Interesting finding from the Webb telescope

[Koolau]

The movie "The Martian" was likely full of technical and scientific "holes" but pointed out serious issues with colonization of Mars. It's too darn cold. It has no organic material (that we know of) to grow food. Without oxygen, we would need to make our own and we don't know how much water is available to electrolyze to oxygen. Then there's that pesky issue of 38% the gravity of Earth. Sounds like fun for a while, but we were "designed" with 1G of gravity. Lots of issues with that though we might learn/adapt (dare I say it, evolve) to the reduced gravity.

Then, there's all that radiation. We can engineer around that, but it just points out: Mars is NOT much like the Earth and we're not suited for it without dozens (hundreds?) of adaptations.

Yes, Matt D did figure out how to use his own waste for organic growing materials and that's likely what we'd do. But IIRC his "digs" on Mars were pretty tenuous (for all their sophistication).

I'm skeptical that we'll ever truly colonize Mars, but I was wrong once (thought I'd made a mistake - and I hadn't).

 

[CaptTom]

I think the whole argument about terraforming is a red herring. We're not at that point now. We're not going to be at that point in the lifetimes of anyone here's grandchildren. Probably much longer.

But of course the real irony of both sides of that debate is that, by the time we have the technology to terraform Mars, we'll also have the technology to terraform Earth.

So the debate isn't "why don't we take care of Earth instead of moving to Mars?"

Some day, we'll be able to do both. If we don't plunge ourselves back into the stone age, first.

 

[dixonge]

Regardless the timeframes and difficulty levels I would not bet against Musk on pretty much any project he starts up. Not all will work out, but if you just listen to other 'experts' explaining why it will never work you will miss the fact that somehow it almost always does, in fact, work out.

Space travel, cars, tunnels, robots, X, solar power, battery plants, AI, brain implants -- basically take everything he says and modify exactly one thing about it; the timeframe. Extend that out and you're good.

 

[Gotadimple]

Colonization of any planet will need to be with one that has an atmosphere of that breathable stuff. Kind of tough not having an ample supply of oxygen readily available. And if you are going to "make" the stuff, what from if there is no very large amount of raw materials?

Umm . . . no. Many raw materials. This from a Canadian science journal. Materials Available for Utilization on Mars - New Space Economy
"Mars offers a diverse range of materials that can be utilized for exploration and settlement. From regolith and water ice to atmospheric gases and metallic ores, each resource presents unique opportunities and challenges. Harnessing these materials will require innovative technologies and strategies, but their successful utilization is key to establishing a sustainable human presence on the Red Planet."

Drill, baby, Drill.

 

[aja8888]

Umm . . . no. Many raw materials. This from a Canadian science journal. Materials Available for Utilization on Mars - New Space Economy
"Mars offers a diverse range of materials that can be utilized for exploration and settlement. From regolith and water ice to atmospheric gases and metallic ores, each resource presents unique opportunities and challenges. Harnessing these materials will require innovative technologies and strategies, but their successful utilization is key to establishing a sustainable human presence on the Red Planet."

Drill, baby, Drill.

I'll be waiting to watch those boring rigs running off a big power grid to drill for some large quantities of ore that has to be refined in a huge furnace or other large facility. Maybe NASA will provide videos?

 

[CO-guy]

The majority of people are good, a few % are evil, the rest are the lunatic fringe that depends on who they are around.

To quote Carl Sagan: "We are all made of star stuff."

 

[HFWR]

I'll be waiting to watch those boring rigs running off a big power grid to drill for some large quantities of ore that has to be refined in a huge furnace or other large facility. Maybe NASA will provide videos?

CGI

 

[Koolau]

To quote Carl Sagan: "We are all made of star stuff."

And Joni Mitchell said:

We are stardust
Billion year old carbon

 

[aja8888]

We have hit (already) the 100 post limit on rambling threads. Bye!

 

[2HOTinPHX]

We have hit (already) the 100 post limit on rambling threads. Bye!

Well it's been interesting and fun. We will miss you....

 

[Zathras]

I think the whole argument about terraforming is a red herring. We're not at that point now. We're not going to be at that point in the lifetimes of anyone here's grandchildren. Probably much longer.

But of course the real irony of both sides of that debate is that, by the time we have the technology to terraform Mars, we'll also have the technology to terraform Earth.

So the debate isn't "why don't we take care of Earth instead of moving to Mars?"

Some day, we'll be able to do both. If we don't plunge ourselves back into the stone age, first.

Actually, we are.
We are currently transforming earth.
Mars we could start the process, but there are limits due to its size and incoming radiation.

Now, the terraforming of Mars, we could start now is very slow. But we could definitely start the process.

The transforming of earth has been done before.
Ancient earth had very little/no free oxygen.
Microbes had a meeting and thought it would be a good idea, so they altered our atmosphere in a major way.

Time is the big question.
Mars settlement will probably start underground, move to domes and might take millennia to get to free roaming surface dwelling. But it could start today.

Unlike many, I feel that we need to increase its mass first.
And all of this is FAR more expensive that mankind can afford, but it is possible.

If the end goal is dome living it becomes much easier as you don’t need to increase the mass first.

 

[CaptTom]

Since we're now "rambling" anyway...

I never know how to answer the people who claim that we have already "ruined" Earth.

Who's to say how Earth is "supposed" to be? Did those above-mentioned cyanobacteria "ruin" the Earth by producing too much waste Oxygen?

To me, the ideal would be making the world a better place for ourselves, while minimizing the impact on other species. Of course you can debate what's "better" all day, but so far evolution has pretty much been the ultimate arbitrator.

I don't feel sorry about being alive. Even though I know that I, along with 8 billion of my closest friends, are doing some real damage to our home planet. We each have a choice. We can go on living and contributing to the problem, while still trying to help where we can, or we can volunteer to remove ourselves from the ecosystem. Don't complain if others don't chose the latter option, unless you will too.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

fwiw... backyard 45 miles away, space launch -between the wires you may see the capsule (golden color)

 

[folivier]

Leaving religion out of it, how do we know what the earth is supposed to be like?
We don't, it has been evolving for billions of years. We can only theorize how it was in the far distant past. And even the recent past measured in millions of years ago or even hundreds of thousands of years ago. And how it will evolve in the future?
We kinda know (theorize) that there have been recent ice ages then warming periods, ocean levels changing, but which is the "right" one? Humans have only been on this planet for a blink of an eye. Whether you believe or don't about human caused climate change we won't destroy the earth. We might change the temperature balance a bit but nowhere like what it has changed in the past.
So what is it supposed to be like?

 

[HFWR]

Forget the earth, save the humans.

 

[CaptTom]

Whether you believe or don't about human caused climate change we won't destroy the earth.

Right! The Earth doesn't care if we live or die. Or if our cities flood, or we get more destructive hurricanes, or island nations are wiped out, or deserts expand or any of that.

Now, we might just care. But what any one of us chooses to believe is also irrelevant. I don't even like using that word. The only thing which matters is reality, not my belief.

 

[Zathras]

There is no ‘right’ way for the earth to be.
There is a particular environment in which humans were able to cultivate the earth and spread across it.
There is some flexibility in the environment, but we are pushing beyond those bounds in ways we don’t understand well yet.

Anything that changes the environment in such a way to make it more difficult for our society to exist is generally seen as a bad direction. Things that increase the death toll of humans is generally seen as the wrong direction.

‘Save the Earth’ is a shorthand way of saying ‘let’s not damage the ecosystem in such a way as to disrupt the range of environmental conditions that our society relies on’.
“Save humanity’ might be another way to say it, although it isn’t accurate either.

 

[corn18]

We cannot destroy the earth anymore than an asteroid could. Mother Nature always wins. Maybe if we kill ourselves off, a better life form will evolve.