated more savings and retired earlier.

 

[Lorenzo]

Yes..agreed.

The difference with my good friend's situation is that his work life has been generally terrible & often quite painful/filled with BS & politics. He's gone from job to job, never lasting more than a year or two at most - aside from when we worked together 20+ years ago.

Why anyone would want to keep doing that to themselves is beyond my ability to understand. I think there's something deeper and probably psychological going on in terms of having to be the provider, having to "go out on top", etc. But man, I hate to see him suffer so much. And as I told him yesterday, "we all only have so many days..don't waste them with this nonsense (well, I used a different word)". Sigh...

Sounds kind of like an abusive relationship. He can't let the abuser go.

 

[Texas Proud]

I agree... my closest friend continues to work and he is 66... has a pension from previous work and a good pension from working for the city... and has been putting money aside for many years..

I think it is because he (and btw me also) grew up poor... not dirt poor, but poor enough... lucky for me I got over it...

 

[Gumby]

I would never presume to tell someone that they should retire. If they ask me specific questions about how I decided to retire and/or the mechanics of my retirement situation, I'll tell them. But the yes/no decision to retire is something we each have to do by ourselves.

 

[rodi]

I like the idea of inviting him out for fun activities and maybe he'll see that it's nice not having to kiss the right persons .... in order to get a paycheck.

Some people's identities are very tied up with their employment... it can be very hard to find a new identity. Early in my career I was laid off and I went through a crisis - can I call myself an engineer if I'm not working? It was very much part of how I identified myself. That was my first clue that I needed to get my ego/identity outside of my job. The other trigger was reading a Dave Barry "Don't confuse your career with your life"... that became my motto.

My BIL was FI but was hanging on knowing there was a big downsize coming. But COVID had put him in a sweet spot where he only had to go into the office every other month or so... He had historical knowledge of the industry and clients and technical standards so he added value... so his employer was happy keeping him on as an expert... He attended industry events and worked a lot via zoom, but it wasn't really full time work anymore. He said he would retire when he got the downsizing package... A few years ticked by. He finally got laid off with a healthy package and *immediately* started looking for work again. He was 67 and FI so there was no reason to go back to work. His wife was annoyed since he'd said he'd retire when he got laid off. She started booking vacations/cruises and encouraging him to play pickleball, go to the beach, etc. 6 months later he is now admitting he's retired and isn't looking for consulting gigs (at least not much) any more. Some people have a harder time seeing life beyond a career.

 

[24601NoMore]

Thanks, gang. I do think a big part of this is an "identity" thing. I can relate since he and I worked in the same industry in similar roles, and I struggled with that HUGELY when I made the decision to ER 5 years ago. It's "who we are". Except..it's really NOT. He was having a tough time of things the past weeks at work knowing this was likely coming, and I attempted to remind him he's not "X job title" but a loving husband, great dad to some amazing kids and a good friend to many..THAT'S what he is. He responded pretty positively to that saying he really appreciated it and that he'd try to remember that every single day for the rest of his life. Yet, now..he appears to be back struggling with "but I'm X job title".

Guess when any of us spend decades where w*rk is a huge part of "who we are" that it can be a real bugger to walk way from that part of our identity when the time finally comes.

 

[Midpack]

Seems to me you have said it all, let him be.

+1. It’s his decision, let him decide for himself. If you talk him into retiring and he’s bored or otherwise regrets it, then what - I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes? I’m not criticizing you for sharing your point of view with him, but we all need to make our own decisions on when to pull the trigger. Contrary to what some happy retirees here think, some people are happier and/or more fulfilled contributing to society as long as they can, even despite health issues. Different strokes…

 

[CO-guy]

I have a close childhood friend that is similar. When I left the full-time last year, his response was, (*shocked tone) "OMG! I can't believe you did that. I thought you were joking."

My plan had been in place for over five years, and I talked openly with him about it fairly regularly during that time. Compared to me, he has another zero at the end of his net worth, but plans to work into his 70s. He thinks I'm a fool for walking away during my "prime earning years" and I feel the same about his plan. To each their own.

 

[24601NoMore]

And get over the fact that he didn't go out on his own terms. He was planning to retire soon anyway. Think of this as a blessing in disguise.

I know..that's one of the craziest things about it, and I did try to point out the "blessing in disguise" angle just last night. He originally SAID he was going to be done no later than November. Then, seemed OK with only getting to end of their fiscal year (July 31) as there are "soft layoffs" going on throughout his department, and he had a good feeling July would pretty much be it for him, best case.

So, he got the shaft 5 weeks early. Always sucks when it happens (also happened to me at various points in my career), but if he was anticipating not being there as of 8/1 and originally being retired on his own terms as of Nov 1, I'm at a complete loss to understand what's motivating him to get right back on the horse. Unless, of course, he never DID intend to ACTUALLY be done, and would just find another reason to OMY once again..

I realize it's "his decision" but we are good friends and I hate to see the guy suffering so much. And he has suffered a lot in the last several jobs. Has not been a good time for him for at least the past 5 if not 10-15 years..we worked together at a great company 20'ish years ago. That gig was great. We both bounced around a lot after that, looking for the "greener grass" and a place like the one we both had worked at. Turned out to rare as a purple unicorn, so I slogged away to the point I realized it was likely gonna kill me, and ER'd at 55, five years ago. Very hard decision, but the right one and even though I miss my w*rk "identity" am darn glad in hindsight that I did bail.

 

[Dtail]

Yes..agreed.

The difference with my good friend's situation is that his work life has been generally terrible & often quite painful/filled with BS & politics. He's gone from job to job, never lasting more than a year or two at most - aside from when we worked together 20+ years ago.

Why anyone would want to keep doing that to themselves is beyond my ability to understand. I think there's something deeper and probably psychological going on in terms of having to be the provider, having to "go out on top", etc. But man, I hate to see him suffer so much. And as I told him yesterday, "we all only have so many days..don't waste them with this nonsense (well, I used a different word)". Sigh...

If he is willing to "suffer so much", why does it bother you more than him?
We have seen various threads of this nature and the general responses are the same.
You know the answer already.

 

[Aerides]

IIRC you had to be talked off the OMY-ledge more than once twice a lot, so you might not be the best friend for advice here

But, perhaps focus on how good things have been for you since you actually retired. Rather than seeking to heal the wounds he's currently feeling, just be a sympathetic ear on that, and gently point his vision to the future, when if feels right.

 

[pacergal]

Is he really suffering? Does he call and complain to you a lot? Has he talked about retiring in the past? If so, what were his thoughts?
Having a younger wife, who is still working and has a high paying job, perhaps he feels he needs to keep up?
Some folks simply are unable to "retire", relax and see a different non working world. He may be one of them.
We never really know the relationships and financials of others. Perhaps you are not privy to the full story.
You can only do so much, it is their (he and wife) decision when they choose to retire, together or individually.
Be a friend, and simply listen, enjoy any time you have with him.

 

[Sunset]

Maybe he likes to complain about all the woes he suffers, I know a fellow like that, all he does is complain about work when he worked. Now that he is retired he complains about retirement, or various other people.

Could be his work is supplying him with ego benefits or bragging rights that he likes a lot more than golf..

 

[24601NoMore]

IIRC you had to be talked off the OMY-ledge more than once twice a lot, so you might not be the best friend for advice here

But, perhaps focus on how good things have been for you since you actually retired. Rather than seeking to heal the wounds he's currently feeling, just be a sympathetic ear on that, and gently point his vision to the future, when if feels right.

LOL. Yeah, I think you're probably right on that..

Is he really suffering? Does he call and complain to you a lot? Has he talked about retiring in the past? If so, what were his thoughts?
Having a younger wife, who is still working and has a high paying job, perhaps he feels he needs to keep up?
Some folks simply are unable to "retire", relax and see a different non working world. He may be one of them.
We never really know the relationships and financials of others. Perhaps you are not privy to the full story.
You can only do so much, it is their (he and wife) decision when they choose to retire, together or individually.
Be a friend, and simply listen, enjoy any time you have with him.

Yep. We talk often, and while I wouldn't necessarily say "complaining", he does vent often about the crazy BS that goes on. And he's usually well justified as the stuff he (and I when I worked in the same business) is expected to put up with is absolutely nuts.

Good point about needing to keep up with the wife. They both have similar job titles/roles, and just guessing but it could be that there's a guy need to always be the provider, etc. Stepping back from that has gotta be hard. Fortunately, wife and I had similar levels of compensation, similar levels of responsibility, and while I jumped first, she followed roughly 6 months later - so it all worked out for us.

 

[jollystomper]

I realize it's "his decision" but we are good friends and I hate to see the guy suffering so much.

You and he may have different definitions of "suffering".

As much as you think he is "suffering", he may see it as worthwhile to support his own personal needs and desires to feel "needed". Some folks see the "suffering" as a noble cause.

Lots of people do not want to retire, regardless of what one thinks they may be suffering, as they get personal value of of their work more than they see retirement - particularly if they have nothing to retire to.

Also, many folks, as much money as they have, are still uncomfortable without some steady income flow beyond from what they have saved. Maybe he hears the many "horror" stories in the media of bad things that can happen financially in retirement, and wants to avoid that.

All you can do is be his friend, listen, and respond in this area *if* he asks you about it. Not much you can do beyond that, in my view.

 

[24601NoMore]

Appreciate all the replies. You guys have helped me realize I should keep my opinions on what he should do next to myself. But there's a lot I wasn't able to include about what all led up to this - without writing a book. And some things that are private and for that reason I didn't share. Just suffice it to say he and I have talked OFTEN over many, many years now on how much w*rk has sucked for him (and me, prior to me bailing 5 years ago), so it kills me to see a person I care a lot about go through all that yet again - given he's literally out of a job only 5-6 weeks earlier than he thought he'd be. That's why I think he has "serious OMY" syndrome, not that it's my right to judge or try to change his mind. I'm just trying in my own clumsy, awkward way to help as we're good friends, and having blazed this trail already "could" share some of my own experiences that he may find helpful. Retiring and leaving a big part of your "identity" behind for good is a tough transition for anyone, especially when it's not on your own ("go out on top") terms.