Group Tours

[Gumby]

..."Forced shopping" can be quite subtle -- going for example to a carpet weaving "demonstration" where they just happen to have carpets for sale. ....

We faced exactly this scenario in Egypt, but I found no problems with it because;

a. the demonstration was interesting;
b. we never buy anything on vacation, mainly because our house is full already;
c. everyone has to make a living and the people making the carpets, and the guides, are trying to do just that; and
d. it's not all that hard to say "la shukran" (no thank you).

 

[Scrapr]

Will be trying a Stay and Explore tour with them next year - 7 nights in one hotel with daily outings. This will have pros and cons - no packing/unpacking every night or two, but also limitations in how far one can go and return in a day. Choose not to do one of the daily excursions and make your own plans. Don't feel well? - skip that days crowded bus ride and stay close to hotel. We're looking forward to trying this out

We did a "Staycation" tour in Rome last year. Same thing...7 days in the same hotel. We enjoyed not moving place to place every day. There is enough to see in Rome that was not an issue of running out of things to do

 

[Gallaher]

On a group tour now, Egypt. Friendly Planet 10 people. I did buy the carpet because my wife likes it and I can afford it.
We have done a few. Prefer small groups..less than twenty peps.
We prefer to travel independently by ourselves. However, in some situations a guide is invaluable. They know where to go, who to bribe what to pass up.

 

[SecondAttempt]

I am not a fan of group tours but that is not to say I don't think you should do one. I think it is a personal choice. I have traveled a lot and frankly I prefer the direct interaction with locals even when it becomes a little dicey. I've had a lot of meaningful encounters that I will always remember that would not have happened on a group tour.

 

[JoeWras]

We faced exactly this scenario in Egypt, but I found no problems with it because;

a. the demonstration was interesting;
b. we never buy anything on vacation, mainly because our house is full already;
c. everyone has to make a living and the people making the carpets, and the guides, are trying to do just that; and
d. it's not all that hard to say "la shukran" (no thank you).

And in Greece or Turkey, they usually give you free booze. Softens you up. We only bought a small icon at a Greek icon art shop. The Ouzo may had had an impact.

An amazing number on our smallish tour bus in Turkey (18 of us) bought some rugs. Some were pretty pricey, like in the $10k range. The salesman/demonstrator then came to the USA and personally delivered them. Then he actually sold more carpets on the spot, right here in the USA, in their home! Our friends loved that guy.

 

[Badger]

We are not fans of spending time in a bus full of people as we travel. All of our travel has been driving on our own except for one Bike and Barge trip in the Netherlands and Belgium where we shared a barge with 20 other people.

We did our own 14 day driving tour of Scotland in a rented car and had a great time from Edinburg to Dundee, Aberdeen, Inverness, Skye, Ft Williams, etc. visiting castles, hiking, and a side trip on the "Hogwarts Express" steam train.
The only downside was frustration learning to drive on the right side of the road.

 

[audreyh1]

I do all the driving at home. So I really enjoy the vacation from driving when traveling in Europe. We actually enjoy the extensive public transportation options in Europe even if we aren’t otherwise traveling in a group. Most of our extensive independent travel in Europe has been done using public transportation. Car rental is a last resort.

 

[athena53]

We faced exactly this scenario in Egypt, but I found no problems with it because;
<snip>

I agree- on the OAT tours we have some of these excursions but not an excessive number. It's usually some small family-owned business. It beats buying stuff made in China out of a shop on the main street. My purchases are generally small pieces of artwork, jewelry or clothing- I'm about to bring out a lovely alpaca sweater and an alpaca wrap bought in Peru and another from Bolivia, now that the weather is cold.

 

[Lorenzo]

I have long scoffed at group tours as something that older people do. We young people travel independently, using public transportation or a rental car if we absolutely must, right? And we stay in hostels and trot around with our backpacks, right? Well, my stance on group tours has softened, I suppose in part because I am rapidly becoming one of said "older people." But also because I have realized a group tour can be a more efficient use of time.

On a trip to France a few years ago we had a car and planned to cover a lot. My wife had been to the regions we were visiting years ago (okay, decades ago) and believed she knew enough that we didn't need to plan meticulously. But things had changed. Parking was more difficult than anticipated. At least a couple of times we drove around and around a city center, navigating a maze of one-way streets, looking for parking. Meanwhile, tour groups were dropped off by their bus and on their merry way. On a few occasions we discovered we were at a sight that happened to be closed that day; we should have more strategically planned our days so we would arrive when the thing we wanted to see was open. Sure, that's a rookie mistake and could be avoided with more detailed planning, but we had long enjoyed sightseeing by the seat of our pants and didn't like the idea of being tied to a schedule. We spent a lot of time spinning our wheels on that trip. After that trip, I conceded to myself that a group tour can maximize what you see in the amount of time you have. We have yet to take one and have continued our independent travel ways for the time being, but I can see us doing them eventually.

The one thing my wife and I would dislike about a group tour would be group meals. We are very particular about food and experiencing local foodways. For example, on that France trip one of the most memorable meals was foraging at a seafood market in Normandy for cooked crab and gorging on it with fresh bread and butter on a picnic table at a rest stop by the road. You don't get that kind of experience with a typical group tour. We've had many more such quirky food experiences and would not want to give that up. But life is full of compromises.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I have long scoffed at group tours as something that older people do. We young people travel independently, using public transportation or a rental car if we absolutely must, right? And we stay in hostels and trot around with our backpacks, right? Well, my stance on group tours has softened, I suppose in part because I am rapidly becoming one of said "older people." But also because I have realized a group tour can be a more efficient use of time.

On a trip to France a few years ago we had a car and planned to cover a lot. My wife had been to the regions we were visiting years ago (okay, decades ago) and believed she knew enough that we didn't need to plan meticulously. But things had changed. Parking was more difficult than anticipated. At least a couple of times we drove around and around a city center, navigating a maze of one-way streets, looking for parking. Meanwhile, tour groups were dropped off by their bus and on their merry way. On a few occasions we discovered we were at a sight that happened to be closed that day; we should have more strategically planned our days so we would arrive when the thing we wanted to see was open. Sure, that's a rookie mistake and could be avoided with more detailed planning, but we had long enjoyed sightseeing by the seat of our pants and didn't like the idea of being tied to a schedule. We spent a lot of time spinning our wheels on that trip. After that trip, I conceded to myself that a group tour can maximize what you see in the amount of time you have. We have yet to take one and have continued our independent travel ways for the time being, but I can see us doing them eventually.

The one thing my wife and I would dislike about a group tour would be group meals. We are very particular about food and experiencing local foodways. For example, on that France trip one of the most memorable meals was foraging at a seafood market in Normandy for cooked crab and gorging on it with fresh bread and butter on a picnic table at a rest stop by the road. You don't get that kind of experience with a typical group tour. We've had many more such quirky food experiences and would not want to give that up. But life is full of compromises.

The group meals is a concern for us. It is one of the reasons we choose a tour where only not every dinner and almost no lunches are group affairs. We often travel just for the food so we will be doing some tasting of the local offerings on our own for sure

 

[Chuckanut]

I have long scoffed at group tours as something that older people do. We young people travel independently, using public transportation or a rental car if we absolutely must, right? And we stay in hostels and trot around with our backpacks, right? Well, my stance on group tours has softened, I suppose in part because I am rapidly becoming one of said "older people." But also because I have realized a group tour can be a more efficient use of time.

When I travel overseas on my own I use a good tour book. They should have the information on the days the Museum of Napkin Folding is closed, how often the guard is changed at the Ruckinghum Palace, and such.

Check to see if the company that publishes the tour book has a list of updates on their website. Often there is a long time between gathering the data and the time the book hits the bookstores. I did not do that on one trip and got messed up taking public transit from the airport to the hotel. Nothing matched what the Rick Steves tour book said. Had I checked, I would have seen the updated information in great detail was on the RS website. Foolish me.

 

[brett]

Over the years we have had far more accurate, and up to date, info on in country travel from tripadvisor posts and from Lonely Planet guides (always check the date of issue). Ditto for the Rough Guides series.

I typically get several different guides from the library for review before deciding which one to buy.

One benefit of Tripadvisor forums is that you can post a question and get an up to date answer from a local. We have been able to find, and engage, a number of local guides on the basis of these recommendations.

Nothing wrong with Ric Steves books. We read them, they include good info, but they are certainly not our only source of travel data nor are they the be all and end all of travel books.

 

[Sunset]

We are not fans of spending time in a bus full of people as we travel. All of our travel has been driving on our own except for one Bike and Barge trip in the Netherlands and Belgium where we shared a barge with 20 other people.

We did our own 14 day driving tour of Scotland in a rented car and had a great time from Edinburg to Dundee, Aberdeen, Inverness, Skye, Ft Williams, etc. visiting castles, hiking, and a side trip on the "Hogwarts Express" steam train.
The only downside was frustration learning to drive on the right side of the road.

Hopefully you mean the Left side of the road

 

[braumeister]

Hopefully you mean the Left side of the road

Maybe, but I have to agree with Badger that driving on the right in Scotland can be extremely frustrating, not to mention dangerous.

Actually, I think he meant right hand drive (steering wheel on the right).

 

[OldShooter]

Hopefully you mean the Left side of the road

The problem was all that traffic coming the other way on the right side.

Actually, I don't mind driving in countries that use the Roman alphabet so I have street signs DW/Navigator can read and follow on the GPS or map. Switching sides left/right can be a little disconcerting but having done it a number of times it doesn't bother me much any more. The biggest problem I had was in a rented RV in New Zealand. It was diesel and undepowered so a lot of shifting in the mountains. Problem was I was (and still am) no good at shifting with my left hand.

I have long scoffed at group tours as something that older people do. ... I am rapidly becoming one of said "older people." But also because I have realized a group tour can be a more efficient use of time.

... At least a couple of times we drove around and around a city center, navigating a maze of one-way streets, looking for parking. ... On a few occasions we discovered we were at a sight that happened to be closed that day; we should have more strategically planned our days so we would arrive when the thing we wanted to see was open. ... After that trip, I conceded to myself that a group tour can maximize what you see in the amount of time you have. We have yet to take one and have continued our independent travel ways for the time being, but I can see us doing them eventually.

Yes to all. As mentioned upthread, our solution where possible is to travel with a private guide/driver. That is maximum efficiency. One time taking the Garden Route out of Cape Town we got to an intersection where we could have driven to the southernmost tip of the continent. I would have done it, but our good guide friend Pierre said "We could do that but there is nothing there to see and it is a four-hour one-way drive." And of course the guides know the best things to see and when to go. Same on restaurants. Pierre took us to "Codfather" in Cape Town, for one of our more memorable meals. In Moscow we hired a private guide who picked us up at the Viking pier and whisked us down town on the Metro, far ahead of the boat's bus victims on their half hour trip in traffic. So that is our method to equal or exceed group efficiency while avoiding groups.

 

[Lorenzo]

. . .

Yes to all. As mentioned upthread, our solution where possible is to travel with a private guide/driver. That is maximum efficiency. One time taking the Garden Route out of Cape Town we got to an intersection where we could have driven to the southernmost tip of the continent. I would have done it, but our good guide friend Pierre said "We could do that but there is nothing there to see and it is a four-hour one-way drive." And of course the guides know the best things to see and when to go. Same on restaurants. Pierre took us to "Codfather" in Cape Town, for one of our more memorable meals. In Moscow we hired a private guide who picked us up at the Viking pier and whisked us down town on the Metro, far ahead of the boat's bus victims on their half hour trip in traffic. So that is our method to equal or exceed group efficiency while avoiding groups.

Private guide with car can indeed provide the best of both worlds, so long as it fits one's budget. On occasion, we have hired a private guide with a car to drive us around, take us to see the sights, wait for us outside famous eating spots, etc. In somewhere like Bali or Egypt, we could afford that. No way in, say, France.

 

[OldShooter]

Private guide with car can indeed provide the best of both worlds, so long as it fits one's budget. On occasion, we have hired a private guide with a car to drive us around, take us to see the sights, wait for us outside famous eating spots, etc. In somewhere like Bali or Egypt, we could afford that. No way in, say, France.

Agreed on cost. We did a self-drive in Norway for that rea$on, but did hire a guide for our first day in Oslo. She helped us plan the next days. We also like to ride the hop-on, hop-off busses as an introduction to a city. Most groups can't do those.

Re meals, we always invite our guide to join us, our treat, for all meals. We learn as much or more about a country's politics and home life over lunches and dinners as we do walking around hearing building dates and sculptors' names. We had a fairly experienced guide in Myanmar one time and ended up getting invited to see his house and meet his family. He told us that we were the first clients he had ever done that with. Sharing meals is a way to build that kind of rapport.

 

[brett]

Most of our travel is independent and often very spontaneous. We frequently hire local guides.

As an example, we hired a private guide in Siem Reap for 1.5 days in Siem Reap that was recommended in Tripadvisor. He was excellent. College prof. Picked up up at 8AM sharp, back to our hotel, swimming pool and cold beer, before the extreme heat of the day. Got us to the popular spots before any tours arrived.

Ditto for places like Havana, Sydney, Ephesus, Da Lat, Hue, Phon Phen, etc.

 

[athena53]

Private guide with car can indeed provide the best of both worlds, so long as it fits one's budget. On occasion, we have hired a private guide with a car to drive us around, take us to see the sights, wait for us outside famous eating spots, etc. In somewhere like Bali or Egypt, we could afford that. No way in, say, France.

Doesn't have to include a car, either! DH and I were in St. Petersburg, Russia in 2003. We had private guides on 3 days but the most memorable trip was to Pushkin (Originally Tsarskoe Selo, where the Czar and his family were held captive). He led us through the Underground trains and then we took two minibuses to our destination. It was a totally informal system, Georgian drivers, each bus with a number on a piece of cardboard at the front windshield. You got in, sat down, passed your fare up through the riders ahead of you and they the passed your change back to you. I've never seen anything like it anywhere else and it's not something we would have tried n our own.

Just saw OldShooter's post. We invited him for a drink afterwards, too- our treat also. Great conversations.

 

[Chuckanut]

Maybe, but I have to agree with Badger that driving on the right in Scotland can be extremely frustrating, not to mention dangerous.

Actually, I think he meant right hand drive (steering wheel on the right).

Driving is the second biggest problem. Crossing the streets is the number one problem. I spent my first days in the UK mastering the art of looking the other way before crossing a road. Otherwise….. one less tourist to worry about.

 

[Lorenzo]

Most of our travel is independent and often very spontaneous. We frequently hire local guides.

As an example, we hired a private guide in Siem Reap for 1.5 days in Siem Reap that was recommended in Tripadvisor. He was excellent. College prof. Picked up up at 8AM sharp, back to our hotel, swimming pool and cold beer, before the extreme heat of the day. Got us to the popular spots before any tours arrived.

Ditto for places like Havana, Sydney, Ephesus, Da Lat, Hue, Phon Phen, etc.

How do you find these people? The few times we used guides, they were recommended to us by other travelers we happened to meet, and they gave us their guide's phone or WhatsApp number to call, and the guide happened to be available the next day. But that requires a bit of luck. We traveled all through Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam, but never found (or looked for) a private guide. I suppose travel discussion forums like Tripadvisor's would be a place to ask for recommendations, but we don't tend to do much online research before we go. Book the plane tickets, buy the Lonely Planet, and read what we can in the days before departure and highlight things that sound interesting and a route to take. Once there, though, we find we spend too much time trying to figure out the logistical details--making it all fit without wasting too much time--as I lamented upthread. Hence our interest in group tours as mentioned by the OP. But using private guides more often would be a good alternative to group tours--if we could find good ones who are available.

 

[braumeister]

Driving is the second biggest problem. Crossing the streets is the number one problem. I spent my first days in the UK mastering the art of looking the other way before crossing a road. Otherwise….. one less tourist to worry about.

Not just the UK. Tourists in Amsterdam are always flummoxed by the fast moving bicycles, and many don't seem to realize when they're walking in a bike lane.
A friend there once told me that when you hear the sound of a bicycle bell, it's not a warning, but rather a celebration that means someone just took out another unwary tourist.

 

[brett]

How do you find these people? The few times we used guides, they were recommended to us by other travelers we happened to meet, and they gave us their guide's phone or WhatsApp number to call, and the guide happened to be available the next day. But that requires a bit of luck. We traveled all through Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam, but never found (or looked for) a private guide. I suppose travel discussion forums like Tripadvisor's would be a place to ask for recommendations, but we don't tend to do much online research before we go. Book the plane tickets, buy the Lonely Planet, and read what we can in the days before departure and highlight things that sound interesting and a route to take. Once there, though, we find we spend too much time trying to figure out the logistical details--making it all fit without wasting too much time--as I lamented upthread. Hence our interest in group tours as mentioned by the OP. But using private guides more often would be a good alternative to group tours--if we could find good ones who are available.

Just about all of them have come from recommendations on a Tripadvisor forum. More than often the question has been asked by others and there are a few. In Siem Reap we picked two. One was not available, the other was. Bingo, we were set up, Did it the day we flew into Siem Reap. Ditto for our Da Lat tour. The Hue day car tour was recommended by the clerk at our hotel. We found that SE Asia, especially Viet Nam and Cambodia were the absolute easiest places to get good local guides. Cuba was a snap as well. Got a local Havana guide via tripadvisor before leaving. He recommned an B&B. Told us how to get the bus from our resort in Veradaro, where to get off to meet him. And how/where to get the bus back to Veradaro the following afternoon.

The one thing we never bother with is restaurant recs...especially those in Ric Steves. Too crowded and restaurants change owners, chefs, frequently. We generally have no issues sussing out someone very local and well frequented by locals....for a reason! Besides, we do not have much interest in eating at a place that is full of tourists...we very much prefer the ambiance of locals!

 

[OldShooter]

How do you find these people?

With the ascendance of the internet it is not really hard. There are services like toursbylocals. com (Book Authentic Private Tours with Local Tour Guides | Guided Tours by ToursByLocals). Many of them have their own sites too, like Tour Bulgaria with Patrick - the private guide. and Your Own Tour – Custom Trips I prefer to deal direct with the guide candidates rather than through the filter of a booking site. I also like that all of the fee then goes to the guide.

I will start by searching for "private guide whatevercountry" That produces a lot of hits to sort through. My priority is to find an individual offering guiding, not a tour company. I then send inquiries describing our interest, our dates, etc. and read carefully what I get back. I want to sense that the guide is interested in customizing our time with them, not just running us through one of several canned itineraries. You can get a really good sense of a person in just a few exchanges and Zoom makes it even easier. I then ask for two or three references from people who have recently traveled with the guide; within the last three months for example. Everyone has a standard list of references they provide. That's not what I want.

Finally, I have a sort of travelers' resume that I send, describing us, our interests, our previous travel experiences, etc. One thing I specify is that we want older guides. The enthusiastic kids know the dates of all the paintings, royalty, and battles but do not have the life experience to talk to us about the country, its history, and current politics. The candidate guide's reaction to this is kind of the final test. If they come back having read it carefully and full of ideas, that's probably the winner.

I don't think we have ever had a dud. But so what if we do? It will work out. We had a guy in Ethiopa who showed up drunk for our first evening meeting at the hotel. Even that worked itself out and we had a good time overall.

 

[Lorenzo]

With the ascendance of the internet it is not really hard. There are services like toursbylocals. com (Book Authentic Private Tours with Local Tour Guides | Guided Tours by ToursByLocals). Many of them have their own sites too, like Tour Bulgaria with Patrick - the private guide. and yourowntour.it I prefer to deal direct with the guide candidates rather than through the filter of a booking site. I also like that all of the fee then goes to the guide.

I will start by searching for "private guide whatevercountry" That produces a lot of hits to sort through. My priority is to find an individual offering guiding, not a tour company. I then send inquiries describing our interest, our dates, etc. and read carefully what I get back. I want to sense that the guide is interested in customizing our time with them, not just running us through one of several canned itineraries. You can get a really good sense of a person in just a few exchanges and Zoom makes it even easier. I then ask for two or three references from people who have recently traveled with the guide; within the last three months for example. Everyone has a standard list of references they provide. That's not what I want.

Finally, I have a sort of travelers' resume that I send, describing us, our interests, our previous travel experiences, etc. One thing I specify is that we want older guides. The enthusiastic kids know the dates of all the paintings, royalty, and battles but do not have the life experience to talk to us about the country, its history, and current politics. The candidate guide's reaction to this is kind of the final test. If they come back having read it carefully and full of ideas, that's probably the winner.

I don't think we have ever had a dud. But so what if we do? It will work out. We had a guy in Ethiopa who showed up drunk for our first evening meeting at the hotel. Even that worked itself out and we had a good time overall.

Thanks. That’s more research than I’m accustomed to doing, but seems it could be worth the effort.