How to help an acquaintance that is clearly having signs of dementia.

[Time2]

We have a weekly breakfast with the guys, one of the regulars (86 yrs old) stopped going several years ago. I'll refer to him as Bill. Bill has had dozens of invites to come have breakfast, but he would not. Most of our contact is through the 6 daily emails he sent to a some of us, of which we had little interest in. If the emails stopped, someone would check on him or have a wellness check done and often a visit after that. The emails stopped, one of my buddies stop in to check on him. My Buddy called me and said Bill is having mental problems. Bill said, he got robbed and they stole his Ham radios and his antenna tower, and they used a machete to cut his internet cable, thus no emails. He also said he slept most of the time. For 20 yrs the computer was this guys life, overclocking, downloading 10s of thousands of songs and then thousands of movies or just using the internet.
I told my buddy, I'm not sure what to do about his mental state, but let's get his internet working, that will at least stimulate his mind a bit. When we showed up, there were cut cables, but they were old cable companies and his current one was in good condition. So we went in and started asking about things. We found the cable disconnected from the router, we also had other problems getting the computer to boot properly, but finally got it all working. He needed a password to get into his email, he did not know the password and he does not have a phone, for two factor verification. We suggested he start a new email account, he said, "no, that's ok". We found, he still had his radios, but the tower was gone. He told us he got a knock at the door and 8 guys came in and stole his tower. He told us it was just down the road about a mile, later he told us it was probably sold for scrap. Anyway a lot of things he said lead us to believe he is having mental problems. He has also lost over 50 lbs from the last time we saw him.
He has a sister 800 miles away and lucky my buddy has their phone number, sadly when he called, the husband related his own sad tail about Bill's sister, she is in full blown Alzheimers, along with others in the family. Bill has no kids or wife, there is one nephew a couple hundred miles away, but sad to say when he visited several years ago, he wanted to borrow money, he was told no, and he never contacted Bill again. But we are now concerned Bill may not be able to do that again, (or be coerced).
We want to get him help, but we also don't want to get him involved with an agency that commits him takes over all his affairs and his money. We ask if he was having any financial problems, he said he is a millionaire. We are a little skeptical, we know he had money, he spends little, but we also know he was doing day trading, two different stints, we kinda doubt that he did well at it.
I do think we need to setup a doctors appointment to get him checked, we don't know what meds he is taking or if he is taking them.
So a little rant and looking for ways to help him.

 

[Ronstar]

Sounds similar to my MIL. Lots of unplugging. (Including her pacemaker monitor). Claims of people coming in stealing things while she is asleep. She opens her window to get cell phone coverage. And can’t close it. Can’t remember what she had for lunch 10 minutes after eating. For a day or so, she thought FDR was president. She lives alone 10 minutes from us- every day is a new adventure.

OP- the only advice I can offer to you is to have someone get POA and take control of your buddy’s finances, including taking his credit card. Oh and take away the car keys if he’s still driving.

 

[MarieIG]

Kudos to you for wanting to help a friend in need.

I would start with having someone check in with him on a daily basis, make sure he is getting good food, his medications, some sunlight, a little exercise and interaction. I would make sure his home was sanitary.

I would then obtain a durable power of attorney and hire at least part time help for home maintenance. I would look into getting the paperwork to allow you to participate in, or at least monitor health care.

 

[RetiredHappy]

Unless you can do something about, you have no authority. Does he have a Health Care Directive, POA for Health and Finance? While you do not an agency to get involved to take over his affairs and money, that's the only way to keep him safe. I would strongly suggest calling Adult Protective Services.

 

[aja8888]

My daily meetup (ROMEO) group has a guy currently in similar straits. Fortunately, he has a wife who is trying to get him put in an assisted living place, but that' s not going well (he doesn't want to go). She says she can't take care of him, which is probably true. It's a mess.

I don't know what to tell you because your friend has no family help and friends have not much power to do anything realistic.

I'm pushing 82 and this stuff is scaring me. My group lost one guy to a stroke (2 years ago), one guy had a stroke and is mobile but needs a walker, one guy hit his head and ended up dying, and the latest guy that fell is in rehab.

 

[Gumby]

Unless you can do something about, you have no authority. Does he have a Health Care Directive, POA for Health and Finance? While you do not an agency to get involved to take over his affairs and money, that's the only way to keep him safe. I would strongly suggest calling Adult Protective Services.

Good idea. In my state, that is done by the Department of Social Services, but you can look online for your state's equivalent.

 

[ivinsfan]

IMO at this point you have two choices, go into the battle with another friend or two..or call in the state. Keep in mind the road will be unbelievably hard and will likely end in your friend going into a care situation. I dealt with my MIL in this situation and it was extremely time consuming and stressful. I was in my early 50's when that happened. Don't underestimate for a minute the effect this will have on your own well being.

I'm going to echo RH and say call in Adult protective services.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I can tell you from personal experience that it’s impossible to keep someone with dementia in their home. It involves driving over multiple times a day for medications, etc.

My friend poisoned herself because she put the frozen food in the microwave and cooked it and then forgot about it. Hours later she heated it again and ate it. She got really sick.

Luckily I had POA for health and financial. I found her a suitable facility. She didn’t want to go. It was heartbreaking.

The only other alternative would have been to have adult protective services step in. I didn’t want to do that because they hire a guardian and they don’t care about the person. I was able to visit often and make sure my friend got good care.

 

[pacergal]

I am sorry your friend is going through this.
I agree with others who've. mentioned getting Adult social services involved. Yes, they may take over, but it sounds like that is better than having the nephew take advantage. At minimum, your friend needs a full physical and mental health evaluation. If you and one other friend are able to schedule that and accompany him, and he is willing to go, great.
I believe calls to Adult Protective Services can remain confidential, if you have concerns about your friend finding out.
Your friend, Bill, does not sound like he is safe to live by himself any longer.
Is the weight loss due to forgetting to eat or another physical problem? Are his bills getting paid, etc. There is much to decipher and you may not want to be that involved. APS can help.

 

[Koolau]

I've been through this with so many friends and family that it's perhaps my greatest personal fear now. I don't have good suggestions but agree with ivinsfan. This will absolutely drain you if you let it. There's no easy or obvious way to deal with it either. Short of some kind of commitment (not easy to get) you may be your friend's only life-line. It will "cost" you - and not so much in money.

And, when the end comes, do NOT let it bother you that you feel relief!!

 

[Sunset]

OP - Adult protective services is annoymous, wont' even tell you what they have done, BUT they really are only concerned about person being healthy and not at risk of death. So will allow someone to steal by getting Bill to give them all his money.
The APS person told me, giving away the house was not a good decision, but even healthy people make bad decisions.

So if you care, at least somehow "lock" up Bill's main accounts.
If there was an agency that would handle his money, dole it out to him, at least he wouldn't be robbed.

Also sounds like he is not eating, probably needs meals on wheels and possibly other food delivered, see how this all gets so involved.

Really, he needs to go into an old folks home, maybe independent living with meals, so he can eat everyday and have a place where stuff is taken care of and doctor on site. Soon bound for a locked Alzheimer's ward.

 

[Route246]

Both of my parents had dementia at the end, as did my brother. Luckily for them they had two sons (including me) who stepped in and took care of their affairs, my mother went first but we helped my father take care of her. My parents had ample financial resources but if my brother and I had not been around I fear both of them would have been very vulnerable to being swindled. They were very trusting and good natured people. Both of them were also extremely independent. Luckily, I had sufficient financial resources to take care of any short-term financial expenses, my brother and I agreed that we would settle at the time of splitting the inheritance. Later, when my brother became ill with dementia before our father died it was left to me to take care of our father's affairs. Talk about stress, we lost our mother 5 years prior, I was losing my brother and father in slow motion and I was left with the weight of the world on my shoulders dealing with brother's family, two dear nephews who were devastated at the thought of losing their father in slow motion. In this case I just hunkered down and went into crisis mode and that helped me get through it. I never felt a sense of pity or distress, luckily I was in the mode of just getting through this and pull out all stops to make sure there were no regrets. It did help to have personal financial resources which eliminated a significant worry point. I could always buy our way out of any situation to make sure that we could have the best options available for both of them. It really helps when it is your parent and your sibling that is relying on you, I had no doubts about any decision, I was just going to decide what was best for them and not deal with Medicare or other limitations at that time. That said, all ended as best as could be expected, both of them transitioned in relative comfort, with family present at the end and not loose ends to tie off. I feel blessed it turned out this way, it could have been a lot worse.

In your case, since you are not family and you have no POA the feeling must be of utter helplessness. Do what you can, have no regrets about it and if it goes south you should feel no remorse or guilt, your constraints are due to legality, privacy and protective measures in place to prevent being swindled.

 

[RetiredHappy]

OP - Adult protective services is annoymous, wont' even tell you what they have done, BUT they really are only concerned about person being healthy and not at risk of death. So will allow someone to steal by getting Bill to give them all his money.
The APS person told me, giving away the house was not a good decision, but even healthy people make bad decisions.

So if you care, at least somehow "lock" up Bill's main accounts.
If there was an agency that would handle his money, dole it out to him, at least he wouldn't be robbed.

Also sounds like he is not eating, probably needs meals on wheels and possibly other food delivered, see how this all gets so involved.

Really, he needs to go into an old folks home, maybe independent living with meals, so he can eat everyday and have a place where stuff is taken care of and doctor on site. Soon bound for a locked Alzheimer's ward.

It is not true. The social worker from APS will go to court to file for guardianship and a public fiduciary will take cover the person's affairs. Now, the public fiduciary costs money and bills by hours. They will decide to hire caregivers for him or not, or place him in a facility. All these are done to keep him safe.

In my prior work, I dealt with private fiduciaries, who also could be appointed by the courts for at risk adults. Some are more "honest" than others.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I can tell you from personal experience that it’s impossible to keep someone with dementia in their home. It involves driving over multiple times a day for medications, etc.

My friend poisoned herself because she put the frozen food in the microwave and cooked it and then forgot about it. Hours later she heated it again and ate it. She got really sick.

Luckily I had POA for health and financial. I found her a suitable facility. She didn’t want to go. It was heartbreaking.

The only other alternative would have been to have adult protective services step in. I didn’t want to do that because they hire a guardian and they don’t care about the person. I was able to visit often and make sure my friend got good care.

Whenever I read threads like this, I think we all might need a Teacher Terry to come to our rescue. What an amazing friend you are and have been to others.

 

[Sunset]

It is not true. The social worker from APS will go to court to file for guardianship and a public fiduciary will take cover the person's affairs. Now, the public fiduciary costs money and bills by hours. They will decide to hire caregivers for him or not, or place him in a facility. All these are done to keep him safe.

In my prior work, I dealt with private fiduciaries, who also could be appointed by the courts for at risk adults. Some are more "honest" than others.

Just relating my personal experience with APS dealing with one Uncle who gave his house away. They were interested in him being physically safe, but fine with him giving away his house.

 

[Ronstar]

I called in a cognitive test to soon to be 96 yo MIL yesterday. She did pretty well. I made up some questions:

How many eggs in a dozen?
What direction would you be going if you walked to the nearby high school?
What side of the closest river do you live on?
Which of your 3 kids is the oldest?
What day of the week is it?
What year?
What month?
Who is the president of the United States?

She only missed one - she thinks that Biden is still the president. I must have caught her on one of her better moments, because usually she wouldn't do this well. She hardly ever knows what day it is.

I plan on doing similar tests once a week to see what happens. I think it helps to charge older brains with some thinking tasks frequently.

 

[Koolau]

Whenever I read threads like this, I think we all might need a Teacher Terry to come to our rescue. What an amazing friend you are and have been to others.

Indeed. If we live long enough, most of us will need Teacher Terry to help us in our dotage. Thank God for people who care.

I had to go searching for my dad and FIL a few times. I told everyone that I didn't favor locking them up in a house. If they got lost, someone would find them (and always did). If they should be injured, it was because they had some freedom left in their lives. Taking that away from them was worse than the potential of injuries.

Eventually, it was necessary to send dad to a memory care unit where there was very little freedom. But at least for a couple of years he could putter in the garden or go for a walk. I was willing to deal with the occasional wandering. My mom was cool with it too.

 

[Exchme]

It is not true. The social worker from APS will go to court to file for guardianship and a public fiduciary will take cover the person's affairs. Now, the public fiduciary costs money and bills by hours. They will decide to hire caregivers for him or not, or place him in a facility. All these are done to keep him safe.

In my prior work, I dealt with private fiduciaries, who also could be appointed by the courts for at risk adults. Some are more "honest" than others.

This is our experience too. There were two types of documents, one to manage the person/their health (guardian) and the other to manage their assets (conservator). The state will have a pool of folks that do these; the conservator has to keep books on what was spent from the afflicted person's assets and submit that to a judge. Your friend will foot the bills for all that plus the memory care until the assets run out.

Since OP is not a relative, getting appointed either guardian or conservator is not in the cards, the court will appoint someone from their pool. The best that OP can do is ensure that process gets rolling, help with items others have suggested and be their as a friend to help alleviate loneliness, fix little things that have gone wrong, etc.

 

[Time2]

My buddy and I stopped to see Bill (the fellow having cognitive problems) again. We suggested we should open and look at the hundred or so envelopes that were strewn about. We found most of his bills are on auto pay. But his auto plate is 8 months expired and his house insurance is due, a little late so a small extra charge.
I noticed a Walmart prescription bag where he paid $426 for a prescription of Rosuvastatin, when GoodRX has it for $31.15. Also another med that he paid $130, GoodRx has it for $35. He's about do for the next refill so, we'll make sure he doesn't get overcharged. We found he had about $16,000 of checks in his wallet. He is hesitant to put them in the bank because he hasn't filled taxes for at least 15 years. I don't know how he gets away with it because he has done day trading with 1099s and he had at least two K1s. he also has a fidelity account. He has a million dollars, so at 86 yrs old it should be enough even if he has to pay for inpatient care. The nephew we had concerns about did stop and see him, he gave him a phone and put food in the fridge, even though the fridge has barely cooled for the last 10 years. We could not get him to get it fixed or buy himself a new one. I plan on seeing him later this week and see if he got plates an paid his property tax.

 

[Gremlin]

My buddy and I stopped to see Bill (the fellow having cognitive problems) again. We suggested we should open and look at the hundred or so envelopes that were strewn about. We found most of his bills are on auto pay. But his auto plate is 8 months expired and his house insurance is due, a little late so a small extra charge.
I noticed a Walmart prescription bag where he paid $426 for a prescription of Rosuvastatin, when GoodRX has it for $31.15. Also another med that he paid $130, GoodRx has it for $35. He's about do for the next refill so, we'll make sure he doesn't get overcharged. We found he had about $16,000 of checks in his wallet. He is hesitant to put them in the bank because he hasn't filled taxes for at least 15 years. I don't know how he gets away with it because he has done day trading with 1099s and he had at least two K1s. he also has a fidelity account. He has a million dollars, so at 86 yrs old it should be enough even if he has to pay for inpatient care. The nephew we had concerns about did stop and see him, he gave him a phone and put food in the fridge, even though the fridge has barely cooled for the last 10 years. We could not get him to get it fixed or buy himself a new one. I plan on seeing him later this week and see if he got plates a paid his property tax.

You are an amazing friend.

 

[steady saver]

Agree!

 

[audreyh1]

Wow, sounds like there have been issues for at least 10 years!

 

[skyking1]

It is a huge task you are stepping up to. I am glad you are not doing it alone. You and your buddy are more likely to get a good response from Bill when you go over there as a concerned team, rather than as individuals.
Nothing we can say here will really help you but keep venting as needed.
Bravo indeed.

 

[Koolau]

My buddy and I stopped to see Bill (the fellow having cognitive problems) again. We suggested we should open and look at the hundred or so envelopes that were strewn about. We found most of his bills are on auto pay. But his auto plate is 8 months expired and his house insurance is due, a little late so a small extra charge.
I noticed a Walmart prescription bag where he paid $426 for a prescription of Rosuvastatin, when GoodRX has it for $31.15. Also another med that he paid $130, GoodRx has it for $35. He's about do for the next refill so, we'll make sure he doesn't get overcharged. We found he had about $16,000 of checks in his wallet. He is hesitant to put them in the bank because he hasn't filled taxes for at least 15 years. I don't know how he gets away with it because he has done day trading with 1099s and he had at least two K1s. he also has a fidelity account. He has a million dollars, so at 86 yrs old it should be enough even if he has to pay for inpatient care. The nephew we had concerns about did stop and see him, he gave him a phone and put food in the fridge, even though the fridge has barely cooled for the last 10 years. We could not get him to get it fixed or buy himself a new one. I plan on seeing him later this week and see if he got plates an paid his property tax.

Sounds like a total train wreck. Bill is lucky to have you and your buddy as friends. Unfortunately, these things tend to get worse and not better. At least family has a theoretical opportunity to gain legal guardianship, but in this situation, you have to count on Bill to cooperate and allow you to continue helping him. His situation will likely take all the efforts you are willing to provide - and more.

I hope you are rewarded eventually, because, for now, it will likely be stressful. Blessings on you!

 

[Teacher Terry]

OP, your friend is very lucky to have you. It’s a lot of work until they go into some type of facility. My friend was living with her husband but he was dying from cancer and also needed help. Eventually the two of them were too much for us. It ended because we were going on a 3 week vacation.

Because I had been a social worker I bought the forms that my friend needed to sign to be her guardian. She wasn’t competent to sign them but we all knew it was in her best interests. In this state they didn’t have to be notarized but just have 2 witnesses and mutual friends were willing to sign.

I insisted that her husband also put his son on the financial accounts for 2 reasons. I wanted the finances to be transparent and in case I died the bills would get paid. After a while I asked him to take over the finances because I had enough to do.

Even once she was in a facility it was a lot of work to be her guardian. I’m glad I did it but wouldn’t want to do it again.

However, her life would have been much worse without me overseeing her care. Her cancer came back and I didn’t treat it. Her husband and I made the decision before he died.

Your friend has enough money to go to a nice facility. The problem will be getting him to agree to. Only you can decide how involved you want to be. I just did what I hoped someone would do for me in that situation. If she had children things probably would have been different. Her step kids weren’t interested in helping.