Hot Water Heater Scare - Nice to be FI

[Route246]

Hot water heater stopped making hot water last Friday morning. Oops.

We have a top-end natural gas Noritz tankless, one of the best, made in Japan and useful life is estimated at 25 years, factory warranty is 12 years. It cost $5500 to install in 2017 and is our second Noritz, the first one died after 20 years of service. The 1-3/4" gas line cost $3000 to install back in 1996 and that was when we didn't have a lot of money so this was a long term investment.

That said, called service and he came out within an hour while I was at the office. Wife talked to him, he took the controller unit, blew out the dust and it started working again. He suspected humidity since it was mounted right above the washbasin so we moved it away from the high humidity area. Anyway, long story short, the service call was $99, at least for now.

The good news is, no amount of $$$ bad news if we needed a full replacement would have stressed either of us. The heater is 7 years old but we were ready to install a new one if necessary. Being FI is wonderful that way. As someone who was raised to be a provider and breadwinner I remember back when we were not so comfortable financially that something like this would put a chill and fear into my thinking. $99 would have been stressful but what if $3000 (new unit plus labor cost) would be needed to replace it?

It is nice to be FI, but I never forget where I came from, which makes it that much more sweet in terms of satisfaction and pride felt now.

 

[braumeister]

And the bonus is that now you will get to chuckle at all the folks who are going to chime in here with "Why are you heating your hot water?"

 

[GalaxyBoy]

And the bonus is that now you will get to chuckle at all the folks who are going to chime in here with "Why are you heating your hot water?"

I used to sit next to the plumbing engineers at w*rk. I made a point to say “hot water heater” every chance I got just to push their buttons.

But yes, it’s nice to be FI when the emergency arises. Even better to be RE

 

[Surewhitey]

I like having the time to try fixing things. Just replacing the a/c fan motor in the car & too many other things in the past 7 years back in the states... And YouTube.

 

[Route246]

And the bonus is that now you will get to chuckle at all the folks who are going to chime in here with "Why are you heating your hot water?"

I read these comments and I guess I was too dense to figure it out. I use the term hot water heater to distinguish it from a boiler. In many countries they still use small boilers to heat water and "hot water heater" is used to distinguish it from a water boiler. A hot water heater has an integrated thermostat whereas a boiler sometimes does not.

Being in amateur radio the same type word game is played with rotators. Some people call them "antenna rotors" and others call them "antenna rotators" and I just call them rotators. They are the same thing, yet the purists in the ham forums will nitpick people for calling them rotors and antenna rotors as being improper. There are a lot of older grumpy hams out there with nothing better to do than take shots at younger hams. Really a shame when you treat new entries into the world with such disrespect. When I was new to the hobby I just sat back and kept my mouth shut.

 

[Major Tom]

I remember back when we were not so comfortable financially that something like this would put a chill and fear into my thinking.

+1. When in my mid-20's, the transmission in the car my partner and I used died. We needed a new one. At the time, (late 80's), there was no way we could have come up with the $900 it was going to cost to replace. Luckily, she was working in sales for a local radio station. The GM figured that she was more useful to him with a car than without one, so he traded some advertising with a local auto repair shop for a new transmission, and saved us. That was the only time in my youth that lack of money would have proved very challenging, but I still remember it.

Nowadays, an unexpected lumpy expense much larger than that one would make me cringe, but I'd have the money to pay it in full. It is indeed wonderful knowing that all but the most extreme emergencies are unlikely to throw me off financially.

 

[jazz4cash]

Sounds like a BTD option.

 

[Route246]

+1. When in my mid-20's, the transmission in the car my partner and I used died. We needed a new one. At the time, (late 80's), there was no way we could have come up with the $900 it was going to cost to replace. Luckily, she was working in sales for a local radio station. The GM figured that she was more useful to him with a car than without one, so he traded some advertising with a local auto repair shop for a new transmission, and saved us. That was the only time in my youth that lack of money would have proved very challenging, but I still remember it.

Nowadays, an unexpected lumpy expense much larger than that one would make me cringe, but I'd have the money to pay it in full. It is indeed wonderful knowing that all but the most extreme emergencies are unlikely to throw me off financially.

I always discuss with my wife that the fact we never have to worry about how much something costs is such an enjoyable luxury we could not afford as recently as 10 years ago for extreme expenses. I'm not talking about BTD which is fun to think about, either. I'm talking about paying for unexpected LTC, life-saving medical procedures and treatment outside of insurance scope, rebuilding the house in the event of earthquake or fire in excess of insurance, etc.

I just told her, "Think about your friends and family and think about how many of them are in this type of financial shape. As a family we never have to worry about money ever again as long as we live. You need to be satisfied and proud of what we have achieved. I explained that even though I was the primary breadwinner in terms of paychecks that her management of the household budget, her focus on savings, education and saving as much as possible while not giving up simple pleasures and family vacations was imperative to the amount of compounding our assets utilized in the past 30 years."

I can safely say that even though I'm well-compensated and pretty good with investments she was my rock in terms of limiting my otherwise frivolous spending habits that would have otherwise materially impacted our savings compounding rate. It is clear this was a team effort.

 

[jollystomper]

We had a similar "scare" early in the spring. On the first warm day that should have triggered the outdoor AC compressor, it did not turn on. I lowered the thermostat, still nothing - just a "system is waiting" on the thermostat. The heat pump/AC is 12+ years old, and we knew sometime in retirement it would have to be replaced. It would be an annoyance but not unexpected.

We had a spring check scheduled in a few weeks, so we just waited. Fortunately we had few warm days during that period - outside temperature did not exceed 85 degrees, indoors got as hot as 80 but I could bear that. We also had 2 upstairs rooms with Window AC units, and a cool finished basement, where one could flee if it felt too warm.

When the inspection came, they "rebooted" the outdoor unit and all was well. It was something about there may have been a power situation that got the indoor heat pump and outdoor unit out of sync, heat pump sent a signal and was waiting, the outdoor unit never received the signal and shut down. Everything has been running fine since then - it would have been (and will be) an inconvenience to replace, but nothing more.

 

[Flyfish1]

I always discuss with my wife that the fact we never have to worry about how much something costs is such an enjoyable luxury we could not afford as recently as 10 years ago for extreme expenses. I'm not talking about BTD which is fun to think about, either. I'm talking about paying for unexpected LTC, life-saving medical procedures and treatment outside of insurance scope, rebuilding the house in the event of earthquake or fire in excess of insurance, etc.

I just told her, "Think about your friends and family and think about how many of them are in this type of financial shape. As a family we never have to worry about money ever again as long as we live. You need to be satisfied and proud of what we have achieved. I explained that even though I was the primary breadwinner in terms of paychecks that her management of the household budget, her focus on savings, education and saving as much as possible while not giving up simple pleasures and family vacations was imperative to the amount of compounding our assets utilized in the past 30 years."

I can safely say that even though I'm well-compensated and pretty good with investments she was my rock in terms of limiting my otherwise frivolous spending habits that would have otherwise materially impacted our savings compounding rate. It is clear this was a team effort.

Well said Route 246. We are very blessed to be in the same position in retirement. Years ago , the thought of a roof replacement or new water heater would stress me out. Now it's not a worry. That said, my boat needs a major hull refinishing next season - estimated $20K. Not upset, not losing sleep , just might cut into my travel budget that year or into our long term emergency account. But all will be fine. Lifestyle will carry on just fine.

BTW: we went with a heat pump style water heater last year - no gas involved any longer.

 

[ERD50]

Hot water heater stopped making hot water last Friday morning. Oops.

We have a top-end natural gas Noritz tankless, one of the best, made in Japan and useful life is estimated at 25 years, factory warranty is 12 years. It cost $5500 to install in 2017 and is our second Noritz, the first one died after 20 years of service. The 1-3/4" gas line cost $3000 to install back in 1996 and that was when we didn't have a lot of money so this was a long term investment.
...

I agree with the nice, relaxed feeling of being FI for these sorts of things, but I'm having trouble with the idea of this as "a long term investment.".

$3,000 in 1996 for the 1-3/4" gas line
$5,500 in 2017
? ,? ? ? ? for the original one from 1996~2016/7? ? ? ? (edit to split '?' to avoid auto-emoji)

So $3,000 + $3,000 (my SWAG on the 1st) minus a generous $1,000 for a tank water heater) in 1996 = $5,000. If invested 60/40 VTI/BND would be worth $16,500 today.

$5,500 in 2017 minus a $1,000 tank replace = $4,400, would be worth $11,100 today. Assuming tanks lasting 10 years, one more replacement in there ~ 2006?

Sounds like it has cost you over $25,000. Generally, the annual savings in gas costs for tankless/tank are pretty minimal. Our gas bill in summer is ~ $30, and most of that is fixed connect fees, hard to save more than $200 a year if you used no gas at all!

Maybe you had other reasons (space constraint, filling a soaking tub, or other), but I don't see how this qualifies as a long term investment. Seems better for the BTD thread!

 

[jazz4cash]

^That’s what I was thinking but too lazy to run the the numbers.

Sounds like a BTD option.

 

[Route246]

I agree with the nice, relaxed feeling of being FI for these sorts of things, but I'm having trouble with the idea of this as "a long term investment.".

$3,000 in 1996 for the 1-3/4" gas line
$5,500 in 2017
? ,? ? ? ? for the original one from 1996~2016/7? ? ? ? (edit to split '?' to avoid auto-emoji)

So $3,000 + $3,000 (my SWAG on the 1st) minus a generous $1,000 for a tank water heater) in 1996 = $5,000. If invested 60/40 VTI/BND would be worth $16,500 today.

$5,500 in 2017 minus a $1,000 tank replace = $4,400, would be worth $11,100 today. Assuming tanks lasting 10 years, one more replacement in there ~ 2006?

Sounds like it has cost you over $25,000. Generally, the annual savings in gas costs for tankless/tank are pretty minimal. Our gas bill in summer is ~ $30, and most of that is fixed connect fees, hard to save more than $200 a year if you used no gas at all!

Maybe you had other reasons (space constraint, filling a soaking tub, or other), but I don't see how this qualifies as a long term investment. Seems better for the BTD thread!

We were constrained on space for a conventional tank water heater and always running out of hot water due to too many things like washing dishes, loads of wash, too many showers, a soaking bath tub, etc. It just became annoying for the tank to heat up, especially in the winter. The tankless provides an endless supply of hot water and also saves quite a bit on gas because it is not maintaining the water in a tank for the 23 hours a day when it is not dispensing and heating hot water. The reduction in our gas bill was not substantial (probably 25-75/month) but we living in a PG&E monopoly and they charge a lot for natural gas and it only gets more expensive. It was an investment to save the marriage, no budget item, no choice but to fix it. It was an investment that paid off in terms of peace in the household. This was not a BTD because I really didn't have much choice in this matter. LOL.

 

[Music Lover]

The tankless provides an endless supply of hot water and also saves quite a bit on gas because it is not maintaining the water in a tank for the 23 hours a day when it is not dispensing and heating hot water.

Standby losses from regular HW tanks are minimal and highly exaggerated by tankless companies. We used to shut the breaker off on the HW tank at our cabin when we left but when we came back 2 days later the water was still warm. They really don't lose that much heat.

 

[Calico]

We were constrained on space for a conventional tank water heater and always running out of hot water due to too many things like washing dishes, loads of wash, too many showers, a soaking bath tub, etc. It just became annoying for the tank to heat up, especially in the winter. The tankless provides an endless supply of hot water and also saves quite a bit on gas because it is not maintaining the water in a tank for the 23 hours a day when it is not dispensing and heating hot water. The reduction in our gas bill was not substantial (probably 25-75/month) but we living in a PG&E monopoly and they charge a lot for natural gas and it only gets more expensive. It was an investment to save the marriage, no budget item, no choice but to fix it. It was an investment that paid off in terms of peace in the household. This was not a BTD because I really didn't have much choice in this matter. LOL.

Some things can't be measured in dollars and cents!