Kids living at home

[SnowballCamper]

My brother had an apartment for a while, but moved back home in his early 20s, and has essentially lived at home ever since. My dad moved out of the house some time after my mom passed, but my brother still lives there. DM died almost thirty years ago, and DF remarried. There's no easy way to summarize the situation, but I'll say that medicating young boys for ADHD and expecting them to get off the meds and become "normal" around the age of 18-21 is a pipe dream IMHO. My brother is married with a couple kids now, living in the house (a double wide trailer on a foundation) that we grew up in. The story gets more interesting with the recent episode.

As the oldest of the 2+2=4 total kids, I was living my own life across the country when my dad remarried. Turns out that it was a fairly modern arrangement financially because my stepmom (DSM) wanted to keep some money private. I didn't know this at the time, and that's fine. DSM was about a decade younger than DF, and I figured she would outlive him. DF saw his father loose a substantial savings to medical care for my grandmother and as a result He and DSM made an irrevocable trust to protect their assets, including the house my brother lives in.
So recently, DSM passed rather suddenly. It turns out that DSMs kids believe there are more accounts than can be found. There are scraps of paper and notes, but no regular statements have been found yet. I have read the trust document, and all assets were to be turned over to the trust. The follow up seemed not to happen with most accounts, they aren't titled in the trust name. I realize this might not be appropriate for all accounts...but the result is pretty messy.
It turns out also, that DF qualifies for substantial medical benefits from the VA. I know he wasn't using VA healthcare for at least the first ten years of his second marriage or when the trust was made. This is all to say that even the best laid plans go wonky.

• DF protected assets with a trust when that protection likely isn't needed.
• DSM's desire to keep her assets private means that her son & daughter don't know where they are.

On another note, now that the family is talking about these things, I have offered to open a 529 account for my biological niece and nephew, and do most or all of the funding myself. I haven't pushed enough to get a hard "No" yet, but they're just not interested. I have highlighted the uses beyond traditional college...It's pretty baffling to me.

Also, parents need to stop telling their kids that houses are too expensive, rent is too high, everything costs too much, blah blah blah. This discourages them from even bothering to better themselves. What they hear is, what's the point, I'll never own anything. Parents are part of the problem. That's obvious.

The messaging kids (and adults) get is important... On the other hand I have read General Douglas MacArthur's biography, American Ceasar by William Manchester. Did you know that his mother rented an apartment just outside the Military Academy grounds for the entire time he was a cadet? After his first two years of service he was appointed to be his father's aide-de-camp, essentially moving back home (but with a job to serve his father).

Life is messy, tropes about sociological phenomena miss too much of the messy stuff.

 

[Time2]

Our son went away to college, did well, then floundered, quit school, worked more, then decided to get it right, went back to school and graduated at 25. He got engaged, covid hit, they were separated by a boarder, He came home as a last good by before, going to live in Canada, During that extended stay is when the engagement broke. So, now he lived with us, it was a great time, I got to share a lot of projects with him that I didn't do when he was 14 thru 17 when he was playing video games or out with friends. I'm happy we had almost 4 years of that time together. He moved out when he was 29, he's now 31, has about $300k in his portfolio, saving 30% of his income. He has had a girlfriend for a year. I heard him say the marriage word the other day, it was "if we"

 

[isisdave]

Please look at some real estate listings. Try Redfin or Realtor.com. Find a house, any house, that is not a dump and can be bought on a $65K salary. I'll wait while you find it...

Here's one near me. New construction, small starter house (they still build those in Indiana), $212k, $1259/month including taxes and insurance. This is in fact only about $300 more than renting.

There are older homes for less, and smaller, older homes for much less. Most have been rehabbed and have modern kitchens, etc. If you're handy and willing to do the work, and to live in a small town, there are even cheaper ones.

Princeton is 25 minutes north of Evansville, and the big employer is Toyota and several other companies that support Toyota. If you can exhale warm air and pass a drug screen, you can start tomorrow for $23.50/hr. If you show up for six months, you'll be making a lot more.

It's not Chicago, it's not even Indy, and lots of folks are just fine with that. There is good healthcare, and nearby entertainment, and lots of restaurants. If you like the outdoors, maybe fishing and hunting and camping, there are a lot of affordable places to live in the midwest. Send your kids to have a look.

 

[Time2]

My first home 3bd 1bth was $33,000, my first car was $200. The house adjusted for inflation is $278,000, Redfin says it is worth $191k, doesn't seem to have kept up with inflation. The car after inflation is $1,700.

 

[ferbm]

This is a super interesting thread! Our two kids are in college, one Jr and one Fr. They are good kids for the most part and while we have really pushed on them to anticipate independence once they are done, I know deep down inside that if they needed to come back while they plan their next step, we would welcome them with open arms. Not the point of this thread, but I have day-dreamed about a nice plot of land to build a family compound! LOL! Small private living quarters adjacent to a family gathering entertainment hub.

A friend of mine says that your kids aren't really independent until they are off your cellphone bill!!! So... FWIW, this is all a discussion about your personal comfort with a gradient of support.

 

[Time2]

A friend of mine says that your kids aren't really independent until they are off your cellphone bill!!! So... FWIW, this is all a discussion about your personal comfort with a gradient of support.

My kids were off our cellphone plans many years ago, in fact we were on my daughters plan for a while, but we paid her. My son was on her plan and recently got his own plan because he found a cheaper one and (also, he thinks she was charging him about $15 more than she had to pay). Anyway, now her plan costs more than it did when he was on the plan. Must have got some family discount for 4 phones is all I can figure.

 

[ncbill]

The biggest thing in my mind is that both parents are in agreement with the kids being home. I'm reminded of my friend with 2 at home (one was about 28 with a retail job paid for his own car and toys but no rent, other was 24 no job no transportation and no goals). Neither helped with any chores even when said friend got cancer he was the one out mowing the yard. His wife thought it fine - he did not. He passed so I assume the kids are still with mom if she could even afford the house (doubtful, never worked, wasn't into budgets and he didn't leave her with more than a small pension). But it caused the parents a lot of strife even though neither kid was "bad".

Add siblings to that.

My college roommate had a younger brother but would never utter his name.

To this day I don't know it.

Brother never moved out of mom's house & never worked.

At the latest reunion my old roommate told me she had died & roomie was handling her estate.

I asked what would happen to his brother & his response boiled down to "don't know, don't care."

 

[Texas Proud]

Yes, if someone aged 18-29 makes about $90K to $100K they could buy this house. Remember though, the average income of people in this age group was said to be $65K so that 24 year old living in the basement of his parent's house could not buy the house you are showing. Now add in student debt and he really can't afford it.

BUT, that 24 YO is not and has not been one to buy a home... even going back years... they should be renting an apartment... either by themselves or with a roommate...

Here is the medium age for buying a first house... BTW, the medium age for getting married and having kids have been going up also from what I remember...

• 1980s: ~28–29 years old
• 1990: 30 years old
• 2000: 31 years old
• 2010: 32 years old
• 2020: 33 years old
• 2022: 36 years old
• 2024: 38 years old
• 2025: 40 years old

 

[Texas Proud]

My kids were off our cellphone plans many years ago, in fact we were on my daughters plan for a while, but we paid her. My son was on her plan and recently got his own plan because he found a cheaper one and (also, he thinks she was charging him about $15 more than she had to pay). Anyway, now her plan costs more than it did when he was on the plan. Must have got some family discount for 4 phones is all I can figure.

Just saying... US Mobile is cheap... and you can choose which network you want to be on so there is nothing preventing moving...

 

[Time2]

Just saying... US Mobile is cheap... and you can choose which network you want to be on so there is nothing preventing moving...

I'm very happy with The AT&T $300 a year plan, that I got after a hurricane knocked out all the other systems. I lost Verizon for 3 months, my wife had Republic Wireless that at the time used AT&T towers. Her phone worked, mine didn't, I got the AT&T $300 plan and then later switched my wife over. As to my kids, not worth me trying to change who they use. They have what they want.

 

[folivier]

DW and I have the ATT $300 prepaid plan also. Surprisingly it worked great while in Mexico recently.

 

[Texas Proud]

Probably should go to another thread but the US Mobile plan works great also.. we were recently in Argentina and she got a GB of data and a small amount of phone/text. It was enough for her.. you can choose the AT&T network..

 

[rodi]

Back to the original topic.

Younger son graduated in June 25 and lives at home. He realized his finance degree wasn't going to get him far with AI job cuts on entry level jobs. He pivoted. He's full time at the Fire Academy and hopes to start working for the local FD or CalFire starting in June. He's 23. I expect help be out if the house in a year. We are not charging rent while he's doing the 60 hour/week at the academy. Rent (low) will kick in 1 month after he graduates to encourage employment.

Older son has a 'non linear' path to college but it's graduating with a math degree this June. His plan is to move home, study and take the P actuary exam in September, meanwhile apply for jobs. He has asked if he can live with us for a few years ago he can save for a down payment. We will give him the first 2 months free (like his brother,) then reevaluate. We've agreed to 2 years living with us and will see how it goes.

Both boys are good about chores

My sister just sent me an article from the Atlantic taking about gen z and their paranoia about money, frugality, etc.

It *is* different today. Even ambitious, hard working, kids may need to move home for financial reasons.

.

 

[tulak]

The kids are alright. I’m actually quite impressed.

And you should be able to afford to live where you grew up. It’s sad to live in a society where you have to move away from friends and family in order to live.

 

[wrigley]

I was on my own since 18...so you know my opinion on the matter. I know many (too many) kids, lazy kids/clueless kids/dependent kids, that were inspired by good meaningful parents but parents failed to see the ramifications of clipping the wings and never allowing the kids to grow up/be independent. Always a friend but never a parent. Lyrics says it all...'honey I live with it for the rest of my life' . That's sad. Assisting a child in overcoming a life obstacle/set back is a different story with positive merit. But dragging the event out does no one any good. My friend once said "why buy a cow when you can get your milk for free". Many lazy kids embrace that approach.

I was also on my own since I was 18.........but I really wasn't on my own. If I needed my parents, I knew they were always there to help. We were built differently than the younger generations today!

 

[Route246]

Life has been a bit too cushy for some, in my opinion.

Reminds me of friends we knew who could not get their teen to get a job.

"Where does he get spending money?", I asked.

"He comes to me and I give it to him," the dad replied.

Not sure if learning took place then but unfortunately the root of problems is often parents, not kids.

It is tough to build resilience into kids in their 20s when parents protected them through their lives to that point.

But it is not impossible.

Disclaimer: This may be hard to read for some people. It is purely my grumpy old man opinion. Please treat it as my opinion only and not some sort or clinical diagnosis.

Baby boomers (my generation) have sadly contributed to the alarming number of entitled designer children, bought and paid for, never faced real adversity in their short lives and were always reassured that parents would supply them with resources and bail them out of trouble. Let's not speak for ourselves but we all have seen it: the entitlement, lack of ambition, countless psych meds, ADHD, self-pity, depression, threats of suicide exhibited by otherwise perfectly normal children who are now adults. Assuming no disabilities and no trauma or abuse, etc., I tend to incriminate the parents who created these underachieving adults.

It starts with little league teams that don't keep score and everyone gets a trophy. When I played baseball there was no such politically correct everyone wins mentality. I was a pitcher and blew a game and felt the pain, suffering and self-doubt in my failure to my team. My father watched and grimaced but did not tell me things would be OK, he left that for me to figure out. Later in the season I got a walk-off hit that won us the league championship. This all happened at age 10. This season sticks with me today and I believe it had a lot to do with my lack of entitlement as an adult. When I got home after I blew the game my mom asked how things went. I just looked sad, she looked at my dad and he motioned to her to back off. I went to my room and chilled. I wasn't sad, I was more like annoyed and tried to figure out how to get better. These things build character in my opinion. My case is probably not unique. Young aspiring athletes learn from the agony of defeat. That sort of suffering is a good thing and too many baby boomer parents.

Again, all my own opinion but I have seen too much of this with my baby boomer friends and family children. Not all designer children end up this way, far from it. But, the vulnerable can fall into the entitlement trap and it is difficult to figure this out.

But, on a very positive note, an entitled child (let's call him Mike) I know in his 30s is quite aware of this. His brother is a basket case and his mother continues to enables his entitlement. They were different as children but Mike told me as a new father of two children that his kids will have no such entitlement and his wife is on board. His wife grew up in a broken home and earned everything she has and is quite well grounded. Mike, on the other hand grew up entitled, never faced adversity, got into trouble in college but somehow managed to survive that after much pain and suffering and grew into a successful member of society. We chat frequently and he is aware of my success investing in SPY for decades and he knows we are FI in retirement.

-Grumpy old man, out.

 

[YetiXing]

We have been blessed with two boys that worked hard, pursued summer internships while in college and both had jobs before graduation day in engineering.

If they were living local after graduation and needed assistance to help save up..they would be welcome and we are always here to assist in any way they need.

But both landed jobs about 1.5 hours away w large companies. So were required to move.

We are logistically in the middle of the two of them. So I guess we aren’t going anywhere.

What I can say is that the friends of theirs from college, also in engineering, that chose to take summers off and hang out at home ….are still living at home and looking for work sadly.

Best things we did for our kids was work in high school(summers) and required them to pursue summer internships!!! It was difficult and quite stressful at times …but it helped them find a good job. And the experience prepared them to launch after graduation

 

[pb4uski]

My parents would have let me starve to death rather than move back in with them . . . and I'm not joking. I moved with some strangers at 21 when I fell on hard times in my job. It was fine. (And if you wonder, no I was not on drugs in fact graduated early with honors and was gainfully employed in a "real job"). Just how they were.

Let me put it another way... I would have willingly starved rather than moved back in with my parents. Not that my parents were bad, but because if I were living with them then I would have to live under "their house, their rules" and I wouldn't want to do that.

But why shouldn't it be that way? The expectation should be that parents raise you to adulthood at 18 (or later if you are attending college) and after that you are expected to be self sufficient. We coddle our kids too much today.

 

[Sanbenito1]

If not obese, do not have a record, or serial drug user...I recommend going into the service. Serve your country, get into a technical field (gain knowledge and experience), grow up, and have Adventure along the way. That's what I did and it was the best move I ever made.

Same. If they can score high enough, I’d recommend a job such as the Navy Seabees (Construction Battalion) where they can learn a trade (carpenter, plumber, electrician, etc) and be ready to work when they get out. Too many of the boys I know want to shoot and be macho and end up in the Infantry although I did manage to divert one to being a helicopter mechanic in the Navy, and another into paralegal in the USMC.

 

[Sanbenito1]

I left home with grandma the night I graduated high school, at 17. I swear my (wonderful) parents starting kissing, smooching and generally acting weird just before graduation to make sure I would never return - it worked!

 

[Sorcerer]

Not that my parents were bad, but because if I were living with them then I would have to live under "their house, their rules" and I wouldn't want to do that.

Unfortunately, a lot of kids who still live at home do not want responsibility. That, and they're not capable of making decisions for themselves. They rely on Mom and Dad way too much.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

That's some good bang for your buck. Was it built on a Superfund site?

Tornado Alley but sure looks good for a house built in 1967.

 

[shainker]

My wife and I have a 26 year old son living at home with us. He is a college graduate and works a full time job, 5 days a week, as a surveyor. He lived on his own during his college years and paid for his college and paid his rent by working full time, while going to college. He moved back home after college to pay off debt and save for a home down payment. His debt is paid off and his savings are accumulating. We don't have him pay rent, but he does buy his own groceries. He is a low impact house guest as he doesn't make a mess or cause a lot of noise or block our cars in the driveway. We generally enjoy having him around and when we travel, which is frequently, he takes care of the house, the yard and the pool. The arrangement is working for the three of us.

 

[PlayinwithFIRE]

I have one hitting it out of the park, and one floundering.

The one floundering had always gotten more attention from us as parents because we had to always be on him about getting the very minimum done, its likely he wouldnt have made it out of highschool without alot of back pressure.

Now in his 20s, failed out of college, living back at home, seeing his "therapist", on ADHD meds/sleeping meds and working 1 day a week. Personally, I'd drop him off at the nearest recruiter office but wife wont have it.

I have almost no relationship with him, as discussions become too heated about whats not getting done.

In a statistical sense, he got more negative attention from us because of this under-performanance. Wife and I argue about if "all the negative attention" is why he cant get it together endlessly. In my view, the negative attention started AFTER he started coming up short.

The other one, seemed to manage system expectations on his own. Doing great in college, surrounds himself with like minded people and is having a ball. His brother hates him btw heh.

I wish I had some answers but we are struggling to right the ship ourselves.

Clock is ticking on how long Ill put up with it as the conditions for moving home were
1. Keep a full time job
2. Pay $200 to cover rent/food/internet etc

He aint doing #1, and for me, thats breach of agreement. Not so for the DW...and it churns on and on..

pwf

 

[Kings over Queens]

I have one hitting it out of the park, and one floundering.

I don't have any advice, just wishing you, your wife and your son grace and patience to sort this out. I give you credit for sharing your story, that was brave.