Having more time (or not)

Unless your employer erects a 12' tall bronze statue of you in front of the corporate office door for all to see, your "legacy" will be a vanishing memory of all who's left after you are gone. And, 100 years from now, only 0.00001 percent (or less) of who's left on this planet will even have any recollection of your past existence. Heck, they (all who have looked) can't even find Cleopatra's grave site after 1,000+ plus years of looking.
 
Unless your employer erects a 12' tall bronze statue of you in front of the corporate office door for all to see, your "legacy" will be a vanishing memory of all who's left after you are gone. And, 100 years from now, only 0.00001 percent (or less) of who's left on this planet will even have any recollection of your past existence. Heck, they (all who have looked) can't even find Cleopatra's grave site after 1,000+ plus years of looking.
True. They can't find Alexander the Great's either!
 
Wouldn't we say, with sound basis, that the first version of Bobby failed to rise to his potential? He mishandled his manifest gifts, and the world is the poorer for it, is it not? Well then, at what point along the chain of alternative Bobbies, do we decide that OK, our hero has done enough, and is honorably ready to move on?
Absolutely not! Bobby made a decision about how he wanted to live his life based on the options presented. We have no idea the personality of the man, just his talent. And talent is just that. Maybe it's physical, as in a sport, maybe it's intellectual. But being talented at something doesn't mean it's your life's ambition. Bobby doing what he wants with his life isn't for you or I to judge him over. He's happier that way and we have enough unhappy people in the world already. Many of which followed their talent instead of what they really wanted to do with their life. I think a lot of mentally messed up people become that way from the judgement of others for the choices they make in their own lives. The world is richer for a happy, content Bobby, than someone else's hero Bobby.
 
You exchange your time for money by working. But if you have enough money, it doesn't make sense to get more money. Do what you feel wanting to do, even it is nothing. But I am very busy for most days, gardening (fruit trees, flowers, vegetables), fishing, reading on phone, gaming on phone, playing cards with friends, hiking, traveling, and planning for travel (takes a lot of time). We make several overseas trips to more than 10 different countries a year, all planned and executed by myself.
 
Broadly you're of course correct. Few of us amount to anything, and most aspirants will be woeful failures. But it takes tremendous self-awareness to let go of this "conceit", especially for those of us who did actually publish a thing or two, influence such-and-such, and got some smattering of publicity. Utter failure would have almost been easier to bear, than partial failure.

Let me assay with an alternative vignette. Bobbly is a bright teenager, much talented in math. His parents want for him to go into some STEM field, maybe do research, maybe start his own company and make lots of money. But instead he bums around, barely makes it through school, skips college and goes into some quotidian trade or whatnot, earning a living, but not much beyond that. What do we say about that? Was Bobby's choice a good one? Do we have no standing to judge, because it's only his life and his alone?

Alright. Let's shift the goal posts. Alternative-Bobby gets fantastic grades in high school, and goes to Harvard on a scholarship to study math. Becoming a superstar, the professors in his department are falling all over themselves, to lure Bobby to become their graduate student. He spurns them all, instead leaving to become an insurance salesman. Now what do we say? Yeah or nay?

Continuing, alternative #2 Bobby gets a PhD in math, and goes on to get an assistant professorship at some university. Rising through the ranks, he proves an important theorem... enough to get the Fields Metal some years later. But then, seemingly at the height of his career, he resigns his professorship, at age 40, to go become a gentleman farmer in New Zealand. Now what do we say?

Alternative #3: this Bobby remains a practicing mathematician into his late 50s or early 60s. Feeling no longer sharp, he leaves while still enjoying maximal dignity, prestige and fame, quietly retires.

And, alternative #4: in this version, Bobby never retires. He doesn't even go Emeritus. In his 70s, he shuffles from his office to the coffee pot, barely coherent in his lectures, abandoned by students, unable to garner funding, unproductive and widely lampooned behind his back. He finally dies of a heart attack in his office.


Few of us would prefer Alternative #4 - though in truth, I've seen it more often than not. #3 sounds more reasonable, or perhaps, depending on lifestyle choices, #2. But my point here isn't to argue for or against early retirement... after all, this Forum has a certain thematic leaning. Instead I call attention to the original Bobby, the first alternative, and the second. Wouldn't we say, with sound basis, that the first version of Bobby failed to rise to his potential? He mishandled his manifest gifts, and the world is the poorer for it, is it not? Well then, at what point along the chain of alternative Bobbies, do we decide that OK, our hero has done enough, and is honorably ready to move on?
"He spurns them all, instead leaving to become an insurance salesman."--I can say from personal experience that this is the wrong choice. It has to be the worst job of all time!
 
Absolutely not! Bobby made a decision about how he wanted to live his life based on the options presented. We have no idea the personality of the man, just his talent. And talent is just that. Maybe it's physical, as in a sport, maybe it's intellectual. But being talented at something doesn't mean it's your life's ambition. Bobby doing what he wants with his life isn't for you or I to judge him over. He's happier that way and we have enough unhappy people in the world already. Many of which followed their talent instead of what they really wanted to do with their life. I think a lot of mentally messed up people become that way from the judgement of others for the choices they make in their own lives. The world is richer for a happy, content Bobby, than someone else's hero Bobby.
"...A gentleman is someone who knows how to play the accordion but doesn't..."
 
"...A gentleman is someone who knows how to play the accordion but doesn't..."
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First, no-one ever lay on their death bed saying "I wish I'd spent more time at the office." Second was the realization that the only thing we can ever truly own in this world is whatever time we're given on this planet.
Are we sure of this? An acquaintance from my former workplace lamented, during our former bridge game (a daily occurrence in the former workplace; now, a rarity): "I screwed up. I talked too much, annoying the wrong people. Were it not for that, I could have made Division Chief. Maybe even Director. Then I'd still be there. I'd have been an SES [senior executive service]. Instead there was nothing left for me there. So, I quit. Yeah, I'm comfortable. But I miss the buzz... and even more, I miss the sense of authority. People used to respect me. Now only my dog respects me. Oh BTW, I have a lousy hand, so... pass".
 
Are we sure of this? An acquaintance from my former workplace lamented, during our former bridge game (a daily occurrence in the former workplace; now, a rarity): "I screwed up. I talked too much, annoying the wrong people. Were it not for that, I could have made Division Chief. Maybe even Director. Then I'd still be there. I'd have been an SES [senior executive service]. Instead there was nothing left for me there. So, I quit. Yeah, I'm comfortable. But I miss the buzz... and even more, I miss the sense of authority. People used to respect me. Now only my dog respects me. Oh BTW, I have a lousy hand, so... pass".

But this acquaintance wasn't on his death bed when he lamented to you. He was playing bridge with you. Unless he was playing bridge with you on his death bed when he made this lament, I think CapTom's point stands :).

I'll wager a buck that if/when your acquaintance is on his death bed and ready to pass, regret of not making Division Chief will be the last thing on his mind.
 
You get to choose your life and how you see things. I choose to be happy with whatever choices I have made and paths that I have taken. When I was working, work was my identity and I was damn successful and good at what I was doing, over 2 different careers. When we sold our business, the broker insisted that I wasn't ready to be retired because I had so much drive, and to let him know my next (work) chapter. My staff refused to believe that I was going to not work anymore. I was 53.

My close school friends and my former MBA professor whom I am very close to, were highly successful in their careers - one ran a successful business and worth hundreds of millions in net worth, one is head of people development with the Prime Minister Office, and one was second to the equivalent of the Federal Reserve Chairman back in my home country. I thought I would be "nothing" when I retired and when I sat down with my friends. Guess what, 2 days after the sale of our business, I was done! I spend my days golfing and trying to be a better golfer. I am happy. Status from work careers is nothing. We all die in the end and how we spend our days before we die is more important than any titles that we had ever held.
 
Are we sure of this? An acquaintance from my former workplace lamented, during our former bridge game (a daily occurrence in the former workplace; now, a rarity): "I screwed up. I talked too much, annoying the wrong people. Were it not for that, I could have made Division Chief. Maybe even Director. Then I'd still be there. I'd have been an SES [senior executive service]. Instead there was nothing left for me there. So, I quit. Yeah, I'm comfortable. But I miss the buzz... and even more, I miss the sense of authority. People used to respect me. Now only my dog respects me. Oh BTW, I have a lousy hand, so... pass".
A common lament from those who step back from high-pressure, high-reward situations. I've felt it periodically since I called it quits for more important things nearly 10 years ago. Most acute for me around the time the second one left home. No so much a year later.

At least your friend was getting respect from his dog. Good that he wasn't depending upon the teens he was raising for that😂
 
Are we sure of this? An acquaintance from my former workplace lamented, during our former bridge game (a daily occurrence in the former workplace; now, a rarity): "I screwed up. I talked too much, annoying the wrong people. Were it not for that, I could have made Division Chief. Maybe even Director. Then I'd still be there. I'd have been an SES [senior executive service]. Instead there was nothing left for me there. So, I quit. Yeah, I'm comfortable. But I miss the buzz... and even more, I miss the sense of authority. People used to respect me. Now only my dog respects me. Oh BTW, I have a lousy hand, so... pass".
A few observations on your friend's comments:

- His lament is different from what you pointed out in alternative 1 above. It is not the case of others seeing his potential. It is the case of him not being able to achieve what he wanted.
- His lament is less about "I could have achieved these positions" and more "I want to have authority and that will make other people respect me, and those positions would have given me that". The achievement is not the real goal, to be seen as someone with authority - and, in his view, thus having people respect him - is.
- He missed that he did not do the things that, regardless of his position, would have given him respect from others - his behavior did not respect other people.

One other thing about alternative #1: It can be challenging, if not dangerous, to live your life completely based on other peoples specific expectations. For example, most parents want their children to do well, and hope that they get some type of "significant" (in the parents eyes) job. But, unless that becomes the kid's desire as well, things can become problematic. DW and I observed more and a few friends and acquaintances from college who enter professions that their parents wanted them to be in that they never desired, and they were never content, even if , from outside observations, they were doing well.
 
Are we sure of this? An acquaintance from my former workplace lamented, during our former bridge game (a daily occurrence in the former workplace; now, a rarity): "I screwed up. I talked too much, annoying the wrong people. Were it not for that, I could have made Division Chief. Maybe even Director. Then I'd still be there. I'd have been an SES [senior executive service]. Instead there was nothing left for me there. So, I quit. Yeah, I'm comfortable. But I miss the buzz... and even more, I miss the sense of authority. People used to respect me. Now only my dog respects me. Oh BTW, I have a lousy hand, so... pass".

It doesn't have to be what you say or do that affects you.

One executive VP (just below the C-suite) I knew at a Fortune 500 bank got forced out due to his wife's illness.

Had she not gotten sick more than one person told me he would have instead become the CEO.
 
That's the common trope. But is it universally true? I started at my former place of employment in the early 1990s. There was talk of the old stalwarts, who had retired in the 1970s... so, 15 or 20 years before I even got there. Well into the 2010s (my most recent data point), said personages were still mentioned, sometimes fondly, sometimes with vitriol and exasperation. This is in reference to folks who did some of their most impactful work, in the decade or two, after WW2.

I doubt that Marc Tarpenning's or Martin Eberhard's names have been forgotten at Tesla. Sure, these guys made oodles of money, and FIREd (in both senses of the word) successfully. But... what if they'd remained at Tesla? How would the world have been different today?
Always gonna be exceptions, but for the great masses of us, we're not only replaceable and expendable but forgettable. I never worried about it, but I knew folks that were bothered by those things and actually thought they might be remembered - they weren't.
 
But why does it matter whether someone remembers us at work after we retire? Why should we care? I know I don't.

I am not interested in leaving a legacy, ascribing some higher meaning to my life, and caring whether I am remembered after I leave work or kick the bucket. None of that matters to me at this point in my life. I just want to enjoy my remaining years, whether it's exercising, traveling, spending time with family, volunteering, etc., whatever brings me pleasure. I could be wrong, but I suspect that most of the retired folks on this board feel the same way.

I think the biggest conceit any one of us can have is thinking that we as individuals are somehow important, and that somehow our lives have special meaning or higher purpose. To our family yes. To the rest of the world, we matter not one iota. I can kick the bucket and croak tomorrow and the world will carry on without missing a single beat. I have enough self-awareness to recognize it and I am perfectly ok with it. The world didn't take notice when I came into this world, and the world won't care when I depart. That's the way it is for the vast majority of us, whether we like it or not.

---There are of course exceptions, but let's face it, 99.999999% of us aren't in that group.

Well, enough of this philosophizing. Time for something far more important---a nice Japanese dinner!
I basically agree with you on this. Having said that, some people's very lives are wrapped up in "what they do" or "what they are." Being forgotten (to them) is as if they were never really there at all. I never felt that way because, though I often loved my w*rk, I never got my "meaning of life" or other "strokes" from my w*rk. Those things, I got from family and friends.

Kinda sad, really when someone has their "meaning" wrapped up in their w*rk - because they'll likely be forgotten very quickly.

My dad was always proud that to the day he died, his name was on the family business. Heh, heh, my name is still on the building though I only find it significant because of my dad. Other than that, I could care less. I've been out of the business a LONG time - and glad of it.
 
Sorry bub. Many on this forum, myself included have also "actually published a thing or two, influenced such-and-such, and got some smattering of publicity" yet have possessed enough capacity and maturity to move on into an early and highly enjoyable retirement angst-free.

Get over yourself. There's a lot of smart, professionally successful people here. That's how we got to retire early; you would do well to consider their advice.
The exception and not the rule.

I appreciate those who have left their mark and worry not in the least that I'm not one of them. YMMV
 
For what it's worth, in my experience working in customer service and life in general, the only people that get remembered are the jerks, not the good people. Just a fact of life.
 
- His lament is less about "I could have achieved these positions" and more "I want to have authority and that will make other people respect me, and those positions would have given me that". The achievement is not the real goal, to be seen as someone with authority - and, in his view, thus having people respect him - is.
I got that sense from the story, too. I'm trying not to be judgmental here, but I do question whether someone with that goal is ever truly happy.

As for being remembered, the conversation gets a bit morbid here. Will being remembered matter to me? Technically, no. I won't be around to care. No different from the time before I was born.

Still, at this moment, I care about things which happened before. And I care about what happens after I'm gone. I hope humanity learns to reign in our baser instincts and become something meaningful in the universe. But even that must end eventually.

I don't want a grave or grave stone. I think it's arrogant to expect that I should be able to command a 6-foot long plot of land for all eternity. It's unrealistic, too. Even that will be forgotten some day. I also think it's wrong that a land owner can sell property with a covenant which binds all future land owners to their whims. What if I write into the contract that it can never be sold to a person belonging to a different race? What if I demand that it can never be used for a purpose which, in the future, the community will have a critical need for? Again, it's just arrogance to believe our influence can last forever.
 
Always gonna be exceptions, but for the great masses of us, we're not only replaceable and expendable but forgettable. I never worried about it, but I knew folks that were bothered by those things and actually thought they might be remembered - they weren't.
An old coworker said, put your hand in a bucket of water and then pull it out. The hole left is how much you'll be missed.

Along the lines of people that define their life by work, or worse like the power of work position, to me is quite sad. These people have a hard time in retirement because they really don't have a happiness outside of their work.
 
I am this year, one year older, than last year... a fact that I embrace... not as some Stoic acceptance, but with genuine joy! One year older, is one year better. One day older - that being today, relative to yesterday - is incrementally one day better, too.
WADR, I thoroughly disagree with this sentiment. Certainly, as a young child, I did think that becoming one day (or one year) older was somehow "better". I remember wishing very often that I was an adult who could do exactly what I wanted, when I wanted. But now, having been an adult for almost four full decades, I can say with no equivocation that growing one day—or week, or year, or decade—older is not better at all. It's worse. The passage of time brings with it steadily worse health; the loss of various beloved family members, friends, and pets; and the growing realization that my life is approaching an end point that most likely will not be arrived at happily, easily, or painlessly. Having lost both parents now to terrible diseases (cancer and Alzheimer's) tore away any delusions of fairy tale endings for me.

With respect to the main topic being discussed in this thread, however, I am firmly in agreement with those who realize that almost nothing we do professionally in our lives matters (or will matter) even one microscopic iota to anyone 100 years from now, or perhaps even much sooner. In fact, it's likely that by the year 2100, no one will even remember I ever existed at all! Thus, what we "should" do with the incredibly brief gift of our existence is simply to live and enjoy our time as we see fit, trying to do the least harm and to help ease the suffering of others as we can.

By the way, kudos to OP for starting this thread! I am thoroughly enjoying the philosophical discussions and OP's well-written, thought provoking comments.
 
Damn, we never had time at work to play bridge! I must have been in the wrong line of work! :oops:

I have lots of time now, though, and I play golf instead.
 
Let go. In the end, nothing matters.

Most humans have some kind of talent (realized or unrealized) when provided with enough environmental/social support. Some have the self-awareness (perception) of their talent and some of those worry their talent will atrophy if they give up and retire too soon. Its one of those life decisions where we overthink, especially because we think we have so much more potential, to give to society.

But life, in itself, is not really understood by anyone on this earth. Contributions of most folks on this earth, whether Albert Einstein, Alexander the great and such, can be and will be rendered moot by universe in time-equivalent of human travel of few light years.

Its ok to excel in life and achieve extra ordinary things.
Its ok to just do ordinary things and be content.
Its also ok to not do anything at all and be content. (although this one is less of an option because of mechanics of physicality of human body/life)

In the end, nothing will matter. Its all inside our brains, where neurons connect certain way to make us feel certain way, for the duration of limited life, bound by physical body, made of dust and dirt that earth will eventually reclaim.
 
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Retirement gave me the opportunity to teach a university class for 8 years which was something I had never done before and it was so fun. Now I work about 200 hours a year testing injured workers which was my main career and I still find it fun and rewarding. Everyone needs to find what works for them personally.
 
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