How to argue with unreasonable people about money and finances where there really are black and white, right and wrong ways of doing things….

[Retired Expat]

Couple of recent examples come to mind

1 relative who resisted for 2 years filing for Social Security after age 70 because….. well no excuse that made sense. Not wanting to get on the Gov’t radar, was lacking info he thought they would need but didn’t etc etc Still 2 years of benefits lost. $40k pissed away. Now busy patting himself on the back when the check comes in. Meanwhile we and his FA talked until blue in the face…

2 friend with an apartment full of stuff but he is retired and lives in another country. Pays carrying costs and taxes on the apartment but earns no income. All old papers and things from his working life that no one wants but only he thinks are very valuable. He hasn’t looked at them in a few years now. Yet can’t let go! I am inclined to hit him with a shovel! He loves to complain about his finances but refuses to even address the low hanging fruit. How to make people who are afraid of change, change or afraid of doing what they have argued against for so long but now realize they are wrong but embarrassed to face it?

Seems I am seeing more and more of this as the people around me age. Or is it me getting less and less tolerant as I age?

 

[COcheesehead]

You can’t fix stupid.

 

[OddGuy]

Only argue so long as it is entertaining for you.

 

[pacergal]

Live and let live.
If someone asks me for advice, I give it. Otherwise, I stay out of other peoples finances.

 

[Gumby]

I learned a long time ago that even if I know with 100% certainty what a person should do to make their life better, they will do only what they want to do. Ever since that epiphany, I have tried to limit myself to saying what I have done and why, rather than telling others what they should do. And, really, if their actions don't harm me, why should I care what they do?

 

[harllee]

So many of my friends have one or two storage buildings full of junk they pay monthly fees on. Why?

Friends older than me (almost 80) who live in a 2 story house with bedrooms and full baths upstairs, they have difficulty climbing stairs. They refuse to consider moving to a one level home (or better yet a CCRC). They have plenty of money.

Older friends who have no plans for aging, when I ask them if they have any plans they say their children will take care of them. But their children live across the country and I don't think they even had POAs etc.

I just shake my head.

 

[Car-Guy]

Sounds like my dad. Only my dad was much worse at finances. He lived so far below his means it would embarrass LBYM types around here. But on a very few things he would spend foolishly.

Example: When he passed away, his only car was worth less than 5k, yet he was keeping full coverage insurance and the lowest deductibles possible. He had several minor fender benders (big dents) but he wouldn't file a claim in fear they'd drop his coverage. Of course the insurance company loved him and I had more than few heated discussions with him about it.

 

[athena53]

I learned a long time ago that even if I know with 100% certainly what a person should do to make their life better, they will do only what they want to do. Ever since that epiphany, I have tried to limit myself to saying what I have done and why, rather than telling others what they should do. And, really, if their actions don't harm me, why should I care what they do?

I know. The field of Behavioral Economics addresses some of this behavior, when people make financial decisions that don't make sense when you look at the numbers. Storage units are a perfect example- I have a dear friend who opened one after COVID so he could set up a home office in his spare bedroom. He's struggling to pay off a lot of accumulated credit card debt. I once asked him how many active credit cards he had. He said, "You don't want to know". (I suspect he doesn't know and that he doesn't even know his current level of debt.) The storage unit is apparently filled with things his late parents touched so he can't let go of them.

I typically avoid discussions on finances because he's in denial. I made the awful mistake of letting my first husband's financial problems become mine. Never again.

 

[wrigley]

Why?

 

[imjustawarrior]

They are adults. They are allowed to make their own decisions. There is no need to argue.

Based on how you titled this thread, I could see that people may not want to listen to you. A softer approach may be more affective.

 

[Slim11]

If they ask offer advise, if you offer advise and they dont listen, then thats the end of it. Next time it comes up ignore it or do what I do and say thats a great idea. Lead a horse to water comes to mind.

 

[Jerry1]

As most have indicated, it’s not something worth taking on. People are going to live their life. If they’re not reaching out to you for advice, engage on something else. It’s never worth your time to try to change someone unless/until they’re ready to change.

 

[Car-Guy]

As most have indicated, it’s not something worth taking on. People are going to live their life. If they’re not reaching out to you for advice, engage on something else. It’s never worth your time to try to change someone unless/until they’re ready to change.

Generally yes... But in the case of the very elderly, "sometimes" they need advice but just don't recognize or want to believe it.

 

[marko]

The real question is will OP heed the advice given here.

The answer is really black and white with a right and wrong way of doing things.

 

[Elle_N]

I wonder if a better title for the thread might be: What is the psychology behind people not implementing another's advice that is common sense or denotes basic math?

Else I agree with others that when asked for advice, phraseology like, "What I have done is... " is best. Subsequently, go in peace.

 

[Aerides]

You don't.

Arguing about money with friends and family is a sure way to end up with neither.

 

[Sorcerer]

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[big-papa]

Nothing to be gained by arguing about financial matters with anybody, except possibly a spouse. If somebody asks, I tell them what we do and quickly follow up with a comment that this is what we find works for us. I then state that everybody's situation is different and I leave it at that. If pressed, I'll recommend some books/authors, but that's as far as I'll go.

Cheers.

 

[Chuckanut]

I don't argue or discuss finances anymore unless somebody asks me what I think. Then I tell them what I have done, and how well it has or has not worked for me. They can take if from there. If they want more of my thoughts on financial matters they can ask for it. If not, that's OK also.

A recent discussion at the senior center was about investing in gold and what I will call assorted non US currencies. Their claim is that the US dollar is pure fiat money, just paper, with nothing to back it up. But, apparently these other forms of currency are backed up by something. Nobody could tell me what form of backing they had much less why it was superior , but they seem to think it must be better than US currency from the most productive economy in the world. OK, whatever. Good luck.

FWIW, I have had some success in getting people to use more brokerage sold CDs to earn more interest.

 

[brett]

Why bother trying to live someone else's life for them?

Life is too short for that.

Exit stage left and leave him or her to it.

 

[Amethyst]

My immediate response to the title was "Don't bother" unless your advice has been sought (even then, prepare for resistance) or they've been goring your personal ox (ditto).

 

[Sunset]

Nothing to be gained by arguing about financial matters with anybody, except possibly a spouse. If somebody asks, I tell them what we do and quickly follow up with a comment that this is what we find works for us. I then state that everybody's situation is different and I leave it at that. If pressed, I'll recommend some books/authors, but that's as far as I'll go.

Cheers.

I think I'd rather argue with a stranger

 

[skipro33]

It's not just finances, politics is the other hot button where people refuse to either do the necessary research for success or bury their head in the sand when facts do not align to how they think things are.
It's like they equate finances with religion; they are convinced they are right but refuse to examine any aspect beyond their conviction. They twist the facts to rationalize their opinions.
In all those cases, I find people view me as ignorant or even stupid until they are aware of my success. Then it's just dumb luck, coincidence, certainly not of MY doing, which makes them angry or envious, neither of which is condusive to a healthy relationship.
I've learned how to just smile and wave as I slowly move away....

 

[Sunset]

I can see OP's frustration in dealing with people that OP cares about and those same people are making some obvious and blatant mistakes.

The 70 yr old not claiming SS is of course a huge stupid mistake, I did read that 9.x% of old folks do claim SS between age 70 and 74, so it seems it's not too uncommon.

Reality is some people are stubborn, resistant to change, and getting involved with them takes a lot of effort sometimes, something that has to be carefully considered.

The people living in a 2 story, maybe they love the house, hate the effort of a move, a stair chair would solve the issue, something they can think about while their knees hurt going up the stairs each day.

 

[Sunset]

Seems like everyone knows somebody with a storage unit full of junk that keeps being rented for years with no plan to get rid of the stuff or use the stuff.