Grumpy Old Man or Sage Mentor?

[MichaelB]

Old buddy at w*rk would hear someone trying to come up with that old saying and he would always offer: "You can lead a fish to swim but you can't drink a horse" whereupon everyone would throw something at him.



I guess you hadda be there.

Yeah, I think so. I can understand wanting to throw something. Sharpie pen, balled up paper, even a shoe.

But, yeah, the selective hearing issue was always rampant whenever even a suggestion of changing behavior was brought up - especially about spending/saving/investing.

+1 and add health to the list.

 

[Koolau]

Yeah, I think so. I can understand wanting to throw something. Sharpie pen, balled up paper, even a shoe.

+1 and add health to the list.

Yeah, we w*rked in a lab, so one had to be careful what was being thrown!

 

[MichaelH13]

I'm an old engineer working with many young engineers. Technically, I've made my bones, published papers, successfully architected projects, etc. and have not been aged out at my advanced age. I'm at peak earnings and doing pretty well professionally and plan to retire later this year at 68 by my choice.

That said, I'm trying to figure out if my attitude towards some of the younger engineers is that of a grumpy old man or a sage advisor. Most of them know I'm FI and doing well but I don't flash my wealth or show off in pretentious ways at the workplace. I'm hip to new trends and can keep up intellectually with the younger ones. I am very aware of my standing, I dress casually in jeans and t-shirt at work (normal attire in Silicon Valley), stay relatively fit and don't slouch or move around slowly, keep my full head of hair trimmed and fortunately I'm only grey around the ears so genetically, I'm relatively youthful looking.

That said, we have semi-annual ESPP and quarterly RSU vestings. For young guys it can be significant depending on where they are in their packages, some doubling or tripling their base salary in terms of packages. As a manager I have access to some of the data so I know they are going pretty well in terms of their packages.

What I'm seeing with some (most of the Asian immigrant green card holders exempted from this discussion) of these young engineers is a severe lack of ability to save and a propensity to spend and borrow. I hear conversations about credit card interest rates, which cards have good balance transfer promotions, car loan and car lease rates and terms. I keep my mouth shut and just listen. It is amazing the way these guys can blow through cash (the few female engineers do not join in these casual conversations so I have no visibility). These guys have minimum $175K packages and many are over $300K. You wouldn't know it based on the things they talk about. The indulgences in dining, partying, vacations, cars and recreation are very surprising and that is where I question my incredulity as just being a grumpy old man or what

Many of these guys don't own and just rent expensive apartments. The entry level home in this area is about $1.5M so it is difficult to get started, I get that, but with the packages these guys earn it can be done with a little austerity and savings coupled to disciplined spending habits they can probably afford to enter home ownership within 5-7 years of serious savings and compounded returns on an S&P index fund.

One co-worker is in the process of buying a new vehicle, $120K and buying it on a lease until vesting comes to the rescue in the near future. Is this the normal way to live or am I justified in my head-shaking? They all talk about investing and ask me for advice because they know I've been successful at it. I simply tell them at their age and income level they should just shove as much into their 401-K, convert as much as possible to Roth and always let it sit in 500-index funds (which we have access to in our plan). Talk is cheap and most of them say it takes too much of their paycheck to save the maximum. I tell them if they do the max they can think about retiring in 20 years or otherwise think about working until you die to survive because your savings and SS is not going to allow you to maintain your lifestyle.

I'm willing to admit to being grumpy old man and then just keep my mouth shut. I'm wondering if I should just keep a muzzle on my opinions about saving and let them have their fun and head into their senior years in financial distress or worse. It is none of my business what they do with their money but if they come asking I'm not sure what to say.

You’re not a grumpy old man—you’re a realist who’s lived long enough to see how fast time flies and how compounding (or the lack of it) plays out over decades. I think your approach is spot on: listen more than preach, and when they ask, keep the advice simple and direct—like you’ve been doing. Most won’t get it until they hit a life bump or start feeling burnout. But a few will remember what you said, and you might be the quiet influence that helps them course-correct before it’s too late.

Keep being the steady presence. You’ve earned it, and someone’s listening—whether they show it now or not.

 

[HFWR]

Yeah, we w*rked in a lab, so one had to be careful what was being thrown!

As long as it was lint-free.

I turned my older brother onto Firecalc, which helped to ease him into retirement.

 

[William38]

I'm an old engineer working with many young engineers. Technically, I've made my bones, published papers, successfully architected projects, etc. and have not been aged out at my advanced age. I'm at peak earnings and doing pretty well professionally and plan to retire later this year at 68 by my choice.

That said, I'm trying to figure out if my attitude towards some of the younger engineers is that of a grumpy old man or a sage advisor. Most of them know I'm FI and doing well but I don't flash my wealth or show off in pretentious ways at the workplace. I'm hip to new trends and can keep up intellectually with the younger ones. I am very aware of my standing, I dress casually in jeans and t-shirt at work (normal attire in Silicon Valley), stay relatively fit and don't slouch or move around slowly, keep my full head of hair trimmed and fortunately I'm only grey around the ears so genetically, I'm relatively youthful looking.

That said, we have semi-annual ESPP and quarterly RSU vestings. For young guys it can be significant depending on where they are in their packages, some doubling or tripling their base salary in terms of packages. As a manager I have access to some of the data so I know they are going pretty well in terms of their packages.

What I'm seeing with some (most of the Asian immigrant green card holders exempted from this discussion) of these young engineers is a severe lack of ability to save and a propensity to spend and borrow. I hear conversations about credit card interest rates, which cards have good balance transfer promotions, car loan and car lease rates and terms. I keep my mouth shut and just listen. It is amazing the way these guys can blow through cash (the few female engineers do not join in these casual conversations so I have no visibility). These guys have minimum $175K packages and many are over $300K. You wouldn't know it based on the things they talk about. The indulgences in dining, partying, vacations, cars and recreation are very surprising and that is where I question my incredulity as just being a grumpy old man or what

Many of these guys don't own and just rent expensive apartments. The entry level home in this area is about $1.5M so it is difficult to get started, I get that, but with the packages these guys earn it can be done with a little austerity and savings coupled to disciplined spending habits they can probably afford to enter home ownership within 5-7 years of serious savings and compounded returns on an S&P index fund.

One co-worker is in the process of buying a new vehicle, $120K and buying it on a lease until vesting comes to the rescue in the near future. Is this the normal way to live or am I justified in my head-shaking? They all talk about investing and ask me for advice because they know I've been successful at it. I simply tell them at their age and income level they should just shove as much into their 401-K, convert as much as possible to Roth and always let it sit in 500-index funds (which we have access to in our plan). Talk is cheap and most of them say it takes too much of their paycheck to save the maximum. I tell them if they do the max they can think about retiring in 20 years or otherwise think about working until you die to survive because your savings and SS is not going to allow you to maintain your lifestyle.

I'm willing to admit to being grumpy old man and then just keep my mouth shut. I'm wondering if I should just keep a muzzle on my opinions about saving and let them have their fun and head into their senior years in financial distress or worse. It is none of my business what they do with their money but if they come asking I'm not sure what to say.

I don’t think you’re being grumpy—I think you’re seeing patterns that only time and experience reveal. I’ve been in a similar spot, and what I’ve found is this: you can’t teach urgency to someone who hasn’t been blindsided yet. But you can be the person who plants a seed.

It sounds like you’re already doing that by being approachable, living well, and keeping your advice straightforward. That matters more than you think. A younger engineer I used to mentor once told me years later that a five-minute chat we had about saving changed the way he handled money—he just needed time to come around.

So no, don’t muzzle yourself completely. Just keep it low-key and leave the door open. They’ll remember you long after they forget the flashy cars and late-night happy hours.

 

[Walt34]

Maybe once they are out of college and have to earn a living reality will smack them in the face.

That does sometimes happen. When I was in high school my father was the dumbest fool east of the Mississippi River, but by the time I was 21 he sure had learned a lot!

 

[Oldtymer]

I was a construction worker and my wife was a waitress. Our cars are 13 and 17 years old. Still live in the first house we bought( all remodeled and updated). Put a kid thru college with no gov. help. Just makes me laugh when I read about young people pissing their money away and then looking for handouts. Laugh even harder when I'm loading lumber for a cash job in my hatchback next to a 75,000 pick up. I have an old car, crappy clothes and spend winters in warm weather. Then they wonder why people are tired of hearing their complaining. Maybe I'm another old disgruntled person.

 

[HFWR]

It’s almost like we’re referred to as “consumers”.

 

[Time2]

I don't think you are being grumpy. You know how these young people could change there future, and it's not hard, they just need a push. I have often thought about making a short course with showing the positives of doing the saving and invest (incentives) and then just the basics of how.
You might start asking the young engineers if they have any interest in an hour meeting on how to provide themselves a better financial future. If enough say yes, or even a few, mentor them.
In my opinion providing for our retirement was a very simple process, but so many people don't seem to do it.
You might actually help someone.

 

[dobig]

An extreme example of the spending habits of Silicone Valley engineers. About 18 months ago my wife's company was trying to hire a software engineer. He was offered a package of around $835,000 (base, bonus, RSU's). It took them an additional week to onboard him because he insisted he needed an additional $5,000 or he 'couldn't make it'. The recruiter had to literally work with him on his finances before he felt comfortable enough to take the offer. That's how extended he was.

My wife usually never shares company comp of employees with me but she knew this one would get me pretty hot. And 18 months later I'm still pretty worked up about it.