Is a college degree worth it when it comes to eventual FIRE?

[MrBojangles]

I would think someone with a BS in Geography would be in demand in the oil/gas/mining industry.

Now, yes, perhaps. Then, in the early 1990s, it was a vastly different job market and even those with far better degrees than I were unemployed and underemployed. It’s all about the TIMING.

To put it into perspective, it’s when George H W Bush was defeated by Clinton due to the horrible economy.

Plus I was mostly searching in an area with limited job opportunities, because it was close to home, and in NYC which, much to my amazement, can have a population over 8 million and still bleak job prospects.

It’s interesting you consider Geography STEM. I never did, and thought it debatable all those other key math and science classes I took were. Employers certainly didn’t welcome me with open arms because of it.

And it wasn’t because of being regarded as a wack job when it comes to the almighty dollar and employment. I never even made it that far to screw up royally. Which, at that time, I would have.

 

[AudiDudi]

I am well aware of the crappy job market in that time frame as megacorp gave me the opportunity to seek employment elsewhere. I had been in the computer mainframe (hardware) arena back then and spent the next 18 months training myself to switch over to the new(er) server market and software testing Windows products. I had no degree and was over 40 trying to get a job competing against the recent CS grads that were about 22. It was an interesting time

 

[Koolau]

There are 1700 restaurants here in Stepfordville. Now throw in the folks driving the garbage trucks, mowing the lawns, cleaning the johns, etc. The “teens and college students” analogy falls apart pretty quickly.

Of course the highly-skilled should be compensated well. But the folks who will never be an engineer needs jobs too, just not two or three.

Off my soapbox…

Probably not worth a debate on this.

 

[1242Vintage]

In my industry, Civil Engineering, you need at least a Bachelors Degree in engineering to get a Professional Engineers (PE) license. Without a PE your career opportunities are limited to a life of low paying construction inspector, lab material testing and CADD technician jobs.

So, yes a college degree in my industry is worth it.

 

[latexman]

BSChE here. Started in 1979 at < $20k/yr. Retired last year at > $200k/yr. It was worthwhile for me. New BSChE’s start these days at about $84k/yr.

 

[1242Vintage]

BSChE here. Started in 1979 at < $20k/yr. Retired last year at > $200k/yr. It was worthwhile for me. New BSChE’s start these days at about $84k/yr.

I made it through lower division engineering chemistry with a C-. That grade was a gift and I was happy it wasn’t any lower!

 

[aja8888]

I would think someone with a BS in Geography would be in demand in the oil/gas/mining industry.

I spent near 40 years in the oil & gas business and never ran across a geography major. Now some geophysical engineers and geologists are in demand as they have the skills to find hydrocarbons.

 

[Beststash]

Where I worked, you could not advance above a "B" level without a graduate degree. That being said, they provided a tuition refund that reimbursed you for all expenses, including books, as long as you maintained at least a 3.0 GPA. I thought it was a good system because if you were on track to advance, in my case I got the promotion after I graduated - a nice reward for the work.

Not sure how it works these days - that was over 20 years ago.

As far as FIRE....the promotion increased by pension, which allowed me to leave earlier than I would have otherwise.

 

[MrBojangles]

I spent near 40 years in the oil & gas business and never ran across a geography major. Now some geophysical engineers and geologists are in demand as they have the skills to find hydrocarbons.

There’s a huge difference between a Geography and Geology major. Despite having several Geology classes, I wasn’t a Geology major. Petrology was regarded as a very tough course, and I avoided it. I really ended up as a Geography major because the courses were easy, no weed out courses. That did me no favors in life.

Engineering was tough, and was > a 4 year program. Petrology was a fast ticket to a C- or a D. I had this stupid idea that a high GPA mattered above anything, and mine wasn’t stellar, but only okay in the end. It was above a 3.0 and it actually did matter as my first Federal job hired me as a GS 07 as I had above a 3.0 whereas if I didn’t I would have started as a GS 05. It would have been better, in the end, to have mediocre grades in something really high paying rather than above a 3.0 and receive, at best, mediocre pay due to limited demand for my skill set.

 

[PatrickW]

Retired IT here, with a BS in Engineering Physics (along with a long list of industry certifications).

Lot of people in my profession didn’t have degrees, and did just as well as the ones who did have degrees. Industry certifications were as important - if not more so - than a degree.

The one edge that the degree gave me was that in times of workforce reductions the people without degrees were laid off first.

I recall a “career advisor” telling me (during my final semester of my senior year) that “you don’t go to college to get a job. You go to college to get an education”.

 

[Koolau]

I recall a “career advisor” telling me (during my final semester of my senior year) that “you don’t go to college to get a job. You go to college to get an education”.

At my Megacorp the reverse was true. You got the degree to get the j*b. The education was sometimes valuable, but the "ticket to to a j*b" was the main thing. Of course, I didn't realize that until I'd gotten my "education." YMMV

 

[Cerys]

We owned a janitorial company for 21 years. We did really well. I can say the days of the mom and Pop janitorial company might be coming to an end. But I’m retired and I don’t care anymore.

We both had college education, but in reality what it takes to run a business is someone who is interested in building it, has a basic understanding of how it works, and somebody who is really good at paperwork and fiddly little details. I just described my husband who was good at the work part and me who was good at the fiddly detail part.

Do I regret getting an education — no. I learned so much about research, because the thing I was interested in, in advertising which I majored in, was actually running up the numbers to figure out the reach and where to place ads and it’s really boring and I never did it so…

But I do genealogy, I can research the heck out of anything. Or anyone. Except my sixth great grandmother who I can’t find but it is the 1700s…

 

[Rustic23]

You can't be an officer in the Air Force without a college degree. In my pilot training class everyone had a degree, we had two previous enlisted guys that got their degree in the air force. I didn't make any different what the degree was. One guy had a degree in music. You really don't need a degree to fly an airplane.

I encouraged my grand kids to get a degree. However if they chose the trade route I told them to still pursue a degree. The time will come when your enployer is looking for a manager, all things being equal the employee with the degree will make it into management and thus a higher paycheck sooner.

 

[Gumby]

You can't be an officer in the Air Force without a college degree. In my pilot training class everyone had a degree, we had two previous enlisted guys that got their degree in the air force. I didn't make any different what the degree was. One guy had a degree in music. You really don't need a degree to fly an airplane.

I encouraged my grand kids to get a degree. However if they chose the trade route I told them to still pursue a degree. The time will come when your enployer is looking for a manager, all things being equal the employee with the degree will make it into management and thus a higher paycheck sooner.

Good observation. College is often more of a gating mechanism than a training mechanism.

 

[Dee]

You're not Mike Rowe, are you? I agree that college has priced itself out of reality for many jobs. To FIRE, develop a pre-existing aptitude into a skill few others have. Then find work in an area where demand is high. Few teens are sufficiently motivated to do that on their own, hence they need encouragement, and that can happen at trade schools or college.

Valuable reference material at libraries: Bureau of Labor publishes their research gathered from our country's largest employers (kept in library reference sections, not for check-out). Covers all job types.

It forecasts categories and job demand by individual titles for upcoming decade. For instance, category 'Information Technology', title 'Business Systems Analyst', forecasts how many jobs, income ranges, required education, etc. Very useful if your looking for jobs with strong demand into the future and good income potential. Place yourself in the path of long-term growth. Artificial Intelligence is presently the go-to job growth area, but for those who aren't into technology, plenty of other fields covered in this publication. It's what I used to select a career, which lived up to the forecasts.

Watch out for 'dreamers'. A close friend of mine encouraged his 17 yr old son to "follow your passion" in selecting a career and related study requirements. His passion was in archaeology, his four year degree is in a remote area of archaeology, something called 'Ancient Archaeology'. Before college, he spent 2 years in the army. After that, 4 years in college. Now in his early 30s, his career is mowing grass at the local golf course, because he can't find a job in his field. Passion is one thing hobbies are very good for, but often not the best way to select a career. I have another friend whose son earned a master's degree in 'Creative Writing'.....hmm, I fear he will experience a difficult path for same reasons. Sure, there are people who do well in that field, but 'how many' and 'how much earning power' are the questions.

 

[SnowballCamper]

Valuable reference material at libraries: Bureau of Labor publishes their research gathered from our country's largest employers (kept in library reference sections, not for check-out). Covers all job types.

It forecasts categories and job demand by individual titles for upcoming decade. For instance, category 'Information Technology', title 'Business Systems Analyst', forecasts how many jobs, income ranges, required education, etc. Very useful if your looking for jobs with strong demand into the future and good income potential. Place yourself in the path of long-term growth. Artificial Intelligence is presently the go-to job growth area, but for those who aren't into technology, plenty of other fields covered in this publication. It's what I used to select a career, which lived up to the forecasts.

Watch out for 'dreamers'. A close friend of mine encouraged his 17 yr old son to "follow your passion" in selecting a career and related study requirements. His passion was in archaeology, his four year degree is in a remote area of archaeology, something called 'Ancient Archaeology'. Before college, he spent 2 years in the army. After that, 4 years in college. Now in his early 30s, his career is mowing grass at the local golf course, because he can't find a job in his field. Passion is one thing hobbies are very good for, but often not the best way to select a career. I have another friend whose son earned a master's degree in 'Creative Writing'.....hmm, I fear he will experience a difficult path for same reasons. Sure, there are people who do well in that field, but 'how many' and 'how much earning power' are the questions.

Exactly! Find something that you're good at, pays well, and you can tolerate for long periods of time. Passions are for hobbies, and if it turns out you can make a comfortable living with your hobby, you are indeed lucky...even wealthy.

 

[imjustawarrior]

you can tolerate for long periods of time

That can be really hard to figure out when one is 18.

 

[thod]

I have always understood that there were court cases back in the 70/80's where employers were being sued for discrimination if they used a 'test' or 'examination' during the employment process to screen candidates.

To avoid this, they started requiring college degrees for jobs that really did not require a degree. The degree just became a proxy to prove someone had a certain minimum skill or knowledge set. So that meant alot more jobs required degrees than before.

The problem is the college's then dumbed down the degrees to meet the increased demand. They did not want high drop out rates either.

So with the exception of technical, medical, etc degrees, a bachelors often does not mean that much anymore.

 

[38Chevy454]

I made it through lower division engineering chemistry with a C-. That grade was a gift and I was happy it wasn’t any lower!

Be very thankful you didn't have to take physical chemistry. That course was much harder than basic chemistry. P-chem is also harder than organic chem. P-chem is much more abstract.

 

[SnowballCamper]

That can be really hard to figure out when one is 18.

Absolutely! Life isn't easy. Be Flexible. So it's way more important to think about career choice as opposed to which college to attend.

 

[MrBojangles]

That can be really hard to figure out when one is 18.

Right! Totally agree!

My hat is off to those at age 18 who figure out the future is in engineering or business or something marketable. I didn’t figure that out.

I reasoned just get any degree, most never use their degrees anyway, and just use that to get a high paying corporate job. It wasn’t that easy…at least for me.

Now, I’ve worked very hard and there are no perks, neither was the case for my parents and grandparents, so I shouldn’t have expected otherwise, but who are all these folks attending the Masters, the Kentucky Derby, the Superbowl, all on the corporate dime? That’s the job I wanted! I’m guessing now that I’m older, they are not corporate perks, but successful business owners. And that, in itself, is amazing, as it’s tough to succeed as a business owner to begin with, and, if I was, I’m way, way, way too cheap to afford all of that.

My approach at age 18 was to get a degree, and, to paraphrase JFK, it’s not what you can do for your company, it’s what your company can do for you.

Let’s just say I was in for a rude awakening once I had that newly minted degree in hand.

 

[FlaGator]

Exactly! Find something that you're good at, pays well, and you can tolerate for long periods of time. Passions are for hobbies, and if it turns out you can make a comfortable living with your hobby, you are indeed lucky...even wealthy.

The corollary I have told my kids (now early 20's) is if you find the thing you enjoy, do better than most, and is in a field that rewards performance, you can make a "good enough" living. The next decade will tell if that was good advice.....

 

[TickTock]

I've long said that graduating from a good college with an engineering degree proves three things, (1) you can stick with doing something difficult for multiple years and achieve it, (2) you know the math that underlies all of the disciplines [that one blew my mind for a while; I walked around kind of wild-eyed for a few months], and (3) you've learned how to learn. Nothing more. And also nothing less.

I got my PE license for three reasons, (1) I wanted to prove to myself that I could, (2) to differentiate my resume in case employment times got difficult, and (3) to be able to reply to someone pulling the "Well, *I* have a PE so I know what I'm talking about" with "Yeah, me too, so I'm not impressed."

I actually did end up briefly in a j*b that required a PE. But that's a story for another day.

 

[Koolau]

Good observation. College is often more of a gating mechanism than a training mechanism.

Very true.

I recall Megacorp "undoing" most of the stuff I learned in University and telling me "Here we do it 'OUR' way. You can forget what you learned at State University." BUT without the degree you were gonna be a technician for life.

 

[Crewer]

If you see what's coming out of alot of high schools you understand why we need a gating mechanism. At least that's what I get out of talking to MY DIL who teaches high school math. I know not all HS grads have checked out onto social media but apparently some have and others think they are owed good grades without working or can look everything up on the internet (AI may make that possible but it ain't there yet). Who wants to hire those kids?

Yeah, I needed a college degree. In fact went on for a PhD in Physical Chem. Had wonderful jobs that I loved with the bonus that I made good money and along the way met DH who did the same thing. Also college grads live longer, have more stable marriages, etc. Until there is a replacement of some sort it's what we've got.