Let's talk Self Driving Cars again!

Nah. I make a point to pay enough attention to what's going on that I never have to have someone let me in. It's part of the efficiency I mentioned.
Very much depends on where you drive and the amount of traffic. I can point you to several locations that, by the nature of our very "compact" road system, no amount of planning will keep you from "asking" permission to ease into someone else's lane. Folks in the Islands understand that (they've been there - done that - got the T-shirt) and almost always help others get into the lane they need. Driving with Aloha is "expected" and, usually is received when permission is politely asked (with your turn signal).
 
I only balk when I see someone driving as fast as they can to pass a few extra cars and then want to cut in.
The thing is, there's pretty much always an opening if you pace the traffic in the lane you want in, because people are distracted and don't get going immediately. It's slowing way down (or even stopping!) in order to get in another lane that causes problems.


I've been guilty of driving WITHOUT Aloha in such unusual situations (heh, heh, it's always a 1) Souped up compact or 2) Massive pick-'em-up not holding up their end of the social contract).

If they do that with no upcoming merge point, then it's no different from what I did with Waymo.

However, if there's a merge point, going past cars and waiting until the merge point to change lanes is the most efficient thing to do. It's called the zipper merge and Colorado officially endorses is and puts it on signs but people just refuse to do it. Even I feel a little guilty going past all those cars stacked up in one lane but I remind myself I'm doing the right thing.

https://www.coloradoan.com/story/ne...y-you-should-do-it-colorado-rules/1487161001/

Doesn't Waymo learn from others' driving? If that's the case, then getting them to do the zipper merge is hopeless.
 
The thing is, there's pretty much always an opening if you pace the traffic in the lane you want in, because people are distracted and don't get going immediately. It's slowing way down (or even stopping!) in order to get in another lane that causes problems.
Maybe where you drive, this is true. Where I drive, it's not uncommon to enter a Freeway and then need to cross 4 lanes of traffic to use an exit - all within a few hundred yards - and NO, there's not always a merge point as other people are also exiting and have cue'd up.

If they do that with no upcoming merge point, then it's no different from what I did with Waymo.
The difference is that Waymo wasn't displaying anti-Aloha behavior.

Doesn't Waymo learn from others' driving?
Possibly Waymo learns some swear words. :cool:
 
Do any other auto makers offer a nearly self driving ability that equals FSD 14? It does not have to be an EV though that would be great. But, I will also consider ICE vehicles, especially a hybrid.
No.
 
Do any other auto makers offer a nearly self driving ability that equals FSD 14? It does not have to be an EV though that would be great. But, I will also consider ICE vehicles, especially a hybrid.
I would consider an ICE if they did.
 
I do not think how a car is moved make any difference to self driving... so EV, hybrid or ICE can do it..

I have seen some good results with MB, but not everyday driving..

However, I think a lot of cars will be offering this in the future... and I have seen some videos of Chinese cars that 'seem' to rival Waymo with their sensors... not sure how they drive though..
 
I do not think how a car is moved make any difference to self driving... so EV, hybrid or ICE can do it..

I have seen some good results with MB, but not everyday driving..

However, I think a lot of cars will be offering this in the future... and I have seen some videos of Chinese cars that 'seem' to rival Waymo with their sensors... not sure how they drive though..
MB self driving only works in parts of California and Germany, they have a lot of catch up work to do.
 
While Tesla has the most capable driver assistance package, it may not be the ‘best’ depending on your needs.

In my case, over 3 years, I had the car brake hard while on highway/freeways 5 times.
I have never had another car do this and just wasn’t comfortable using FSD anymore.

It was a rare event, and for all I know it never happens anymore (the last occurrence was on FSD 12).

Someday, I will find FSD useful when my driving skills aren’t up to the task. By that time I hope another brand has a fully automated car.
 
Do any other auto makers offer a nearly self driving ability that equals FSD 14? It does not have to be an EV though that would be great. But, I will also consider ICE vehicles, especially a hybrid.
Not for sale in the US.

Waymo is considered to be better and maybe some of the Chinese EVs which have LiDAR in cars under $30k without any subscription.

You could see videos of Chinese cars navigating from city to city and then parking itself into a tight parking spot.
 
While Tesla has the most capable driver assistance package, it may not be the ‘best’ depending on your needs.

In my case, over 3 years, I had the car brake hard while on highway/freeways 5 times.
I have never had another car do this and just wasn’t comfortable using FSD anymore.

It was a rare event, and for all I know it never happens anymore (the last occurrence was on FSD 12).

Someday, I will find FSD useful when my driving skills aren’t up to the task. By that time I hope another brand has a fully automated car.
That’s interesting because I experienced far more hard braking events with autosteer/adaptive cruise than FSD. And is a big reason that I won’t go back. I don’t think I’ve experienced any hard braking with FSD, and the rare “phantom braking” has been much milder and extremely brief - it recovers much faster. I’m still using FSD 12.
 
I have not had any breaking in a long time. Today V14 dodged a dead skunk.
Yesterday V12 was in the middle of changing lanes but hesitated for a second so it missed a dark dead cat. DH was sure the car would run over it.
 
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I read a columnist say that Waymo is generally more expensive than Uber or Lyft in the Bay Area.

They just started allowing Waymo to SFO but they have to drop off and pick up further away from the terminals than Uber or Lyft, which is just outside the door and across the driveway.
 
Just announced that Waymo is coming to Sacramento. Oh Boy.

Good luck. My friends and I are avid swappers of Waymo stories. These are personal encounters, in addition to the news reports with video showing Waymos driving right past stopped school buses with kids in the street.

The other day my friend was on a four-lane street with a left turn lane, stopped at a light. She was several cars back, in the "middle" lane, between the left turn lane to her left and the go-straight lane to her right. All lanes were full of cars.

The light turned green and the other two lanes started moving but not hers. Long time, and still not moving. Then people in her lane were getting into the lane to the right of them when there was an opening. She finally managed to do it, and the reason her lane wasn't moving was because there was a Waymo in the pole position in her (go straight) lane, sitting there at the green light with its left blinker on.

She wanted to glare at it as she went by, but you can't shame a Waymo.
 
Tesla Robotaxis are far more likely to be in crashes than human drivers, despite having a safety monitor on board most of the time.

According to a chart in Tesla’s Q4 2025 earnings report showing cumulative robotaxi miles, the fleet has traveled approximately 500,000 miles as of November 2025. That works out to roughly one crash every 55,000 miles.

For comparison, human drivers in the United States average approximately one police-reported crash every 500,000 miles, according to NHTSA data.

That means Tesla’s robotaxis are crashing at a rate 9 times higher than the average human driver.

However, that figure doesn’t include non-police-reported incidents. When adding those, or rather an estimate of those, humans are closer to 200,000 miles between crashes, which is still a lot better than Tesla’s robotaxi in Austin.

The safety monitor problem​

Here’s what makes this data particularly damning: every Tesla robotaxi in the reported mileage had a safety monitor in the vehicle who can intervene at any moment.

These aren’t fully autonomous vehicles operating without backup. There’s a human sitting in the car whose entire job is to prevent crashes. And yet Tesla’s crash rate is still nearly an order of magnitude worse than regular human drivers operating alone.

Waymo, by comparison, operates a fully driverless fleet, no safety monitor, no human backup, and reports significantly better safety numbers. Waymo has logged over 125 million autonomous miles and maintains a crash rate well below human averages.

The transparency gap​

Perhaps more troubling than the crash rate is Tesla’s complete lack of transparency about what happened.

Every single Tesla crash narrative in the NHTSA database is redacted with the same phrase: “[REDACTED, MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS INFORMATION]”

We know a Tesla robotaxi hit a cyclist. We don’t know what happened.
We know one caused a minor injury. We don’t know what happened.
We know one hit an animal at 27 mph. We don’t know what happened.

 
I rode in a Waymo a couple of years ago in San Francisco and was left with the feeling that I was glimpsing into the future. The ride went off without a hitch and was better than your average Uber/Lyft ride. If you get a chance, give it a try.
 

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