Is your life expectancy very different from that of your spouse/partner?

[jollystomper]

Data from the U.S. Census bureau estimates there are about 2.7 million widowers and 9.3 million widows aged 65 and older in the U.S. So I go by these odds with the assumption that DW - who is about a year older than me - will outlive me. Our estate planning takes that into account.

From my family history, Dad, an only child, died at 72. I have 2 older brothers who so far have outlived Dad's age (turning 76 and 75 later this year) with no real chronic health issues to slow them down, so I may live beyond my Dad's age. Mom lived to 86 and was very active until her last 18 months. Of her 5 siblings one died young in an accident, but the rest lived into their mid 80s and higher. I have an uncle and two aunts in their 90s who are still mentally well and active.

DW parents families are a contrast - her dad was one of six, one (the oldest, female) lived to 92 but all the others died in their 60s and 70s - her father died at 70. Several of them - not her Dad - dealt with dementia in their last years. Her mother is still alive at 93, still mentally the same but physically limited. She is one of nine, one brother - the oldest - is still alive at 101 (mentally there but deaf and in assisted living). Only one of the others died younger than age 85, at 60 - due to an asthma attack that had he been in the U.S. could have easily been addressed. Three of the others were healthy in their 80s but died in accidents. So who knows which side she may take after. No dementia among the lot.

Overall, we can look at the odds, but we just don't know. The best retirement planning in this area is to take care of our health so that we can do what we want as much as possible, to build those fond memories that we may want to look back on when we can no longer do them .

 

[athena53]

The main factor for us is not any significant difference in parental lifespan but the fact that I'm 16 years older than my husband.

Yeah, that was my case, too. Second DH was 15 years older so I pretty much knew I'd outlive him, and I did. It was a good run, though, and a lesson in not postponing dreams till "someday" or till I retired. We did a lot of travel before his health issues put and end to it. I was always the financial control freak, although we shared similar financial priorities, so my planning and our estate documents assumed I'd outlive him (with appropriate provisions if I went first). I also learned that old age got expensive- he was the first of us to get a dental implant, he did less DIY repairs around the house and I always made sure that when we traveled we stayed in places roomy enough that he could relax after a day of sightseeing while I explored more, and close enough to attractions and public transportation that he didn't get worn out before we even started. I'm inching closer to that now!

 

[RetiredHappy]

No fear! Husband is 14 years my senior and we "expect" that I will outlive him by another 15 to 20 years. It does not bother either of us one bit. I manage our finances so nothing will fall through the cracks if he does go before me. My father lived well into his 90s and my mother's life was cut short (not due to illness) and my husband's parents died in their mid 80s. Touch wood, there has not been any cancer on my side of the family.

 

[Diogenes]

...Not in my nature to be alone, but not currently willing to commit to another relationship and the possibility of being left alone again. Especially at this point in my life when the opportunities for finding someone I'm willing to "get to the end with" are reduced if a third attempt goes south. Right now, it's easier to be alone and stay that way. I now understand why my MIL never remarried after being widowed in the mid-1970's at age 50 (and she lived for another 35 years).

The "opportunities for finding someone" tend to contract already in middle-age, so that those who lost partners even before the FIRE stage (whether to divorce, death, or whatever else), might be wise, if planning for many solitary decades.

As for the financial side of retirement-planning, I was always baffled by the 4% rule or 30-year horizon. Who wants to witness their portfolios decline, as they age? I don't mean fluctuations from volatility or "lost decades" in the stock market, but deliberate spending-down. This is why I think of perpetuity... not mine, of course, but my portfolio's. Even without any heirs, the planning-objective is to have more money on the day that I die, than on the day that I retire.

 

[SecretlyFI]

^^ I want to witness my portfolio declining as I age and spend part of it down, because that will mean all the saving for all those decades is now doing it's job and providing me with wonderful retirement experiences. If it was meant to all be there when I'm dead and gone then I never should have saved it all in the first place.

 

[aja8888]

^^ I want to witness my portfolio declining as I age and spend part of it down, because that will mean all the saving for all those decades is now doing it's job and providing me with wonderful retirement experiences. If it was meant to all be there when I'm dead and gone then I never should have saved it all in the first place.

I like this! ^^^^

 

[Scuba]

We initially modeled our retirement finances assuming we would both live to age 95. We are 18 months apart in age. Unfortunately now that DH has had some major health issues, we have adjusted our plans and started taking his Social Security recently, at his age 66, rather than waiting until 70 when planned. Other than that, his health issues have reminded us that we have a finite amount of time to travel and pursue “bucket list” experiences. We are prioritizing those and we may both give up SCUBA diving due to his cardiac health issues, depending on how his tests come out in the next couple of months. That will be sad for both of us as we’ve enjoyed diving together for so many years, but the risk may not be worth it at this point.

 

[big-papa]

My Dad passed at 91 and Mom at 77 (They were significantly different in age and Dad passed a little more than a year before Mom)
Wife's Dad passed at 88 and her Mom at 82 and they were similar in age.

My Dad's sister passed at 92 (just a week after my Dad) and he had a brother that passed at 94
Wife's paternal grandparents both made it to mid 90's
My maternal great grandmother made it to mid 90's

Our retirement planning is for mid 90's for both of us. Will begin to adjust depending on health in our 80's..

Cheers.

 

[skyking1]

I m 4 years older and my wife would survive me by 6 years according to the calculator.

 

[sdawson]

Going from family history. Yep, My dad died 25 years ago (heart disease), my mom is still going. My wife's mother and grandmother outlive their husbands as well. Her mom is 81 and doing fine. Her grandma lived to her 90s. On my side of the family, Dad passed at 63, his dad in his 60s.

So yep, I expect my wife to live at least 20 years longer than me.

So when planning for retirement, I have to ensure she will be OK after I'm gone. I have two spreadsheets -- one for while I'm alive and the other for after I pass. Things like Federal taxes and IRMAA will really take a bit out of her income when I'm gone. For that reason primarily I expect to do Roth conversions from my 403B in between my retirement and collecting social security. I also am making sure the fixed income streams (annuity and a pension) are good for both of our lifes.

For SS I'm taking it at FRA (67) and encouraging her to not take it early either (she will be collecting primarily from the beneits as my spouse), so we have the spreadsheets with those numbers showing what hers would be at 64, 65, 67, 67, etc.

Still working on that with her, as she says "all of her family and friends" start SS at 63. I have to really work on showing her why she should wait. While I'm alive, she will be fine (and she will when I'm gone as well), but I'd really like her SS income to be larger after I'm gone, so hoping I can convincer her to wait.

Long answer to the question.

 

[ncbill]

I look just like Dad & all the male relatives on his side of the family were dead by their early 70s.

Though Dad managed an extra decade with a decent quality of life until his final year.

Mom died in her early 60s after a long battle with a rarer form of dementia that hits as early as your 40s.

She spent roughly the last decade of her life bedridden, completely unresponsive.

OTOH, my in-laws are in their mid-80s & I wouldn't be surprised to see both make it to their 90s.

Wife looks just like her grandmother who lived until her mid-90s.

Most of her older relatives live to their late 80s-early 90s as well.

So although she is slightly older I expect to be gone at least a decade before her.

After watching what happened with my Mom I hope my inevitable demise is a whole lot quicker.

 

[2017ish]

I am 2 years older than the young wife, and I assume she will survive me by many years - her mother is currently 90 and her grandmothers lived into their 90s. That assumption has played a major role in my retirement planning. Among other things, I am working to simplify and automate our portfolio so it will be easier for her. She does not lack ability, but she really has no interest in finances or investing. ...

This describes us, although I'm only a year older. DW, who made the bulk of our money, hits all the longevity keynotes (family history, education, physical activity, healthy habits, income, sex, etc.), while I am basically an unknown on family history (WAY too much tobacco and alcohol noise among my 3 known male ancestors to give much weight to their relatively early deaths). So our "planning" for retirement posited her at 105, and me as indeterminate/mid-80s. Haven't seen any reason to change that, as her mom continues to thrive at 93, and my mom is struggling with increasing dementia at 84....

Just in case, we'll both take whatever Social we end up getting at ages 70.

 

[Aerides]

My parents died at the ages of 90 and 98 while DW's died at 65 and 76. While nothing is determined, this does make me fear the prospect of potentially living many years in her absence. Are others here in a similar situation and, if so, how has it affected your retirement planning?

But do you know what the causes were? Behavior or bad luck?

DH's Mom died in her 60's but she had been a lifelong smoker, and spent her last 10 years fighting various cancers. His Dad just turned 80 and is fit and active.

 

[sengsational]

The statistics are one thing, but we are all one diagnosis away from an earlier predicted "plan sunset'. But statistics are all we've got. I bet you could put your medical conditions and family history into "some calculator" and get a pretty good estimate, or at least another likely data point. I'm afraid to do that for myself, LOL!

 

[Taco]

Who wants to witness their portfolios decline, as they age?

I do.

Your financial situation may be better than most, but I think for many the difference between continually growing their portfolio and actually using their portfolio would mean limiting lifestyle (travel, home improvement, gifting, etc.).

I don't see any point in not doing things that I can do, just to run up the score financially.

Even without any heirs, the planning-objective is to have more money on the day that I die, than on the day that I retire.

Why? What is the advantage to dying with $3 million rather than $2 million?

 

[Aerides]

As for the financial side of retirement-planning, I was always baffled by the 4% rule or 30-year horizon. Who wants to witness their portfolios decline, as they age? I don't mean fluctuations from volatility or "lost decades" in the stock market, but deliberate spending-down.

If I am sitting on anything close to my current portfolio, when I'm 90+, I will be quite annoyed at having not spent more earlier.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I think I don't like to see my portfolio go down either. We spend like there is no tomorrow and our portfolio continues to grow.

My good friend whom I have had for 35 years is still working even though he does not need to work anymore. He is a very high achiever, makes beaucoup bucks (almost a million a year) and finds that he is unwilling to give it up. He plans to work until 67 and he thinks that he will ask to drop to part time and we all told him to give it up and enjoy life. Single, no kids and no ex-wife. He does vacation extensively and in style. I guess he does enjoy his work so much that he wants to keep working. His parents are still around and in their 90s.

 

[Koolau]

The statistics are one thing, but we are all one diagnosis away from an earlier predicted "plan sunset'. But statistics are all we've got. I bet you could put your medical conditions and family history into "some calculator" and get a pretty good estimate, or at least another likely data point. I'm afraid to do that for myself, LOL!

Heh, heh, and then there are those pesky buses and F150s that seem to come out of nowhere.

If the gators don't getcha the skeeters will. None of us gets outa here alive!

 

[equakesfan]

I'm 53 and my wife is 4 years younger and are both recently retired. I have already outlived my parents and my wife's parents (doing well). I expect to die well before she does.

Here's how we have handled the difference in out life expectancy
I will take SS at 62, my wife will take SS at 70
We will do 72T distributions and/or Roth conversions while I am still alive to minimize tax for her while she is alone
I will teach my wife and kids to be financially literate so they are prepared after I go
I want to develop a relationship between my wife and a fee for service CFP so she has someone to ask questions about money

 

[RetiredHappy]

I'm 53 and my wife is 4 years younger and are both recently retired. I have already outlived my parents and my wife's parents (doing well). I expect to die well before she does.

Here's how we have handled the difference in out life expectancy
I will take SS at 62, my wife will take SS at 70
We will do 72T distributions and/or Roth conversions while I am still alive to minimize tax for her while she is alone
I will teach my wife and kids to be financially literate so they are prepared after I go
I want to develop a relationship between my wife and a fee for service CFP so she has someone to ask questions about money

Who has higher SS PIA?

 

[Niuatoputapu]

For planning purposes, I will die at age 90 and DW at 92. She is two years older than me, so that limits the time as a surviving spouse. Here is a potential problem, DW made me promise she could die first. That's fine if it happens naturally, but what do I do if I see that bus about to crash into me?

 

[Cerys]

I’m not playing fair, as I’m a widow. But I expected him to live till his 80’s like his parents, and I expected to outlive him by a few years.

Weird thing — he started saying at every birthday he wasn’t going to see 60. He was 59 1/2… glioblastoma.

 

[23isme]

I believe the research shows that environment is substantially more important for longevity than genes. I recall seeing genes responsibly for something like 10 to 25 percent of longevity, the rest behavior, access to health care, etc. I would assume then that the longevity in a couple depends more on each other than who their ancestors were.

 

[OmegaDog]

"Your Grandma may be old, but that doesn’t mean you will be, researchers say"

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/06/health/genetics-longevity-study/index.html#:~:text=With%20mathematical%20and%20statistical%20calculations,relations%20of%20the%20opposite%20gender.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

I'm 9 years younger than my husband and in great health. He has a lot of bad habits and some health issues. I suspect I'll outlive him by quite a few years, but who knows. He jokes that he'll only outlive me if i get hit by a bus. We planned for both of us living to 90+, but are spending less than we planned, so it'll be fine even if we outlive my projections. I'll definitely downsize the house and "stuff" if he goes before I do.