Home electric power bank system

[JoeWras]

My neighbor just got a small Telsa Powerwall, hung outside. It is surprisingly inconspicuous. I need to ask him how it is going.

He uses it with solar. I am NOT sure you can get it without solar. I believe it can work, and has, but last I read Tesla won't take orders unless it is connected to solar.

 

[NW-Bound]

Tesla Powerwall is very well engineered. It just costs a lot.

 

[mountainsoft]

Looking for a battery home backup system (not gas or solar) that can deliver some power during short periods of outages. TV, fan, frig, lamps and other small appliances are only appliances that we might use, so it should be fairly portable and not installed in-line with the home wiring. Have seen some units ranging from 1k to 3k price range that look promising

I've mentioned this before, but you have to balance the backup power cost with the item you are backing up. For instance, you might spend $1000 or more for a battery big enough to power your fridge for a day. That same $1000 will buy a lot of food. So even if everything in your fridge goes bad, it would be cheaper to go buy new food a few times than to buy a backup power system. Most modern refrigerators will stay cold for many hours anyway if you're not opening and closing the doors often.

Of course, if you have frequent power outages that last more than a few hours, then it might make sense. Remember anything with a motor is going to take at least twice the power draw to start up. So if your fridge draws 300 watts running, it may take 600-1200 watts of "surge" power to start up the compressor. Your backup battery bank would need to be able to handle that load.

Another option is to buy a 12 volt fridge that can run much longer off of a battery. Most of our power outages occur during the winter, and we have been known to put our food outside in a cooler during an outage where it's cold anyway.

We are on a private well, so when our power goes out we lose our water supply too. I have thought about setting up a battery backup for the pump or getting a generator, but again that's a huge cost for a rare event. We found it cheaper to just buy several gallon jugs of bottled water ($5-10 depending on how many you want) and store them as needed. We can use them for drinking, flushing toilets, or washing up. If I was really serious about it, I could get a large water tank to store huge quantities of water.

We have a wood stove that we can use for heat and cooking during a power outage, but another option is an inexpensive butane stove. I bought one for camping, but we have used it during power outages, or even cooking something out on the back patio. Here's one example:

https://www.amazon.com/GS-3000-Portable-Stove-Carrying-Approved/dp/B08429MHH4

I do have a Cyberpower UPS battery backup for my computer. I can run about 60-90 minutes on the battery backup, but generally shut down much sooner to save the power for my WiFi router. This lets us use tablets or phones for many hours to surf the web or whatever. We tend to have a lot more short power outages than big ones that last for hours. The UPS works great for that.

I also have a small 300 watt battery bank that can power our LED floor lamp for a day or two. Combine that with a battery powered radio and a few small battery banks to recharge phones and whatnot, and we get by just fine when the power goes out. Put some music on my battery powered bluetooth speaker, light a few candles, and a power outage becomes a romantic evening.

I try to keep my laptop charged up with several video files saved on it. If we really can't do without modern technology, it's easy to set that up to watch a movie or something.

 

[Fermion]

I agree, one pays a lot for the pretty plastic cover on the so called "solar generators".

Goal Zero is a lot easier to sue than Dang Yang Good batteries off of Ali baba though, if your house burns down due to a manufacturing defect.

Also, NW skips over things like connectors, wiring, MPPT charger, 115V charger, portability, etc. which add a lot of value to the YETI. The $2700 3000 watt YETI at costco with the foldable 200 watt panel is a good value imo.

But if putting the Dang Yang Good stuff in a rubbermaid bin with some duct tape to keep the batteries from swelling, all to save a couple hundred bucks floats your boat, more power to ya!

 

[DayDreaming]

...Most of our power outages occur during the winter, and we have been known to put our food outside in a cooler during an outage where it's cold anyway...

In winter power outages, I sometimes empty out a vegetable crisper and pack it with snow - that keeps the fridge at least as cold as it would be if I had power. The only problem is that I don't always have snow on the ground when power goes out.

 

[NW-Bound]

Goal Zero is a lot easier to sue than Dang Yang Good batteries off of Ali baba though, if your house burns down due to a manufacturing defect.

Also, NW skips over things like connectors, wiring, MPPT charger, 115V charger, portability, etc. which add a lot of value to the YETI. The $2700 3000 watt YETI at costco with the foldable 200 watt panel is a good value imo.

But if putting the Dang Yang Good stuff in a rubbermaid bin with some duct tape to keep the batteries from swelling, all to save a couple hundred bucks floats your boat, more power to ya!

Dang Yang Good batteries are OK, but only if you use the right duct tape to keep them together.


Seriously though, I was talking about brand names like Renogy and Growatt, although I do not have personal experience with them. They are at least as reputable as Yeti or better.

By the way, for $700, you commonly get an all-in-one unit, which incorporates an inverter, AC charger, and an MPPT solar controller. This along with a self-contained battery with its built-in BMS makes it a 2-unit system, instead of a single unit system. You need 2 big cables to wire these 2 units together, and you can also buy these and do not have to cut cables and crimp connectors.

I don't recommend laymen to buy individual cells to mess with.

And I woud not keep these battery units inside the home, nor the garage.

 

[Fermion]

Well, here is the YETI 3000x:

https://www.costco.com/goal-zero-ye...mwOa9A4/ynAQuWWtC5EwDyiBNfX+jqWktpcotmklthw==


It goes on sale every fall for $2699.

You get:

3032 watt-hr battery
2000 watt continuous, 3500 watt surge pure sine inverter
1200 watt MPPT solar charge controller
230 watt AC wall charger (this is $120 at Digikey by itself!)

It comes with a ton of handy ports:
USB-A port (output): 5V, up to 2.4A (12W max), regulated
USB-C port (output): 5 - 12V, up to 3.0A (18W max), regulated
USB-C PD port (input / output): 5 - 20V, up to 3.0A (60W max), regulated
6mm port (output, 6mm): 12V, up to 10A (120W max), regulated
12V car port (output): 12V, up to 13A (160W max), regulated
12V High Power Port (output): 12V, up to 30A (360W max), regulated

Then you get the solar panel setup:

Weight: 22 lbs (10.0 kg)
Dimensions (folded): 28.2 x 22.3 x 2.0 in (71.6 x 56.6 x 5.0 cm)
Dimensions (unfolded, without leg stand): 28.2 x 100.7 x 1.0 in (71.6 x 255.8 x 2.5 cm)
Warranty: 12 months
Rated Power: 200W
Open Circuit Voltage (Voc): 23.0V
Maximum Power Point Voltage (Vmpp): 19.1V
Cell Type: Monocrystalline



Its a pretty sweet deal for car camping or light duty home backup...with like ZERO effort except a credit card.

 

[travelover]

.........But if putting the Dang Yang Good stuff in a rubbermaid bin with some duct tape to keep the batteries from swelling, all to save a couple hundred bucks floats your boat, more power to ya!

You are right, if your level of expertise is duct tape, you should just spend the money for someone else's knowledge. As NW said, there are quality batteries with integral BMS protection that are popular with RVers that are readily and safely adaptable, but not by someone with no skills in that area.

 

[Fermion]

You are right, if your level of expertise is duct tape, you should just spend the money for someone else's knowledge. As NW said, there are quality batteries with integral BMS protection that are popular with RVers that are readily and safely adaptable, but not by someone with no skills in that area.

I have learned from building our own house that sometimes paying other people even when you know how to do something yourself will make sense lol.

 

[travelover]

I have learned from building our own house that sometimes paying other people even when you know how to do something yourself will make sense lol.

It is good to know your own skill level.

 

[Fermion]

It is good to know your own skill level.

I don't know exactly what you are trying to say, but what I am trying to say is that sometimes taking advantage of the economy of scale of manufacturing gives you a decent end product for a smaller amount of effort, even if you know exactly how to build something.

Like trying to build your own car rarely makes economic sense even though I know I could do it.

 

[NW-Bound]

The Yeti units are compact for their battery capacity. I think that their cells use NMC or NCA chemistry, instead of the safer and durable LFP cells which are heavier and larger.

I looked on the Web but have not found any info about the cell chemistry.


PS. Some past small Yeti units used AGM lead-acid batteries. A teardown of a smaller Yeti revealed 18650-sized lithium cells. Some other units may use LFP cells.

 

[travelover]

I don't know exactly what you are trying to say, but what I am trying to say is that sometimes taking advantage of the economy of scale of manufacturing gives you a decent end product for a smaller amount of effort, even if you know exactly how to build something.

Like trying to build your own car rarely makes economic sense even though I know I could do it.

My point is that sometimes you are benefiting from economy of scale and sometimes you are buying more sizzle than steak. If you understand the technicalities, you can find the sweet spot.

 

[finnski1]

The Yeti units are compact for their battery capacity. I think that their cells use NMC or NCA chemistry, instead of the safer and durable LFP cells which are heavier and larger.

I looked on the Web but have not found any info about the cell chemistry.

found this much on their web site

"Battery Details

• Cell chemistry: Li-ion NMC
• Pack capacity: 6071Wh (10.9V, 556Ah)
• Single Cell Equivalent Capacity: 1668Ah @ 3.6V
• Pack Lithium Content: 500g
• Lifecycles: 500 Cycles to 80% capacity (Discharge rate: 1C, Full charge/discharge, Temp: 25C)
• Shelf-life: Charge every 3-6 months
• Management system: MPPT charge controller"

ETA; Better yet here is the full pdf data sheets
https://www.goalzero.com/media/files/yeti-6000x-msds-159-0a5b.pdf

 

[travelover]

..........We are on a private well, so when our power goes out we lose our water supply too. I have thought about setting up a battery backup for the pump or getting a generator, but again that's a huge cost for a rare event. .........

We are on a well also with the same issue. My solution was to pick up a used 6000 watt generator for $200. It starts and runs well and supplies 220 volts for the pump. It even has an electric starter. I had to replace the service box when I bought the place so I installed an interlock and a generator inlet plug when I did the box.

 

[NW-Bound]

found this much on their web site

"Battery Details

• Cell chemistry: Li-ion NMC
• Pack capacity: 6071Wh (10.9V, 556Ah)
• Single Cell Equivalent Capacity: 1668Ah @ 3.6V
• Pack Lithium Content: 500g
• Lifecycles: 500 Cycles to 80% capacity (Discharge rate: 1C, Full charge/discharge, Temp: 25C)
• Shelf-life: Charge every 3-6 months
• Management system: MPPT charge controller"

ETA; Better yet here is the full pdf data sheets
https://www.goalzero.com/media/files/yeti-6000x-msds-159-0a5b.pdf

Thanks. I looked elsewhere but their Web site.

Anyway, I would much prefer LFP cells. They have a typical life of 2000 cycles to 80% capacity degradation, instead of 500 cycles.

And you can buy CATL cells prepackaged in an enclosure with an intergral BMS.

In case people do not know, Tesla is buying cells from CATL for the cars made in the Shanghai Tesla factory.

 

[Fermion]

The NMC cells are quite safe and they have a higher energy density than LFP, which is most likely why Goal Zero is using them (the LFP are cheaper). I imagine though that eventually most things will switch to LFP except maybe power tools.

It is just on the edge of portable at 69 pounds. If it were LFP maybe it would be 80 pounds? Not sure.

I have had the older version 3000 for three years now and it still seems to have about 97% capacity after 300+ cycles. Not sure if the life expectancy drop-off is not linear or if they were being very conservative with their 500 cycle life.

 

[meierlde]

I've mentioned this before, but you have to balance the backup power cost with the item you are backing up.



We are on a private well, so when our power goes out we lose our water supply too. I have thought about setting up a battery backup for the pump or getting a generator, but again that's a huge cost for a rare event. We found it cheaper to just buy several gallon jugs of bottled water ($5-10 depending on how many you want) and store them as needed. We can use them for drinking, flushing toilets, or washing up. If I was really serious about it, I could get a large water tank to store huge quantities of water.

Actually for flushing etc you can buy 6 gal water jugs for about $15 at walmart. Use them for toilet flushing etc, as even with a 1 gal flush toilet it will take a lot of jugs a day. Where I uaed to live on a small water system the water used to go out, and this allowed toilet flushes for a good while. (the house is on an non aerobic septic system, so it won't back up if the power is off at the sewage plant)

 

[mountainsoft]

Actually for flushing etc you can buy 6 gal water jugs for about $15 at walmart. Use them for toilet flushing etc, as even with a 1 gal flush toilet it will take a lot of jugs a day.

Depending on how full our pressure tank is when the power goes out, we usually have about 10-20 gallons or so left in the tank. That's good for 5-10 flushes or so.

I also keep a couple of 5 gallon water jugs out in the pump house for emergencies (with a tiny bit of bleach to keep them from going bad). In a pinch, that's another 5 flushes. Unfortunately, 5 gallons of water is rather heavy, and probably a bit much for my wife to carry down to the house and pour into the toilet tank herself.

I recently bought a few 1 gallon jugs of water to keep in the bathroom cabinet. They're easy to carry and a couple of those will refill the 1.6 gallon tank easily. That's good for another couple of flushes or so.

Of course, when the power goes out we often ration flushes anyway. There's no reason to dump 1.6 gallons of water just for a little urine. Skipping a flush or two doesn't hurt anything, and with two toilets in the house we can stretch that out a while too.

Despite all my prepping, we have never actually used any of our water jugs. I filled the 5 gallon jugs in the pump house back in 2014 and we haven't used them yet, despite several long power outages.

 

[iazona1]

No recent mentions on my forum searches about power banks.



Looking for a battery home backup system (not gas or solar) that can deliver some power during short periods of outages. TV, fan, frig, lamps and other small appliances are only appliances that we might use, so it should be fairly portable and not installed in-line with the home wiring.



Have seen some units ranging from 1k to 3k price range that look promising, but I don't know how to really evaluate them. Most brands are not familiar or have other mainstream products that are well known for quality. Lots of YouTube and online reviews are helpful, but I'm hoping someone on the forum has some expertise that can point me in the right direction.



Sorry for the ramble... TIA for your advice.

https://youtu.be/-LoxwibW0Ds

This YouTube video might work for you. Short review of what I believe to be the best kept secret for generators that would meet your needs and then son. Lots of other reviews on it too. Sounds like what you are after. I have 3 20lb tanks for LP. 1 is for grill, 1 backup for grill, and one designated just for the generator. I will only use fuel in an emergency. As you will see in the video, the LP outweighs fuel/gas in many ways. #1 is storage. You can throw an LP tank in the corner of a shed in almost any weather conditions and it will work fine when needed. Gas needs rotated and treated as it will rot and can cause engine damage, mainly to the carb. Comes complete with everything you need but the cords. Good Luck!!! iazona 1

 

[corn18]

https://youtu.be/-LoxwibW0Ds

This YouTube video might work for you. Short review of what I believe to be the best kept secret for generators that would meet your needs and then son. Lots of other reviews on it too. Sounds like what you are after. I have 3 20lb tanks for LP. 1 is for grill, 1 backup for grill, and one designated just for the generator. I will only use fuel in an emergency. As you will see in the video, the LP outweighs fuel/gas in many ways. #1 is storage. You can throw an LP tank in the corner of a shed in almost any weather conditions and it will work fine when needed. Gas needs rotated and treated as it will rot and can cause engine damage, mainly to the carb. Comes complete with everything you need but the cords. Good Luck!!! iazona 1

That particular Champion is one of the most popular for RVers. Many great reviews.

 

[travelover]

That particular Champion is one of the most popular for RVers. Many great reviews.

It is frequently sold at Costco, too. So, you get all the benefits of Costco if you buy it there. Costco also sells a Firman brand with similar features.

 

[Jeb-NY]

A friend bought a few, over time, smaller EcoFlo units that he scatters around the house in a power failure. I bought a 2KW unit and did some rewiring at the power panel so I could power the circuits I wanted.
https://ecoflow.com

I also have 3 CyberPower 1500 UPS units on critical equipment that I don't want to go down immediately. I switch to back up battery power if the power is off for more than a few minutes and I'm not sleeping. When the 2KW battery starts getting low I fire up a 2KW Honda inverter generator and charge the EcoFlow. The EchoFlow has more surge power than the generator so it levels out the start up spikes and you can set the charge rate you want the EcoFlow to charge at, unless I'm pulling a lot on average I can pick a charge rate that doesn't run the generator at full speed so it is quieter and uses less gas. Are normal use in a power out situation is less that 1 KW/hr, obviously it could go lower but we can pretty much go on with our normal routine at that pull.