Kids living at home

[Sorcerer]

I have one hitting it out of the park, and one floundering.

The one floundering had always gotten more attention from us as parents because we had to always be on him about getting the very minimum done, its likely he wouldnt have made it out of highschool without alot of back pressure.

Now in his 20s, failed out of college, living back at home, seeing his "therapist", on ADHD meds/sleeping meds and working 1 day a week. Personally, I'd drop him off at the nearest recruiter office but wife wont have it.

I have almost no relationship with him, as discussions become too heated about whats not getting done.

In a statistical sense, he got more negative attention from us because of this under-performanance. Wife and I argue about if "all the negative attention" is why he cant get it together endlessly. In my view, the negative attention started AFTER he started coming up short.

The other one, seemed to manage system expectations on his own. Doing great in college, surrounds himself with like minded people and is having a ball. His brother hates him btw heh.

I wish I had some answers but we are struggling to right the ship ourselves.

Clock is ticking on how long Ill put up with it as the conditions for moving home were
1. Keep a full time job
2. Pay $200 to cover rent/food/internet etc

He aint doing #1, and for me, thats breach of agreement. Not so for the DW...and it churns on and on..

pwf

Thanks for sharing your experience. I hope things work out for everyone at the end of the day.

You could always write into the dr John delony show. He is in the dave Ramsey universe. He generally gives good advice. Doesn't seem like your typical lame a$$ therapist who coddles everyone.

 

[JohnnyPHX]

I wish I had some answers but we are struggling to right the ship ourselves.

Sorry to read about your problems. Have you considered something like family counseling for any members willing to go. Sometimes we need help navigating the ship through rough waters. The spouse and I went through a rough patch some time ago and marriage counseling was very helpful. Wishing you better times ahead.

 

[PlayinwithFIRE]

Thanks for the thoughts all, we had tried to do family counseling and it happened around the point
he was turning 18..and then he became generally unwilling to go further unless we pressed/badgered etc...

As a warning to others, be very mindful of that age 18 cutoff. We lost all insight into what meds he was taking, what was going on with his therapist, grades in college, what was going on in general without his express permission (which in our case, he generally isn't willing to share) .

The kid gets to decide what you will and won't see at that point and it becomes a black box. If you arent built to be ok with the unknown, try to get your answers before they turn 18.

pwf

 

[JohnnyPHX]

Thanks for the thoughts all, we had tried to do family counseling and it happened around the point
he was turning 18..and then he became generally unwilling to go further unless we pressed/badgered etc...

As a warning to others, be very mindful of that age 18 cutoff. We lost all insight into what meds he was taking, what was going on with his therapist, grades in college, what was going on in general without his express permission (which in our case, he generally isn't willing to share) .

The kid gets to decide what you will and won't see at that point and it becomes a black box. If you arent built to be ok with the unknown, try to get your answers before they turn 18.

pwf

That's good advice. Thanks for sharing your story.

You might consider some counseling just for you and your spouse then?

 

[athena53]

The number one and two drivers of home prices are jobs and schools. So low prices general indicate a lack of one or both.

I agree. DS and I lived in a NYC suburb (Bergen County, NJ) till we moved to KC for my job in 2003. I sold our nice little 1950s 3-BR cape house for $550,000, having bought it for $350,000 7 years before. It was well-maintained but had had zero upgrades. Realtor.com says it's now worth $966,000. There are less-desirable suburbs with older houses, so-so school systems and maybe higher crime rates but that would get you down to- what?- $600K for a starter house?

So- DS went to college in Des Moines and bought a small house out of college with $14,000 left over from money his Aunt had contributed to fund his education (I paid half and funded the other half from the UGTMA account she'd set up for him). He bought it with financing from an entity set up to stabilize neighborhoods after the Financial Crisis, for first-time buyers who would live in the house. I'm thinking it was about $125,000. In 2018 he and DDIL bought a 4 BR in a so-so school district for $200K. She home-schools the kids. This never would have been possible in NJ. I'm guessing $200K would buy you a fixer-upper in a high-crime area and anything decent would require two incomes to support- and then you have child care expenses.

I was out of the house as soon as I was done with college- my job was 5 hours away from my home town and besides, my parents were mean and wouldn't let me have sleepovers with my boyfriends. My sister was married before graduation so lived with her husband, one brother lived with parents about a year before he married and moved out, another brother also got a job far from parents, and one brother commuted an hour each way to his first job (in Ohio that was a lot) and didn't move out till Mom and Dad moved to Buffalo 2 years later. My first apartment in Cincinnati, a pleasant 1-bedroom on a bus line, was $130/month and I was making $10,000. It doubled when I moved to NJ.

I do think it's harder now, especially if kids have significant student loan debt.

 

[tulak]

It is harder now, mostly because of housing costs. DS+DGF moved back in to save for a house. They could afford to buy something, but they would be house rich and cash poor. Plus, it’d affect their plans to retire at 40 (lol).

 

[Box of Rain]

As long as you're comfortable passing judgement without any context, who am I to say? I don't know what goes on inside someone else's house, and why they make the decisions they make and unless you do, then yeah...it might just be you.

Umm, well, it's a discussion forum. We're discussing. If no one was replying and discussing, each thread would die at the first post. If you don't want to read (and hopefully, think about and consider) the thoughts and opinions of other people, why even post here, and in fact, why bother reading any posts here? All opinions of everyone about everything involve judgements. Of course they do. No need to get upset about people judging. I judge everything I hear, see, experience, eat, etc. That's how thinking people function.

 

[Box of Rain]

My brother lived at home right after college.
He was still there at 30.
He was still there at 50.
He was still there at 68 when mom died.
He's 72 now.
He's still there.

We call that a SAHS. Stay-at-home-son.

 

[Kings over Queens]

Umm, well, it's a discussion forum. We're discussing. If no one was replying and discussing, each thread would die at the first post. If you don't want to read (and hopefully, think about and consider) the thoughts and opinions of other people, why even post here, and in fact, why bother reading any posts here? All opinions of everyone about everything involve judgements. Of course they do. No need to get upset about people judging. I judge everything I hear, see, experience, eat, etc. That's how thinking people function.

Welcome to the site.

I was discussing the OP's passing of judgement without any context. The OP asked if it was him "maybe it's just me" and I agreed, and pointed out where it was in fact, him.

I'm not and wasn't upset. and to your point, that isn't how thinking people function. Imagine if a Judge only decided on one side of the story. We disagree, and that's ok.

 

[tulak]

If you read the thread, you’ll see a good mix of kids that are doing well and those that aren’t doing well. Couldn’t we say the same of any generation?

Are they different? Sure.

Are they any worse than our generation(s)? Probably not.

 

[Kings over Queens]

Older generations have been complaining about "these kids today" since there have been older generations and kids.

 

[flyingaway]

Different families have different stories. I don't see why other people should be bothered.

 

[Qs Laptop]

Different families have different stories. I don't see why other people should be bothered.

I bothered chiming in on this thread because the OP said:

Also, parents need to stop telling their kids that houses are too expensive, rent is too high, everything costs too much, blah blah blah.

I think it's true that things are too expensive for "kids" these days, especially when you factor in student loan debt. I don't think that parents are telling them that things are too expensive, I think the kids are telling their parents things are too expensive and the parents then launch into "back in my day I paid for my college, worked two part time jobs AND I was living away from home. I bought my first house when I was 24 years old."

You can see it in this thread time and time again.

Yeah, well those days are long gone.

 

[marko]

I bothered chiming in on this thread because the OP said:



I think it's true that things are too expensive for "kids" these days, especially when you factor in student loan debt. I don't think that parents are telling them that things are too expensive, I think the kids are telling their parents things are too expensive and the parents then launch into "back in my day I paid for my college, worked two part time jobs AND I was living away from home. I bought my first house when I was 24 years old."

You can see it in this thread time and time again.

Yeah, well those days are long gone.

It's the "K economy" once again.

Two separate families on DWs side. Same grandparents. One group are in their mid thirties, make really good money, own their own homes in one of the most expensive areas of the country, have kids, private school, travel etc.

The other group, again in their mid thirties, underemployed, can barely make their car payments. Priorities: video games, HBO, online gambling and meal delivery three times a day.

 

[Pointby2]

Priorities: video games, HBO, online gambling and meal delivery three times a day.

Those will keep you poor. We do meal delivery maybe a few times a month and I always feel guilty about how expensive it is.

 

[ArmchairMillionaire]

We do meal delivery maybe a few times a month and I always feel guilty about how expensive it is.

Never done meal delivery, other than maybe three times total ordering pizza from a motel room while travelling during the past 20 years.

We don't have much meal delivery available where we live. One local bar/restaurant will, but there's a fee, and it's only about a mile down the road, so the few, rare times we've gotten food from there, I've just driven down to pick it up and brought it back home.

DW & I were just discussing this, though. About how, when we both w*rked, we were either the only ones, or one of a very small number of people who brought their own lunches every day (ours were usually left-overs) and did not stop for coffees on the way in to w*rk. And how those same cow*rkers who spent $15-20 every day on fast-food and coffee were the ones who always complained that they never had any money to save.

 

[Qs Laptop]

It's the "K economy" once again.

Two separate families on DWs side. Same grandparents. One group are in their mid thirties, make really good money, own their own homes in one of the most expensive areas of the country, have kids, private school, travel etc.

The other group, again in their mid thirties, underemployed, can barely make their car payments. Priorities: video games, HBO, online gambling and meal delivery three times a day.

OK, and how does their differing lifestyles change the fact that things are more expensive and it's harder for Gen Z'ers to buy houses?

And both these families do not live in their parent's houses, right?

 

[Sorcerer]

We rented for 10 years before we purchased a home. It was a great financial move. People who say rent is throwing money away are clueless.

 

[Texas Proud]

As long as you're comfortable passing judgement without any context, who am I to say? I don't know what goes on inside someone else's house, and why they make the decisions they make and unless you do, then yeah...it might just be you.

It was my post you quoted and I am not the OP...

It seems you just did not like my response...

 

[Kings over Queens]

It might just be me but if a child is living at home (except for the cultures who encourage it) when they are over 25 I see that as a failure of the parents...

It was my post you quoted and I am not the OP...

It seems you just did not like my response...

Thanks for the clarification.

You are correct, but not so much like or dislike it. I don't agree with it. So yeah, it might just be you who believes that a "child" living at home at 25 is a failure of the parents. I don't believe that, and based on replies in the discussion, others don't as well.

We disagree, and that's ok.

 

[retbjwsjfl]

Our 29yo son got a divorce last year and moved back in with us. He has a great job and works from home. We’ve told him he can stay as long as he wants. We have plenty of space that would be going to waste otherwise and he helps out around the house. He is able to save the majority of his income and will buy a home soon. It’s more of a pragmatic thing, as he can easily afford to be out on his own. This way, his money is working for him early in life, as his expenses are very low. He’s been on his own, so it’s not like he needs to learn how to support himself. It was a decision we made as a family.

I think that is a great decision. You are giving your boy a hand-up, not a hand-out.

 

[jollystomper]

I cannot comment on others decisions in this area, unless I know the family very, very well. We have a few friends with kids over 25 still at home, some are fine and everybody is happy, others are constantly having conflicts. I just depends.

@PlayinwithFIRE's point about the 18 year cutoff is very, very important. When your kids are in college, even though you are playing the bills, the college will now share any info about them with you without the kid's permission. This very much hampered us with one son who gave us many problems there, and ended up in jail. The school would not share anything, other than wanting to come after us to pay his bills when, against our wishes when he chose to re-enroll and got into further trouble. Fortunately that was 15+ years ago, and he is now in good shape - married, great father, good job, homeowner.

In our case we are fortunate that our children want to be independent, and see that as living on their own. Living with is (as they have told us) is the case of last resort. But we are fine in they need to move in for a while for specific reasons. A couple have done this for anywhere from 1-4 months, and that has worked well. Honestly, while they were here, they were so busy we hardly saw them.

We are also very fortunate that none are addicted to anything. While it can be hard to tell just from our own observation, based on how they are working and their friends (each has "real" friends we have know since birth who would express concerns to us) they have not fallen into anything. That can be the biggest challenge that DW and I - because our initial reactions would be different - would certainly seek counseling on how to deal with that.

 

[Joseph]

I remember the toast my mother made at my college graduation dinner. She ended it by saying, "you'll always be welcome back home anytime.........to visit."

Afterwards, I drove back to my apartment and continued unpacking.

I basically heard the same thing. Stayed at home while in Community college but got out of the house asap. My parents were great, paid no rent, no bills etc. but I became much more independent thinking as a grew older. There were times when I barely had enough cash for groceries but I would never contemplate moving back home. I just don’t see how one can spread their wings while living with parents. Too much group think, to much “this is how “ we do it” Never interested in sharing much of my personal life with them or them having opinions on mine. Had a great childhood but I rather gut it up out on my own . They also a had a good amount of cash and would give me a chunk at times but I stopped taking it because cash always has conditions.

 

[Joseph]

Disclaimer: This may be hard to read for some people. It is purely my grumpy old man opinion. Please treat it as my opinion only and not some sort or clinical diagnosis.

Baby boomers (my generation) have sadly contributed to the alarming number of entitled designer children, bought and paid for, never faced real adversity in their short lives and were always reassured that parents would supply them with resources and bail them out of trouble. Let's not speak for ourselves but we all have seen it: the entitlement, lack of ambition, countless psych meds, ADHD, self-pity, depression, threats of suicide exhibited by otherwise perfectly normal children who are now adults. Assuming no disabilities and no trauma or abuse, etc., I tend to incriminate the parents who created these underachieving adults.

It starts with little league teams that don't keep score and everyone gets a trophy. When I played baseball there was no such politically correct everyone wins mentality. I was a pitcher and blew a game and felt the pain, suffering and self-doubt in my failure to my team. My father watched and grimaced but did not tell me things would be OK, he left that for me to figure out. Later in the season I got a walk-off hit that won us the league championship. This all happened at age 10. This season sticks with me today and I believe it had a lot to do with my lack of entitlement as an adult. When I got home after I blew the game my mom asked how things went. I just looked sad, she looked at my dad and he motioned to her to back off. I went to my room and chilled. I wasn't sad, I was more like annoyed and tried to figure out how to get better. These things build character in my opinion. My case is probably not unique. Young aspiring athletes learn from the agony of defeat. That sort of suffering is a good thing and too many baby boomer parents.

Again, all my own opinion but I have seen too much of this with my baby boomer friends and family children. Not all designer children end up this way, far from it. But, the vulnerable can fall into the entitlement trap and it is difficult to figure this out.

But, on a very positive note, an entitled child (let's call him Mike) I know in his 30s is quite aware of this. His brother is a basket case and his mother continues to enables his entitlement. They were different as children but Mike told me as a new father of two children that his kids will have no such entitlement and his wife is on board. His wife grew up in a broken home and earned everything she has and is quite well grounded. Mike, on the other hand grew up entitled, never faced adversity, got into trouble in college but somehow managed to survive that after much pain and suffering and grew into a successful member of society. We chat frequently and he is aware of my success investing in SPY for decades and he knows we are FI in retirement.

-Grumpy old man, out.

They really don’t keep score in little league? Heck, it was cut throat when I was playing. All about winning. Good competition. Loved it.
I remember the first time I got a medal in a competition at summer camp. I was thrilled that I earned it. I think I would’ve seen right thru “ participating trophies “. My old man would’ve laughed. I still remember him saying I only signed up for little league when I was bigger than everyone else. He probably wasn’t wrong ( I waited to I was competent, not bigger)
That stuff motivated me, some shrink from it.

 

[Texas Proud]

Thanks for the clarification.

You are correct, but not so much like or dislike it. I don't agree with it. So yeah, it might just be you who believes that a "child" living at home at 25 is a failure of the parents. I don't believe that, and based on replies in the discussion, others don't as well.

We disagree, and that's ok.

I agree that it is ok we disagree, it is the way of life... but there are a lot of posts that seem to agree with me... so not quite just me...

I was reading an article recently about how parents are not 'launching' their kids.. it was professional people saying that not having goals etc. for your kids and allowing them to stay at home is a disservice to them... wish I knew where it was...

I am not talking about the kids that have mental problems or some other reason for not moving forward, but the discussion seems to be able kids that have jobs (some of them very good) but still do not launch..