Life in the West (Western US)

[skipro33]

I live in one of the highest fire rated areas of California, Placerville. I pay $2800 a year for homeowners insurance on a house valued at about $1M on 5 acres. I pay roughly $150 a month for metered water and I use during summer at least 500 gallons per day. I pay around $500 a YEAR for electricity since I have solar, and $500 a year for propane, about 600 gallons. I have a septic, so no sewer. Trash is about $50 a month. Xfinity Internet, TV, landline phone and 2 cell phones runs just under $300 total per month.
Many of my neighbors can't get private homeowners insurance and pay in excess of $1000 a month for the alternative California Fair Plan for fire and supplemental. They also pay at least $800 a month for their electric and twice my water bill if the have a pool. On average, 2 of 3 neighbors have a pool. Property tax for my place runs $3000 a year because of Prop 13 andy ownership here for at least 40 years. Someone buying a $1M home today would pay around $10,000 a year, 1%, annually for property taxes.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Coastal California has the best weather in the world, and not every part of California is prone to wildfires. Which is why housing is so expensive there-high demand. My family is 5th generation Californian, and most of my cousins live there, and the rest are in Oregon, Washington, and Nevada. I left California because work was absolutely killing me and my son was floundering in school. It was an incredibly good move to find ourselves in PA, with a job that gave me more time, a house that would be worth more than $1.5 million if it were transplanted to CA, great schools, a ski resort I can see from my house, and Hershey Park is nearby. Spring and fall are lovely here. In the Bay Area, most every day is lovely. I miss the weather, but I don't miss the traffic and the high cost of living.

Our sewer and trash bills were bundled with our property tax bill in CA. Here everything is separated. The only time we worried about wildfires was when the Oakland Hills burned in 1991. My husband grew up in the area and some of his friends parents lost their homes.

I wouldn't mind going back if there was a need but my social life is much richer here, so I have no intention of ever moving away. Our property taxes are about $3500/year and or electric bill is high in the winter when our solar panels do not provide as much electricity as we use. The cost of electricity has gone way up in California due to the liability PG&E faced after the fire that destroyed Paradise and other fires. We just replanted our orchard this year and the PG&E bill for our well pump is astronomical compared to four years ago.

 

[AudiDudi]

25 ac 3 bdrm in MT. Property tax ~2k/yr. Garbage $15/mo - no water bill as on a well. HO ins ~$1.k. 500 gals/day in water - wow. I use 200 gal/hr x at least 80 hours /mo to just keep the lawn green. Glad there is no bill for it. No OTA TV, no cell service. $155/mo for Internet/phone and streaming services. Electricity similar at around $5-600/yr.

 

[skipro33]

500 gallons/day in water - wow. I use 200 gal/hr x at least 80 hours /mo to just keep the lawn green.

500 gal a day is 15,000gal per month.
200 gal an hour*80hrs= 16,000gal per month, so we are not too different.

 

[TrvlBug]

SF Bay Area here. Have lived here most of my life and DH and I have no intention of moving out of the area...we can afford it here, great weather, great health care options, fabulous recreation/entertainment options.

Negatives other than family in the midwest and east coast, are we live in a 'moderate fire risk area' with 'high' 2 blocks away and 'severe' about 1/4 mile away. We are concerned about losing our HO coverage ($3K/year) like some of our neighbors in the higher fire risk areas have and are just finishing up to comply with the local 'wildfire defensible space & home hardening' ordinance put in place a couple of months ago. Our next door neighbors had to get a fire dept. compliance signoff before their insurance company would cover their newly built ADU.

Our water bill is about $75/month, low as we ripped out the lawn 15 years ago and replaced everything with drought tolerant plants and drip irrigation. Two of our next door neighbors with lawns pay around $500/month. Property taxes are very low under Prop 13 at $12K/year as we've been here 27 years. Trash is $80/month. Gas heat is $1K for the winter season. Electricity is $10/mo as we have solar. Prior to solar installation last fall, our electric bill was $2K/year. We'll never break even in our lifetime as we also installed two batteries, giving us about 2.5 days with lights during our 3 and 4 day power outages.

Life is good here .

 

[RobLJ]

I grew up in rural Missouri and Oklahoma, so my rural postal mail carrier Oklahoma grandfather, who was a carpenter, built a very spare cabin below Aspen in 1964 when I was he 6 (he did the foundation and framing when I was staying with him and grandma before the parental units came up and "rescued" me). I loved Colorado ever since and would sleep with my twin on the porch listening to the Crystal River roaring down to the Roaring Fork (the river that comes down from Aspen) every summer.
The West is a wide and vast place.
We're very happy in Reno but our oldest, the winemaker, is probably going to move to Denver due to his job next year, and DW will want to follow, given that she has baby sit the 1 year old granddaughter, as well as the two older grandsons over in the Cali Central Valley. I'm fine with that (we had a cabin beyond the Royal Gorge to get away from the Houston heat before we decided to retire to Reno).
As long as I can hike and flyfish, I don't care much where in the West I am located, and I'm glad I'm not in Houston, where I worked my whole career. Love Houston and its people, but I love the mountains more. My grandfather spoiled me.
I also like Asheville, Boone, the Finger Lakes,, and upper Massachusetts (maternal grandparents were there), Maine, and Vermont/New Hampshire, but I prefer the Mountain West.
America has plethora of great places. I sometimes dream of my grandfather's cabin and where we used to backpack, behind Aspen, 50 years after when I was there every summer. I wake up with the place we used to camp vividly in my mind's eye. I guess that kind of experience doesn't dissipate even over the years. It is paradise, and I don't use that word easily. The Sierras are similar, but you have to love the mountains. I do.

 

[Ronstar]

^Nice story! When I close my eyes, I can see your grandfather's cabin.

I'd like to find a secluded place in the mountain west as well.

 

[DrRoy]

We love visiting the West, and will continue doing so. However, we would not want to live there. From water shortages, to heat, to fires, to most of our family living in the east, it is not where we want to live.

 

[dixonge]

Slight deviation here - western Mexico
#2 or #3 best climate in the world (depending on whose rankings you check)

Rent 2br/2ba $1,100, fully furnished, modern appliances, amazing lake view - pool+large salon+rooftop terrace w/ fire pits
Fiber optic internet with an average speed of 50Mbps up *and* down - included in rent.
Water included in rent
Solar panels reduce electric bill to around $1.50 US PER MONTH (not a typo) (no A/C or heat)
Propane runs around $8/mo.

This is one of the more expensive rentals in the area.

I lived in north-central and central Texas for 50 years. This climate is a *very* nice change of pace!

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Slight deviation here - western Mexico
#2 or #3 best climate in the world (depending on whose rankings you check)

Lake Chapala?

 

[Koolau]

Slight deviation here - western Mexico
#2 or #3 best climate in the world (depending on whose rankings you check)

Rent 2br/2ba $1,100, fully furnished, modern appliances, amazing lake view - pool+large salon+rooftop terrace w/ fire pits
Fiber optic internet with an average speed of 50Mbps up *and* down - included in rent.
Water included in rent
Solar panels reduce electric bill to around $1.50 US PER MONTH (not a typo) (no A/C or heat)
Propane runs around $8/mo.

This is one of the more expensive rentals in the area.

I lived in north-central and central Texas for 50 years. This climate is a *very* nice change of pace!

You must be at some elevation to avoid AC in summer.

I assume you're in an area that is not only safe but amenable to expats. Do you keep an address in the USA? Any serious language issues?

I've always been fascinated with expat life but never had the courage to try it. Closest we came was moving to Hawaii which is still the USA - but it's not America. And I do occasionally have issues with the language (I don't do well in pidgin yet.)

Heh, heh, our HOA dues are not much less than your rent! Way to go.

 

[tutan]

I grew up in rural Missouri and Oklahoma, so my rural postal mail carrier Oklahoma grandfather, who was a carpenter, built a very spare cabin below Aspen in 1964 when I was he 6 (he did the foundation and framing when I was staying with him and grandma before the parental units came up and "rescued" me). I loved Colorado ever since and would sleep with my twin on the porch listening to the Crystal River roaring down to the Roaring Fork (the river that comes down from Aspen) every summer.
The West is a wide and vast place.
We're very happy in Reno but our oldest, the winemaker, is probably going to move to Denver due to his job next year, and DW will want to follow, given that she has baby sit the 1 year old granddaughter, as well as the two older grandsons over in the Cali Central Valley. I'm fine with that (we had a cabin beyond the Royal Gorge to get away from the Houston heat before we decided to retire to Reno).
As long as I can hike and flyfish, I don't care much where in the West I am located, and I'm glad I'm not in Houston, where I worked my whole career. Love Houston and its people, but I love the mountains more. My grandfather spoiled me.
I also like Asheville, Boone, the Finger Lakes,, and upper Massachusetts (maternal grandparents were there), Maine, and Vermont/New Hampshire, but I prefer the Mountain West.
America has plethora of great places. I sometimes dream of my grandfather's cabin and where we used to backpack, behind Aspen, 50 years after when I was there every summer. I wake up with the place we used to camp vividly in my mind's eye. I guess that kind of experience doesn't dissipate even over the years. It is paradise, and I don't use that word easily. The Sierras are similar, but you have to love the mountains. I do.

Yes I love the High Sierra. I used to think we could retire to Bishop but that was years ago and better healthcare access has become essential now. Reno is close to so many Sierra trailheads along 395 whereas it takes 5 hours just to get to Bridgeport from the Bay Area. Speaking of cabins, if you haven’t visited Lon Chaney’s stone cabin, it’s worth the hike. Going farther to the lakes above to get a closer view of the southernmost glacier in the U.S. is spectacular.

 

[Flyfish1]

My sister lives in a small town in upstate NY. Her neighbor friend is a realtor. In the past month, she's had six
inquiries for homes from people wanting to move from Texas. That's unheard of for her little sleepy town
and no new job growth going on either.
As well, there's a subreddit group called "samegrassbutgreener" - it's a large group of people who give
advice to others seeking to move to other states.
I keep seeing in that group, my state (NY) suggested time and again as a climate haven...hard to believe. Unheard of even
a few short years ago. People aren't even batting their lashes at our property taxes - only looking at our attributes.

I grew up in " almost nowhere" upstate NY and left it as quickly as I could. Now in retrospect it is certainly a potential climate refuge. There are an abundance of fresh water resources and a " cool " climate. OK it gets hot in the short summer and darn cold in the winter and some areas get 6 ft of snow and the taxes are ridiculous because of NYC and Long Island but other than that...
Seriously, my 89 yo Father has said for 20 years that upstate NY will be a needed fresh water refuge in the future. I think time is proving him right. I'm still not moving back.

 

[perinova]

Northern California resident here,
Property insurance has increased a lot, and it is harder to find a competing quote. I gave up trying to find cheaper at last year renewal in December. Will try again this year.
My water/trash/sewer bill is combined and I pay close to $200 a month. This regularly horrifies me. I am not sure what it would be somewhere else, but interestigly, the last time I screened that bill I noticed that, out of this, the cost of water is only about $15. (there is a flat monthly subscription charge added of course).
All in all I think people are cautious of water around here, comparatively to the AZ sun valley where I lived for a while, where some didn't seem to care much about conservation but YMMV.

 

[dixonge]

Lake Chapala?

Sí Señor!

You must be at some elevation to avoid AC in summer.

I assume you're in an area that is not only safe but amenable to expats. Do you keep an address in the USA? Any serious language issues?

I've always been fascinated with expat life but never had the courage to try it. Closest we came was moving to Hawaii which is still the USA - but it's not America. And I do occasionally have issues with the language (I don't do well in pidgin yet.)

Heh, heh, our HOA dues are not much less than your rent! Way to go.

Yep, about 1 mile high. Thousands of expats.

Yes, we have an address (my brother's) and a mail forwarding service, although we don't actually forward anything if possible.

I had to learn Spanish beyond my very rudimentary high school classes which I had mostly forgotten. but we do ok.

 

[Koolau]

Sí Señor!

Yep, about 1 mile high. Thousands of expats.

Yes, we have an address (my brother's) and a mail forwarding service, although we don't actually forward anything if possible.

I had to learn Spanish beyond my very rudimentary high school classes which I had mostly forgotten. but we do ok.

Thanks. You have again piqued my interest in the expat life. I really looked into it BEFORE I was finally FI. It seemed a reasonable alternative if the stars did not align to allow us to FIRE when we wanted to.

Now, I suppose, it's more of a curiosity (how to you do it, what are the advantages, disadvantages, on and on.) BUT the one question I'll ask - just being my usual nosy self - What was your main motivation? Was it like me (back in the day)? Was it the lure of less expensive living with good health care, good weather, adventure, etc.? I thought in terms of "well if the Hawaii thing turns out to be more expensive than we can afford, we could try "actual" expat life."

Thanks again for any vicarious insights you care to provide us. I find I'm still fascinated by the concept (if not the reality at this point in my life.) Aloha

 

[dixonge]

What was your main motivation? Was it like me (back in the day)? Was it the lure of less expensive living with good health care, good weather, adventure, etc.?

Yeah, initially a lot of the motivation was to make our funds last until our pensions kicked in. And that gave us four years. The first was camping around the U.S., the last three were in Mexico with stops in Belize, Guatemala, Nicaragua and Costa Rica.
Had to go back to work for a couple of years. My 'vested' date for my own pension coincided nicely with the wife's date for being able to take hers. So we came back to Mexico for mostly frugal reasons. Now that we're on full pension/SS income we *could* live most anywhere, but staying here allows us to max out our investments so that later in life we can overcome inflation and not have to live in some crappy low-rent Medicaid nursing home.
Plus yeah, the weather is great and we have lots of expat friends (mostly US, a good smattering of Canadians). It's a great home base from which to travel from.

 

[Ian S]

... So we came back to Mexico for mostly frugal reasons. Now that we're on full pension/SS income we *could* live most anywhere, but staying here allows us to max out our investments so that later in life we can overcome inflation and not have to live in some crappy low-rent Medicaid nursing home.
Plus yeah, the weather is great and we have lots of expat friends (mostly US, a good smattering of Canadians). It's a great home base from which to travel from.

For me, the negatives of living in many parts of Mexico would offset the positives. Many of the states in Mexico are listed as "do not travel" or "reconsider travel" by our State Department due to organized criminal activity. Maybe I've watched too many episodes of "Narcos" but foreigners are not immune from the violence. Luckily, we appear to have sufficient resources to live out our days in the USA or, if we chose, Canada due to my dual citizenship.

 

[dixonge]

For me, the negatives of living in many parts of Mexico would offset the positives. Many of the states in Mexico are listed as "do not travel" or "reconsider travel" by our State Department due to organized criminal activity. Maybe I've watched too many episodes of "Narcos" but foreigners are not immune from the violence. Luckily, we appear to have sufficient resources to live out our days in the USA or, if we chose, Canada due to my dual citizenship.

Your first mistake is to give government travel warnings more than a cursory glance. Most of the places we've lived in the last 12 years have some sort of travel warning on them. We've lived in Zacatecas, Chiapas and now Jalisco, and we've traveled everywhere from Cabo san Lucas to Cancun, most of that on buses. And yes, you probably *have* watched too much Narcos. lol

But seriously - don't buy drugs off the street and don't live near the border. That's 95% of the problem here. Similar advice would do one in any country - don't hang out where criminals hang out and do business.

 

[ziggy29]

We love visiting the West, and will continue doing so. However, we would not want to live there. From water shortages, to heat, to fires, to most of our family living in the east, it is not where we want to live.

Where we live in the west is one of the least impacted areas in the country by an increasing number of "extreme weather" events. It rains a lot here so we pretty much never deal with drought, or with wildfires that can occur more often inland, but rarely on the coast. As a result, homeowners insurance here is fairly cheap compared to the national average and I haven't seen any of the crazy rate increases others have (our most recent renewal was actually DOWN about 4%).

Of course, what we do have is that nasty Cascadia subduction zone just off the coast... we live a mile inland, up a hill 160' above the ocean, so we won't get hit by tsunami but most of the town below could get wiped out. And we've recently had a seismic retrofit done, so we should survive an earthquake reasonably intact.

 

[Chuckanut]

We’re just a bunch of cowboys and lumberjacks. Add in some sodbusters also. Stay East of the Mississippi where all the sophisticated people are.

 

[ziggy29]

We’re just a bunch of cowboys and lumberjacks. Add in some sodbusters also. Stay East of the Mississippi where all the sophisticated people are.

Can't get much west of the Rockies for less than half a million anyway.

 

[Koolau]

Your first mistake is to give government travel warnings more than a cursory glance. Most of the places we've lived in the last 12 years have some sort of travel warning on them. We've lived in Zacatecas, Chiapas and now Jalisco, and we've traveled everywhere from Cabo san Lucas to Cancun, most of that on buses. And yes, you probably *have* watched too much Narcos. lol

But seriously - don't buy drugs off the street and don't live near the border. That's 95% of the problem here. Similar advice would do one in any country - don't hang out where criminals hang out and do business.

I always wondered about such things in Mexico and figured a lot of it was hype - just like we get on the evening news in the Islands. For the most part, the crime we have is due to the drug trade. If you stay away from that (and certain areas) chances of being a victim are small. The other thing I do is not own much worth stealing. My cars are old, my belongings are relatively few and have little street value. Common sense and gut instinct go a long way.

 

[Surewhitey]

Your first mistake is to give government travel warnings more than a cursory glance. Most of the places we've lived in the last 12 years have some sort of travel warning on them. We've lived in Zacatecas, Chiapas and now Jalisco, and we've traveled everywhere from Cabo san Lucas to Cancun, most of that on buses. And yes, you probably *have* watched too much Narcos. lol

But seriously - don't buy drugs off the street and don't live near the border. That's 95% of the problem here. Similar advice would do one in any country - don't hang out where criminals hang out and do business.

+1 we've driven & explored eastern Mexico and Belize with the same experience for 3 years. Stay away from the border and don't drive flashy cars to stick out.

 

[Milkman]

In Northern Colorado we can have smoky days from fires originating anywhere from 10 miles away to 1000 miles away. The Canadian forest fires in Alberta gave us smoke for several weeks this summer.