Having Money and Mental Health

[marko]

I stumbled upon this the other day. Found it very thought provoking.

It's an excerpt from a guy who started with nothing, worked hard to build a business and eventually sold it for big money.

His overall point was that money changes how you view life's minor challenges. In short: "money doesnt buy happiness but it buys the absence of 90% of the stuff that makes people miserable".

Comments?

What changed when the money hit?

"nothing changed about the world. everything changed about what i noticed. when youre broke you notice everything. the coffee is wrong. the flight is delayed. the taxi took the long route. youre scanning for threats because your life has no margin for error"

"when you have money you stop noticing because nothing small can hurt you anymore. the coffee is wrong? theres another coffee. the flight is delayed? theres another flight. you stop fighting because you stop needing to win every fight to survive"

"being calm isnt a personality trait. its a financial position"

the people who are stressed all the time arent anxious. theyre broke

and the people who seem zen and unbothered arent enlightened. theyre solvent

Get money...the calm comes after"

 

[COcheesehead]

I made the mistake of following the local message board on Facebook. Man, the posts there of people just trying to get to the next day.
Most of us on here haven’t forgotten or maybe never experienced what it was like to not at least have a cushion in life.

 

[Silver]

Money allows me to have choices. I am happier whenever I have choices, so in that way, money does buy my happiness.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Financially my life has been at many different levels throughout my life. After my last divorce 5 years ago I needed to be fairly frugal as it hurt splitting everything.

Then the Social Security fairness act really changed everything for me. I’m actually saving money every month and I upgraded my lifestyle a little bit. I’m also still consulting part-time which I really love and I’m saving that money too because I figure you never know what the future holds.

 

[Lewis Clark]

The message in that article rings true with me. A new philosophy I have come to adopt is "When you have enough funds available, a problem simply becomes an expense."

 

[Koolau]

It's been a long time since I had "nothing" but, for some reason, I always felt that I had opportunity. Having enough is a good state to find oneself but being without was never anything close to debilitating for me.

 

[ut2sua]

"money doesnt buy happiness but it buys the absence of 90% of the stuff that makes people miserable".

Agreed. I told my sons (who have not experienced significant financial issues in their lives to date): there are many things $ can't get for you in life, but if you don't have the first $40k or so per year, life is hell.

 

[MichaelB]

Yes, money buys convenience, and that minimizes the petty stressors. For some reason, however, for many it also brings new types of stress. On balance, I’d rather have more money than not, but I think I’m where I need to be, and think more money now wouldn’t bring a less stressful life.

It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got

All your money won’t another minute buy.

 

[jollystomper]

I would agree.. but in my view, the "calm" really comes when one is content with "having enough" or "more than enough". There are plenty of folks with money who will still feel anxious for various reasons - they compare themselves to others and that makes them unhappy, they are scared by various "doom and gloom" predictions that are being made, etc.

Get money... but the calm comes after understanding what you really need and want, and being content that what you have more than addresses that.

 

[deserat]

I think people have different baselines of anxiety regardless of their financial state. However, one's availability of responses to issues that might exacerbate or cause the anxiety to manifest in certain behaviors can possibly be minimized by one's financial position. Look at the one more year and some posts regarding fear of not having enough or feeling unable to spend. So I agree one can throw money at an annoyance or problem if one has it, but it doesn't necessarily mean the underlying baseline anxious state changes.

 

[Koolau]

Yes, money buys convenience, and that minimizes the petty stressors. For some reason, however, for many it also brings new types of stress. On balance, I’d rather have more money than not, but I think I’m where I need to be, and think more money now wouldn’t bring a less stressful life.

It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got

All your money won’t another minute buy.

Two great songs with great messages.

I would agree.. but in my view, the "calm" really comes when one is content with "having enough" or "more than enough". There are plenty of folks with money who will still feel anxious for various reasons - they compare themselves to others and that makes them unhappy, they are scared by various "doom and gloom" predictions that are being made, etc.

Get money... but the calm comes after understanding what you really need and want, and being content that what you have more than addresses that.

Yes. Enough is ENOUGH!

It's kinda fun to see the NW numbers kick up a notch, but knowing that I now have MORE than enough is all that maters.

 

[Koolau]

I think people have different baselines of anxiety regardless of their financial state. However, one's availability of responses to issues that might exacerbate or cause the anxiety to manifest in certain behaviors can possibly be minimized by one's financial position. Look at the one more year and some posts regarding fear of not having enough or feeling unable to spend. So I agree one can throw money at an annoyance or problem if one has it, but it doesn't necessarily mean the underlying baseline anxious state changes.

I'm sure you are right, but at least having the money to throw at a problem is a lot better than not having it.

 

[Diogenes]

I think people have different baselines of anxiety regardless of their financial state. However, one's availability of responses to issues that might exacerbate or cause the anxiety to manifest in certain behaviors can possibly be minimized by one's financial position. Look at the one more year and some posts regarding fear of not having enough or feeling unable to spend. So I agree one can throw money at an annoyance or problem if one has it, but it doesn't necessarily mean the underlying baseline anxious state changes.

Agreed. Money amplifies our natural proclivities. It doesn't reform our character. A neurotic and insecure poor person, who acquires money, becomes a neurotic and insecure wealthy person.

If you have $1M in the stock market, and it drops 1%, you've just lost $10K. If you have $10M in the market, you've lost $100K. How long would it take to earn $100K after taxes from one's W2? Quite a while. That's one day's losses! Who can abide that? OK, so mindful of that, one sells, going into cash. The next day, the market rises by 1%. On a $10M portfolio, that's $100K rise that one has missed, having sat in cash. Who can abide that?

The solution is to disengage oneself from one's money. That $10M or whatever it is? It's not real. It's numbers on a computer screen at Fidelity or whatever. Those numbers won't buy a plane ticket or a cup of coffee, to use the OP's examples. But they most definitely do increase the elation on a day when the market rises, and the depression on a day when the market falls.

My conclusion: either money hasn't change my actual material life at all. Or it's only amplified the frustrations of my youth. It's either irrelevant, or downright baleful.

 

[38Chevy454]

Money doesn't necessarily buy happiness, but lack of money almost always brings unhappiness.

I am a big believer in the concept of enough. Enough to have the standard of living you want, enough to pay all of your expenses, enough to cover emergency expenses, enough to buy luxury or discretionary items, enough to give some money away to charity, and other examples. Once you have enough, having more than enough doesn't have as much effect. Having less than enough is stressful or unhappiness.

 

[Sanstar]

Agree with Silver re: choices. My DM was totally financially dependent on her DH until her four kids were older with first two out of house. I was determined to never be financially dependent on anyone. Left for the Army as soon as I turned 18 with one small suitcase and $40 from mom.

Had three kids, long rewarding career and now a low and increasing seven figure IRA in spite of generous regular gifting to family members.

What I value most is having choices. I choose to stay with DH, of 50+ years. I choose organic, nutritious food for DGS and family. I choose to adopt a rescue puppy and buy a $3k King Charles spaniel, ect…

Financial security and independence allows me to truly live the life I choose. Hope this doesn’t change.

 

[marko]

The point that this guy was making was, as noted, "life's minor challenges".

Annoyances and minor disappointments that a broke person might feel more acutely due to their broke-ness, while a wealthy person would easily buy his way out of.

Oh crap! My bag of groceries broke all over the parking lot...guess its just Ramen for the rest of the week. Versus heading back into the store and simply re-purchasing again without a second thought.

Or "This taxi's route is going to cost me an extra $7 dollars! "

 

[TheWizard]

I pretty much agree with marko's thesis.
I think this happens at times with unexpected car expenses: a new DieHard battery; two or even four new tires to be able to pass inspection or after a blowout...

 

[Walt34]

Money gives you options, more options than someone who is broke has. There was a time when an alternator going bad on my car was a big deal. Now it's pocket change and a minor inconvenience.

This gives one a far more relaxed view of such things.

 

[Jerry1]

I realized this in my early 30’s. When a car breaks down and it’s no longer a crisis you’ve moved up a notch. Sure, when my car got stolen, I was upset, but in the end, it was an insurance issue. I rented a car and got on with my life. In my early 20’s, it would have been much different and way more stressful. As said above, a problem becomes an expense.

At this point in my life it’s much more dramatic. I had a significant medical situation a few years back. I had money and good insurance so while it did cost me some money, I never had to worry about how I would pay to keep myself alive. I hits me from time to time how rough it must be for so many who do not have the finances to fund a health crisis. Simply put, it’s a blessing and I’m thankful, which is a lot less stressful than the alternative.

 

[badatmath]

I stumbled upon this the other day. Found it very thought provoking.

It's an excerpt from a guy who started with nothing, worked hard to build a business and eventually sold it for big money.

His overall point was that money changes how you view life's minor challenges. In short: "money doesnt buy happiness but it buys the absence of 90% of the stuff that makes people miserable".

Comments?

What changed when the money hit?

"nothing changed about the world. everything changed about what i noticed. when youre broke you notice everything. the coffee is wrong. the flight is delayed. the taxi took the long route. youre scanning for threats because your life has no margin for error"

"when you have money you stop noticing because nothing small can hurt you anymore. the coffee is wrong? theres another coffee. the flight is delayed? theres another flight. you stop fighting because you stop needing to win every fight to survive"

"being calm isnt a personality trait. its a financial position"

the people who are stressed all the time arent anxious. theyre broke

and the people who seem zen and unbothered arent enlightened. theyre solvent

Get money...the calm comes after"

Well since I am the poorest and most stressed I've ever been I'd agree!

 

[Crewer]

I was just talking with a friend this morning and this hit me. He's retired but doesn't have any extra cash and when some glitch hits his blood pressure spikes and he goes crazy. Can't be good for him. Needless to say I'm helping him out here and there. It's much easier to be calm when glitches happen and you can find a way around even if it costs something.

 

[FD1000]

Agreed. Money amplifies our natural proclivities. It doesn't reform our character. A neurotic and insecure poor person, who acquires money, becomes a neurotic and insecure wealthy person.

If you have $1M in the stock market, and it drops 1%, you've just lost $10K. If you have $10M in the market, you've lost $100K. How long would it take to earn $100K after taxes from one's W2? Quite a while. That's one day's losses! Who can abide that? OK, so mindful of that, one sells, going into cash. The next day, the market rises by 1%. On a $10M portfolio, that's $100K rise that one has missed, having sat in cash. Who can abide that?

The solution is to disengage oneself from one's money. That $10M or whatever it is? It's not real. It's numbers on a computer screen at Fidelity or whatever. Those numbers won't buy a plane ticket or a cup of coffee, to use the OP's examples. But they most definitely do increase the elation on a day when the market rises, and the depression on a day when the market falls.

My conclusion: either money hasn't change my actual material life at all. Or it's only amplified the frustrations of my youth. It's either irrelevant, or downright baleful.

There is a big difference between 1M to 10M.
If you have 10M, you can take 5M and buy 5 annuities, 1M each, from 5 different insurance companies until death. That would solve a lot of anxiety for many people.

 

[Diogenes]

The point that this guy was making was, as noted, "life's minor challenges".

Annoyances and minor disappointments that a broke person might feel more acutely due to their broke-ness, while a wealthy person would easily buy his way out of.

Oh crap! My bag of groceries broke all over the parking lot...guess its just Ramen for the rest of the week. Versus heading back into the store and simply re-purchasing again without a second thought.

Or "This taxi's route is going to cost me an extra $7 dollars! "

A neurotic and compulsively-minded person will manufacture crises, even if mere finances don't support such.
Joe might be worth $50M, but when his bag of groceries breaks all over the parking lot, he will sentence himself to 3 days of enforced starvation, to do penance for the error of not properly minding the grocery bag. Not only won't he buy replacement groceries, but he might impose on himself an extra duty and extra burden, to atone as it were, for his getting out of synch with the universe. Fred, on seeing the taxi-meter running excessively, might tell the driver to pull-over, and then walk for the remainder of the journey, sweaty and with sores on his feet. Fred might be worth $100M.

We really have to stop regarding money as automatically being a tool to accomplish other things. Maybe instead human-life is instead a tool, for accomplishing more money? This concept is assuredly repulsive to some people, and maybe they're right. I just want to point out, that for some of us, like Joe and Fred, there is a petulantly unremitting insistence to optimize-optimize-optimize, so that even the most nugatory trifle might set us off, even if it's utterly inconsequential financially.

 

[marko]

A neurotic and compulsively-minded person will manufacture crises, even if mere finances don't support such.
Joe might be worth $50M, but when his bag of groceries breaks all over the parking lot, he will sentence himself to 3 days of enforced starvation, to do penance for the error of not properly minding the grocery bag. Not only won't he buy replacement groceries, but he might impose on himself an extra duty and extra burden, to atone as it were, for his getting out of synch with the universe. Fred, on seeing the taxi-meter running excessively, might tell the driver to pull-over, and then walk for the remainder of the journey, sweaty and will sores on his feet. Fred might be worth $100M.

We really have to stop regarding money as automatically being a tool to accomplish other things. Maybe instead human-life is instead a tool, for accomplishing more money? This concept is assuredly repulsive to some people, and maybe they're right. I just want to point out, that for some of us, like Joe and Fred, there is a petulantly unremitting insistence to optimize-optimize-optimize, so that even the most nugatory trifle might set us off, even if it's utterly inconsequential financially.

I think Joe and Fred have problems that no amount of money will solve.

 

[freedomatlast]

Since FI, I don't sweat the small stuff. If my favorite brand of a food item increased $0.75 or $1.00 since last week, who cares? I still buy it and go on with life. They decreased the package size but kept the price the same? Again, I don't care because I'm going to buy it because I want it and it won't make one bit of difference in my standard of living. I keep my house at a temperature that is comfortable, not at a temperature that is a compromise to save a few pennies. Yet how many threads do you see on here in a weeks time about people sweating the small stuff in life when they don't have to? Maybe creatures of habit?