Has anyone run into this with a car insurer?

[pb4uski]

Has anyone run into this? We've had it happen in our family twice over the last 3 years.

DS owns a car and has his own car insurance. He moved in with us back in the spring when he was unemployed and planning to move to our area anyway to be closer to his niece and nephew. He "home-sat" while we were at our Vermont home for the summer. He found work a couple months ago and has been slow-walking moving out but will be moving out in the next month or so.

He recently got a letter from his car insurer, Progressive, stating that they were going to add someone to his auto policy. The name on the letter is not someone that he, DW or I know... a total stranger.

He calls them and tells them that he doesn't know this person and all is good. However, Progressive then insists that he needs to obtain and provide information on all licensed drivers in his "household" so they can add those people to his auto policy! WTF!

He has his car and car insurance and we have our car and car insurance. In the normal course, we never drive his car and he never drives our car. I could see if he was injured and needed to go to the hospital and could not drive and our car wasn't here that DW or I would use his car to drive him to the hospital. Or vice versa. But other than that, I can't envision any need for us to use his car or vice versa. I haven't driven his car in three years other than to reposition it in the driveway and he has never driven our truck that I can recall.

Progressive told him that if he doesn't provide info on us before his next renewal date in late January that they will not renew his policy. Since he'll hopefully be moved out by then the problem won't be us but he'll probably be renting a room in a house with 2-3 other roomates, each of whom have their own cars and own car insurance so the problem has just transferred and become more difficult.

DS tells me that DD and DSIL had a similar issue a couple years ago when DS was living with them temporarily. DD/DSIL's car insurer insisted that DS be added to their policy even though they never drove the others' cars.

I can understand the insurer wanting to get information on those who might drive the insured vehicle regularly or even periodically to assess their risk but it seems extreme where others don't regularly or even periodically drive the vehicle.

Is this really a thing? I actually don't mind providing them with our names and drivers license info (but not SSNs) but it seems very strange and intrusive in the circumstances.

While it is tempting for him to lie and say that he lives alone to avoid this hassle, that route would have its own perils I think.

DS thinks it is just a money grab by the insurer. I'm skeptical of that but it is a very strange practice IME. Thoughts?

 

[Koolau]

Has anyone run into this? We've had it happen in our family twice over the last 3 years.

DS owns a car and has his own car insurance. He moved in with us back in the spring when he was unemployed and planning to move to our area anyway to be closer to his niece and nephew. He "home-sat" while we were at our Vermont home for the summer. He found work a couple months ago and has been slow-walking moving out but will be moving out in the next month or so.

He recently got a letter from his car insurer, Progressive, stating that they were going to add someone to his auto policy. The name on the letter is not someone that he, DW or I know... a total stranger.

He calls them and tells them that he doesn't know this person and all is good. However, Progressive then insists that he needs to obtain and provide information on all licensed drivers in his "household" so they can add those people to his auto policy! WTF!

He has his car and car insurance and we have our car and car insurance. In the normal course, we never drive his car and he never drives our car. I could see if he was injured and needed to go to the hospital and could not drive and our car wasn't here that DW or I would use his car to drive him to the hospital. Or vice versa. But other than that, I can't envision any need for us to use his car or vice versa. I haven't driven his car in three years other than to reposition it in the driveway and he has never driven our truck that I can recall.

Progressive told him that if he doesn't provide info on us before his next renewal date in late January that they will not renew his policy. Since he'll hopefully be moved out by then the problem won't be us but he'll probably be renting a room in a house with 2-3 other roomates, each of whom have their own cars and own car insurance so the problem has just transferred and become more difficult.

DS tells me that DD and DSIL had a similar issue a couple years ago when DS was living with them temporarily. DD/DSIL's car insurer insisted that DS be added to their policy even though they never drove the others' cars.

I can understand the insurer wanting to get information on those who might drive the insured vehicle regularly or even periodically to assess their risk but it seems extreme where others don't regularly or even periodically drive the vehicle.

Is this really a thing? I actually don't mind providing them with our names and drivers license info (but not SSNs) but it seems very strange and intrusive in the circumstances.

While it is tempting for him to lie and say that he lives alone to avoid this hassle, that route would have its own perils I think.

DS thinks it is just a money grab by the insurer. I'm skeptical of that but it is a very strange practice IME. Thoughts?

Time for both of you to check other car insurance company rates and switch.

 

[Texas Proud]

Yes it is a thing... people lie all the time when a bad driver is living with others and drive the cars...

Is it fair? That is another question...

BTW, we have to have our DD on our cars even though she is away to college and lives there full time... she has her own car (but we still own it).. it costs me a lot as both DW and I now have expensive cars...

One thing that I would say is what address is on the drivers license?

Also, if you have roommates I would not put them on... I would narrow my 'household' to just my bedroom as each are renting their own... my DD roomed with 5 other girls and there is no way I would add 5 people to my car insurance...

 

[tutan]

Time for both of you to check other car insurance company rates and switch.

But also ask your insurance if you need to add DS to your policy and if yes why.

 

[Car-Guy]

No, nothing like that has happened to me, but if it did, I'd drop them (insurance) in a heartbeat.

 

[rk911]

When I was home recuperating from surgery we had family friends living with us temporarily assisting us (my wife can't drive and needs daily help). I spoke with our State Farm agent about putting our friends on our auto policy and was told it was not necessary as our cars are covered no matter who is driving. Both of our friends have their own auto policies.

 

[cathy63]

Yes, it's really a thing when relatives live together. Insurance companies usually require all members of the family who hold drivers licenses to be named on the policy. I remember my sister and brother shared a rental condo when they were both attending the same college many years ago and it was an issue then.

I've never heard of them forcing unrelated roommates onto each others policies, so that's probably not going to be an issue when he moves out.

I've also never heard of them trying to add a complete stranger to the policy. If that happened to me, I'd do some googling and see if I could figure out whether that person was using my address in some way, or if possibly they were the previous owner of your home and Progressive is just confused about that.

 

[pb4uski]

Yes it is a thing... people lie all the time when a bad driver is living with others and drive the cars...

Is it fair? That is another question...

BTW, we have to have our DD on our cars even though she is away to college and lives there full time... she has her own car (but we still own it).. it costs me a lot as both DW and I now have expensive cars...

One thing that I would say is what address is on the drivers license?

Also, if you have roommates I would not put them on... I would narrow my 'household' to just my bedroom as each are renting their own... my DD roomed with 5 other girls and there is no way I would add 5 people to my car insurance...

I agree with you but that isn't the way household is defined by the insurers. From what I'm finding, if one fails to disclose others under the roof then the insurer could potentially deny a claim so your DD would be taking risk of claim denial.

 

[pb4uski]

No, nothing like that has happened to me, but if it did, I'd drop them (insurance) in a heartbeat.

Yes, DS is pissed and will find other insurance, but that might not resolve the problem but just transfer it to a different company.

 

[pb4uski]

Yes, it's really a thing when relatives live together. Insurance companies usually require all members of the family who hold drivers licenses to be named on the policy. I remember my sister and brother shared a rental condo when they were both attending the same college many years ago and it was an issue then.

I've never heard of them forcing unrelated roommates onto each others policies, so that's probably not going to be an issue when he moves out.

I've also never heard of them trying to add a complete stranger to the policy. If that happened to me, I'd do some googling and see if I could figure out whether that person was using my address in some way, or if possibly they were the previous owner of your home and Progressive is just confused about that.

Yes, to our knowledge that person has never lived here. There have been 3 owners of our address and his surname is not the same as any of the owners.

What you say about unrelated roommates is what I would think it should be, but from what I am finding it would apply to unrelated roommates as well.

Insurers assume that anyone licensed and living in your household has regular access to your vehicle and keys, making them a significant risk that must be addressed on your policy.

I think that is a stoopid assumption. If someone was sharing a house with 2-3 strangers why would anyone assume that the housemates would have regular access to the vehicle and keys? It doesn't make sense but seems to be the way it is.

 

[Dtail]

We had this issue about 10 years ago when my Fiance's younger son was living with us. Geico insisted he be on our policy even though he wasn't driving a car at the time.
Switched to a new insurer and didn't mention him being part of the household. He never drove a car, so it appeared to be a safe decision.

 

[Al18]

Unacceptable behavior by your son’s insurance company. I would urge your son to write a letter to your state’s insurance commissioner, and be sure and mention the unknown person who tried to get on his insurance.

 

[Jerry1]

Haven’t had this issue. I called AAA because this became an issue with another insurance company new to our area and I got the same response that rk911 received from State Farm. Any licensed driver can drive my car and I’m insured. This matters to me because my DD does borrow my truck to tow her camper. I didn’t think about it originally because DD was also insured by AAA. However she recently switched so I needed to be sure and called AAA.

The issue in our state was highlighted by what a new insurance company to our state (CURE) was doing to deny claims. They were looking for ways to deny claims. In their opinion, they were looking for fraud. When they discovered that someone lived in the household and not listed on the insurance, they denied the claim and canceled the insurance due to fraud. They also claimed fraud for someone who let a caregiver drive their car to get them to appointments. Bottom line is don’t mess around with this clause. Either comply with it our find another insurance company because the denial of a claim could be far worse than paying a bit more for your coverage.

 

[USGrant1962]

Just to add, I've heard that Progressive is one of the worst insurance companies when it comes to paying claims - hence their low rates. When DW was hit by a car while bicycling last year we dealt with the driver's insurance (Erie) and, because it was a no-fault state, one of the first questions Erie asked was who was our insurance. We said State Farm. Then unprompted she said, "oh good, it is not Progressive, they are the worst".

 

[Koolau]

State Farm DID ask us if ANYONE else was authorized to drive our mainland car. Our DIL keeps the car over the winter and drives it occasionally so I let SF know (and let DIL know so that she could comply with whatever SF wanted from her). I'm guessing she drives the car 20 miles all winter.

 

[Kings over Queens]

What the OP describes is very common, and legal. Insurance carriers are permitted to underwrite exposure and charge accordingly. If this practice is deemed unacceptable to the consumer, then the best course of action is to find a new carrier.

 

[OldShooter]

Time to find an independent agent, and have them shop your coverage. Working directly with Progressive is suicidal for you. You don't have the resources to to protect yourself. An independent agent is of much more interest to the insurance company and the agent is much more likely to get you what you need. In this case what you need is a new insurance company.

 

[pb4uski]

What the OP describes is very common, and legal. Insurance carriers are permitted to underwrite exposure and charge accordingly. If this practice is deemed unacceptable to the consumer, then the best course of action is to find a new carrier.

I don't have a problem at all with the car insurer wanting to know who regularly or even occasionally drives the car as it is indeed relevant to risk and therefore premiums charged. A question of who regularly or occasionally uses the car is ligitimate, but that's not what they asked.

What I find objectionable and unreasonable is the insurer's presumption that anyone living in the household/under the roof has access to the keys and the vehicle and therefore should be listed. In my experience with housemates, this assumption is erroneous.

When I was a young adult there were 5 of us sharing a house. We each had our own car and own car insurance. It would be very rare that any of us would use a housemate's car. Ditto for DS. Over the years he has always had one or as many as 5 housemates and they all had their own cars and own insurance and didn't drive each other's cars.

The current situation is particularly objectionable. They send the insured a letter informing them that they will be adding Joe Smith to their policy as an insured driver, inducing the insured to call the insurer. Then they turn it around and interrogate the insured about who is in their household.

What is senseless is that if the insured has a friend who regularly or occasionally uses the car but doesn't live in the same building (for example a friend who is a neighbor) then the insurer's household inquiries are totally ineffective. To my knowledge, they never asked DS whether there were any other people who regularly or occasionally used the car and would refore be relevnt to their risk assessment.

 

[pb4uski]

Time to find an independent agent, and have them shop your coverage. Working directly with Progressive is suicidal for you. You don't have the resources to to protect yourself. An independent agent is of much more interest to the insurance company and the agent is much more likely to get you what you need. In this case what you need is a new insurance company.

This is exactly what will be happening because DS will soon be moving and likely will have 1-3 housemates who will not have access to his keys or car and he doesn't want the hassle of dealing with this issue with Progressive or any other insurers.

 

[VanWinkle]

Requiring all drivers in the household is a common question on an Auto Insurance application. I think it is unusual for this to happen after the initial application and I would also be looking to change Insurance companies due to the threat of non-renewal for your son.

 

[jollystomper]

What I find objectionable and unreasonable is the insurer's presumption that anyone living in the household/under the roof has access to the keys and the vehicle and therefore should be listed. In my experience with housemates, this assumption is erroneous.

When I was a young adult there were 5 of us sharing a house. We each had our own car and own car insurance. It would be very rare that any of us would use a housemate's car. Ditto for DS. Over the years he has always had one or as many as 5 housemates and they all had their own cars and own insurance and didn't drive each other's cars.

I suspect that the insurer may have handled enough claims relevant to the situation to have decided it is something they want track. I always remember that insurers do not follow logic, they follow profits. So anything they can use to delay or deny a claim I expect them to leverage. Some not as much as others.

 

[Texas Proud]

Do you have any info on why they would consider roommates as in the household?

My DD was renting a room... she had nothing to do with the other girls renting their room... if they did not pay that was not her problem and they could not come after her... that is why I say narrow the household down to what you are paying for.. who lives in your room...

BTW, I just thought about it... she was living with her then BF for a year and neither of the parents put the other on their insurance... DD is considered to be part of MY household and living somewhere else... that might not even make a household...

 

[athena53]

I suspect that the insurer may have handled enough claims relevant to the situation to have decided it is something they want track. I always remember that insurers do not follow logic, they follow profits. So anything they can use to delay or deny a claim I expect them to leverage. Some not as much as others.

Well, then it would be easier for them not to check. You left your kid off the policy because she was away at college 9 months of the year and didn't have a car there and got into an accident with your car over the summer? Too bad. They'd save bundles by denying claims but then the policyholder gets angry at them. (BTW, most insurers offer a discount for kids away at college.) It also means that the cost of accidents gets absorbed by people and entities not at fault- medical insurers in the case of injury claims, for example, or the Uninsured Motorists coverage that the not-at-fault driver carries. Or maybe they don't carry UM so they're stuck with the loss if the at-fault driver is judgment-proof. UM used to be very cheap coverage. Now it's going through the roof.

I see plenty of posts similar to this case on Reddit, especially young drivers whose premiums are steep (due to higher risk)- they stay on parents' policies even though parents are n another state with cheaper premiums, people leave household members off the policy because they think they'll never drive the car (till they do and cause an accident, etc.). This is why insurers have started using Internet data about who lives where to make sure they're being paid for the risks they're taking.

 

[wrigley]

When I was home recuperating from surgery we had family friends living with us temporarily assisting us (my wife can't drive and needs daily help). I spoke with our State Farm agent about putting our friends on our auto policy and was told it was not necessary as our cars are covered no matter who is driving. Both of our friends have their own auto policies.

That's what I was told. You are insuring the car. Anyone that is properly licensed can drive that vehicle and be covered. This is a new one on me.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Has anyone run into this? We've had it happen in our family twice over the last 3 years.

DS owns a car and has his own car insurance. He moved in with us back in the spring when he was unemployed and planning to move to our area anyway to be closer to his niece and nephew. He "home-sat" while we were at our Vermont home for the summer. He found work a couple months ago and has been slow-walking moving out but will be moving out in the next month or so.

He recently got a letter from his car insurer, Progressive, stating that they were going to add someone to his auto policy. The name on the letter is not someone that he, DW or I know... a total stranger.

He calls them and tells them that he doesn't know this person and all is good. However, Progressive then insists that he needs to obtain and provide information on all licensed drivers in his "household" so they can add those people to his auto policy! WTF!

He has his car and car insurance and we have our car and car insurance. In the normal course, we never drive his car and he never drives our car. I could see if he was injured and needed to go to the hospital and could not drive and our car wasn't here that DW or I would use his car to drive him to the hospital. Or vice versa. But other than that, I can't envision any need for us to use his car or vice versa. I haven't driven his car in three years other than to reposition it in the driveway and he has never driven our truck that I can recall.

Progressive told him that if he doesn't provide info on us before his next renewal date in late January that they will not renew his policy. Since he'll hopefully be moved out by then the problem won't be us but he'll probably be renting a room in a house with 2-3 other roomates, each of whom have their own cars and own car insurance so the problem has just transferred and become more difficult.

DS tells me that DD and DSIL had a similar issue a couple years ago when DS was living with them temporarily. DD/DSIL's car insurer insisted that DS be added to their policy even though they never drove the others' cars.

I can understand the insurer wanting to get information on those who might drive the insured vehicle regularly or even periodically to assess their risk but it seems extreme where others don't regularly or even periodically drive the vehicle.

Is this really a thing? I actually don't mind providing them with our names and drivers license info (but not SSNs) but it seems very strange and intrusive in the circumstances.

While it is tempting for him to lie and say that he lives alone to avoid this hassle, that route would have its own perils I think.

DS thinks it is just a money grab by the insurer. I'm skeptical of that but it is a very strange practice IME. Thoughts?

Progressive got to pay for the thousands of TV commercials and advertisement somehow. I haven't heard many good things about that company. They lure you in with a low rate for the first year, and they expect you to be too lazy to shop around again.