Literally: Life After Fire

[Andre1969]

I was struggling with OMY for a few years. My last 2 years of w*rk I cut back to 4 days/week. I took Wednesdays off, which was a perfect way to break up the week. As a "type A" personality, I knew I would get bored with three day weekends. I found it refreshingly liberating and enjoyable. It was once of the best choices I made. It also made the transition into retirement so much easier.

Now that you are in a different phase of your life, there is no reason to believe it will be the same as past experiences for you. Maybe you can take your vacation days one at a time each week for a month or so and see how it works for you before you decide.

Back in early 2015, I actually started doing that. Well, not consistently, but I did begin working half-days on Wednesdays, and occasionally taking the day off entirely. It was definitely a nice way to break up the week. And suddenly, Monday didn't feel so bad anymore, while Tuesday almost felt like a Friday. And knowing I only had to work two full days in a row, versus five, made the whole work grind a lot more bearable.

In late 2018, I moved. Whereas my old house was only about 10 minutes from work on a bad day, the new place was more like 35-45 in the morning, and 40-45 or even worse in the evening. So, I started staggering my hours a bit. On Mon/Tues/Thurs I'd work a bit late, so that I was hitting the road home when rush hour was pretty much over. On Wed/Fri I'd leave around noon, or even a bit before, and go goof off and do whatever, or simply come home and find something to do, well before rush hour traffic. And sometimes I'd take Wednesday off completely.

I think working from home, which I started in March of 2020, is what really got me stuck in the OMY mindset. I feel like I'm sort of stuck in limbo, not working full time in the traditional sense, and not retired, but sort of a melding of the two.

I like your idea of using my leave to start taking a day off, fairly consistently, to see if I'd like the idea of scaling back. It's a lot less permanent than cutting back to 30 hours per week...if I did that, and decided I didn't like it, there's no guarantee that the company would let me go back to 40. Plus, I'd still be getting full pay, the full leave accrual, and so on.

 

[FindingForward]

i wonder if most of the folks struggling in retirement (and all the "experts" preaching that we must have "purpose") score higher on the extrovert meter vs introverts. The latter are often more content in their own company for longer stretches, without needing as much external connection or validation.

 

[pacergal]

I think a purpose is important for, say, a hammer, a wrench, a sewing kit, or a new high-salaried employee. I am none of the above. I can spend all day sleeping, doing jigsaw puzzles, or hugging a puppy, and feel perfectly fine about fulfilling my "purpose" during these later years of my life.

This is a wonderful reminder.

Every once in a while I feel like I "need to do something" in retirement.
Then I remind myself that I worked 38 years full time, as an RN, doing for others.
Now, my "something" is taking care of myself. I do what I want every day, spend time with grandkids, volunteer at a local food pantry monthly, read, garden, etc.
Retirement Life is great!

 

[rk911]

The article quoted by Tick Tock does not apply to my wife or myself. We both retired at 55, "worked" a few volunteer positions (locak museum docent (volunteer), election judge ($) and school crossing guard ($). The crossing guard paid VERY WELL! We quit everything when we started spending the winter in AZ. That's also ended...for now. We're happy and content with life. No regrets.

 

[disneysteve]

I don’t think you need some lofty “purpose” but you do need enjoyable activities to occupy your time and your mind. That might be volunteering. That might be auditing a college course. That might be getting more active at your house of worship. That might be pickleball or community theater or gardening or any number of other things people do with their free time. I think the people who “fail” retirement and end up going back to work or getting really depressed are the ones who have never fostered or even explored anything beyond their jobs.

 

[marko]

I don’t think you need some lofty “purpose” but you do need enjoyable activities to occupy your time and your mind. That might be volunteering. That might be auditing a college course. That might be getting more active at your house of worship. That might be pickleball or community theater or gardening or any number of other things people do with their free time. I think the people who “fail” retirement and end up going back to work or getting really depressed are the ones who have never fostered or even explored anything beyond their jobs.

With only a tiny bit of hyperbole: For 34 years I didn't have the time to just sit in my home, read a book with a glass of scotch. I didn't have the time to just lay in the sun at my pool. We'd have to take a week or two somewhere where I couldn't be reached, hell or high water. (Harder to do nowadays) I wasn't even home 200 days a year.

Made a ton of money but it wasn't a job, it was a lifestyle.

I'm quite fine not volunteering for anything and just being able to "be" and be left alone.

 

[Scrapr]

Retired now for 3.5 years. Sold my business (payment plan for 5 years) My name was part of the business name. So imagine getting away from that. My late wife was worried about "what are you going to do all day" and I married you for life but not for lunch. LOL I had started the transition to selling the business by bringing the future owner on board. A bit over a month later my wife got Dx with cancer & passed year and a half later. I had planned to show the ropes to the new owner but I was so busy w/my wife that he got thrown into the deep end.

I still go in to the office (to collect my check!) and sometimes into the field. The hard part has been the networking events. I go only rarely now where as before it was 1-2 things a week.

I'm still finding my footing but travel planning is taking up a bunch of my time. We (new wife & I) go overseas 1-2 times a year for about a month at a time, plus some local travel. And I'm good with just sitting home with the dogs

 

[disneysteve]

With only a tiny bit of hyperbole: For 34 years I didn't have the time to just sit in my home, read a book with a glass of scotch. I didn't have the time to just lay in the sun at my pool. We'd have to take a week or two somewhere where I couldn't be reached, hell or high water. (Harder to do nowadays) I wasn't even home 200 days a year.

Made a ton of money but it wasn't a job, it was a lifestyle.

I'm quite fine not volunteering for anything and just being able to "be" and be left alone.

And that’s absolutely fine. If you enjoy just hanging out at home and relaxing, go for it. That is an activity in itself. The people who run into trouble are the ones who don’t know how to “just be” and have no idea what to do with themselves once they stop working.

 

[Dtail]

With only a tiny bit of hyperbole: For 34 years I didn't have the time to just sit in my home, read a book with a glass of scotch. I didn't have the time to just lay in the sun at my pool. We'd have to take a week or two somewhere where I couldn't be reached, hell or high water. (Harder to do nowadays) I wasn't even home 200 days a year.

Made a ton of money but it wasn't a job, it was a lifestyle.

I'm quite fine not volunteering for anything and just being able to "be" and be left alone.

I'm with you on the volunteering bit. Sometimes it can also end up somewhat like a job.
Today I gave a Pickleball lesson and a certain shot she finally mastered. That is my substitution of the ego satisfaction I used to get at work.

 

[Arizona1]

I was opposite. My first year in the military I was a shadow learning from a guy about to retire. It was mostly what he liked to talk about so I learned and became proficient in the subject. When he left I felt like I got left behind. I started buying multi family rentals I could maintain. I was forced to retire at 34 when I sold one and had to pay the resulting taxes. Since then I’ve been in my natural state.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

Lord all Friday I was afraid this post was about starting over after your house burned down......

I was a firefighter and in the insurance business, both for over 30 years. That made me realize I don't have a problem in the world if my house is standing and my family is safe. My dog too. I've witnessed hardship that most would gladly trade our place for.

 

[doneat54]

Though it doesn’t happen to everyone, there are some people who become bored and depressed in retirement, that’s not the quality of life any of us are looking for. Most often it’s probably people for whom their career was their life, their purpose and their social network. Less likely if you’re married, especially with kids. Surely we’ve all worked alongside a few people who really didn’t have much of a life outside work. Add being forced to retire before you planned due to health issues or RIF and/or not having adequate funds for the retirement you imagined. I’m glad most here are doing well in retirement, but just because it’s worked out for you doesn’t mean retirement is all wonderful for everyone. Some people aren’t good at seeing the POV of others…

This. I was reading this thread and thought to post until I saw this.

I'll spare the essay. Me, FIRE'd 7+ years ago, have never been happier/busier. But that doesn't mean that everyone's retirement experience should/can. It's the transition of our lives from one (significant) state to another. Some have anticipated/planned well, others, not so much. "Life outside of work" is a huge facet, but I'll leave comment on that alone for now.....

 

[Teacher Terry]

i wonder if most of the folks struggling in retirement (and all the "experts" preaching that we must have "purpose") score higher on the extrovert meter vs introverts. The latter are often more content in their own company for longer stretches, without needing as much external connection or validation.

I would guess that you are correct. I’m an extrovert and need some type of purpose.

 

[srblanco7]

Transitioning to RPT (3 days/week) in a few weeks as a first step toward ER. Test case to see how I do with so much "free time". I'm convinced I'll be fine with gym, golf, home-related projects, managing finances, finding creative ways to tire out the dog, etc. DW is less certain.

This will also give us a "test run" with our retirement spending budget.

How long I continue with RPT will largely be related to who the Company selects as my successor - there's an obvious/correct choice, but they feel obligated to post & slate.

 

[ER Eddie]

I'm coming up on 5 years retired, and I'm doing well. But prior to retirement, I read a book called The Retirement Maze, by Pascale and Primavera. It was depressing. So many stories of people struggling in retirement -- not financially, necessarily, but psychologically, socially, existentially.

This forum is filled with people who enjoy their retirement, and that's great. I'm one of them. But there are many people who don't. From what I've seen, they fall into several camps (maybe more than one):

1. Those who retired involuntarily. There's a big difference between retiring when you choose to and being forced into it for external reasons (e.g., being laid off or having health problems). Iirc, about half the sample in the book were of this type.

2. People whose identity and status (and the self-esteem that comes with that status) was wrapped up in their position at work. I hear "purpose" mentioned a lot, but status is a big issue that often gets overlooked. Think of the physician or lawyer, for instance, who has a high-status position, and then loses that standing when he/she retires, becoming just another guy. Maybe he has the big status symbol house, but he no longer has a position where he is treated as special, as important, as someone to defer to, the expert. Comedowns in status like that can be very difficult for people to whom status matters a lot (and to some degree, status matters to everyone; it's wired in) and whose sense of status came from their position. You see a similar thing in CEOs, department heads, etc.

3. People who feel at a loss for what to do with themselves with all the free time. When they were working, their lives were consumed with work and domestic obligations, plus a little entertainment. For whatever reason, they never developed interests or hobbies outside of that. If you haven't done that, it's not likely that you'll develop them afterwards. You might add a few things to your plate, but your personality isn't going to undergo some massive transformation, just because you're retired. I know several people like this. They say that if they retired, they wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

4. People for whom work is a major source of social satisfaction. When they retire, they feel lonely and isolated. They have lost a huge chunk of their social life. Some people have trouble replacing that.

5. Financial stresses. I don't think this needs elaboration.

6. Lack of purpose/meaning. People sometimes glitch when they hear the word "purpose." Maybe it's better to think in terms of "activity you find meaningful." It doesn't have to be something big or lofty. It could be reading good books, building something, making a garden, taking care of your children, enjoying nature, trying to be a decent person -- whatever feels meaningful to you. It's highly individual. Some people struggle to find that sense of meaning when they retire.

7. Health problems. These aren't limited to retirees, of course, but do correlate with age. The older you get, the more things break down, and that can be no fun.


I'm probably missing something, but those are the factors that popped out to me. The Retirement Maze made it sound as if the majority of people who retire struggle with one or more of these issues, and that retirement is much less idyllic than is commonly portrayed. There may have been some exaggeration in their book, but it was also a sobering look at how retirement is for many people a stressful, unhappy experience.

 

[Andre1969]

I'm probably missing something, but those are the factors that popped out to me. The Retirement Maze made it sound as if the majority of people who retire struggle with one or more of these issues, and that retirement is much less idyllic than is commonly portrayed. There may have been some exaggeration in their book, but it was also a sobering look at how retirement is for many people a stressful, unhappy experience.

I'd say that was a pretty good list overall. However, I'm not so sure about the majority of retirees struggling. That might be some kind of sample bias, as the author is seeking out those types of people. I'd imagine there are plenty of people who went on to have a perfectly happy retirement, but that's not what the book is about.

In my opinion, it's kind of like how people talk about the "Lottery Curse," and how people who win the lottery are often worse off than before. However, most articles that cover these types of stories, I've noticed, have been simply repeating the same 5 or 10 extreme cases, probably since Charleton Heston parted the Red Sea. And even if they did come up with new examples, they're still excluding all of the lottery winners who went on to live happy lives, as those people aren't relevant to the narrative.

One thing I've noticed, with some people, is that once they get all that free time, they sometimes slow down, and find ways to fill it. For example, after my uncle retired, when it was time to cut the grass, he'd cut about half of it one day, and then save the rest for another day, so he'd have something to do! I've mowed that yard plenty of times, and it rarely takes more than an hour. And this is just riding around on a tractor, not having to actually push anything. The most strenuous parts of the task are opening the garage door and refueling the tractor!

As for me, I think my biggest concern about retiring is just second-guessing myself, a fear of the unknown, and worrying that I'm making the right decision. But, the financial aspect could be a part of that. Even though logically I know I probably have enough saved up, emotionally, I question it sometimes.

 

[Time2]

I think a purpose is important for, say, a hammer, a wrench, a sewing kit, or a new high-salaried employee. I am none of the above.

LOL, funny lines!

I can spend all day sleeping, doing jigsaw puzzles, or hugging a puppy, and feel perfectly fine about fulfilling my "purpose" during these later years of my life.

I've been retired almost 6 years, I went in without any purpose other than to not have a schedule to keep. I have an electronics bench and use it to build or repair items. I also have a small shop with tools and supplies that I can't throw away, because, I might need that. And sometimes I do! I do all the repairs around the house and keep my wife happy by doing the honey do's, the latest was adding more irrigation for her garden. My son recently bought a house that was hit by a tornado, we are doing all the repairs to make it a home for him. This will certainly change my schedule for several months, luckily the house is close, in the same subdivision, so I can zip home for tools or food.

 

[marko]

I will say that it can be a disorienting experience. What I found was that my first year and a half --what I thought and how I felt--was entirely different from the next 18 years.

Work does give you a certain structure and it takes time for you to get used to the idea that you're not 'on vacation' and that this is your new life...for the rest of your life. To me 'vacation' implies a work context that is no longer there...once you stop being on vacation and realize this is just how you live, you're half-way there.

All in all the transition itself was an interesting experience to go through.

 

[disneysteve]

One thing I've noticed, with some people, is that once they get all that free time, they sometimes slow down, and find ways to fill it.

I also think having the free time and being free of the "mind space" that work occupied lets people explore new interests and activities that weren't even on their radar prior to retirement.


My cousin has become a very active pickleball player. She wasn't the least bit into sports or exercise prior to retirement but now plays almost daily and travels around to tournaments. She also performed in a community theater production last year despite having zero theater experience. When she was working, she just didn't have the bandwidth for stuff like that.

Lots of people discover new interests and find ways to reinvent themselves once they're freed of the daily grind of work.

 

[TickTock]

It seems to me that the word 'purpose' means vastly different things to different people. To go back to Bill Perkins in Die With Zero, his idea of life purpose is to have as many positive experiences as possible before death. With that idea in mind, any and all of the things mentioned in this thread can be purposes - from petting an animal to hobbies, to volunteering, to reading a book in private, to [all other things mentioned]. Doesn't have to be some lofty and/or all-consuming goal.

 

[tmm99]

It took me a few years to find my footing after retirement. I was elated the first 6 minths as i was moving cross country and starting a new life ina new place. Then i hit the "Now, what?" phase.

You could say I was kind driven in my career. I think that is just my personality. I always wanted to set sight on what I wanted to accomplish, set goals and go for it. That eventually transferred to sports in retirement. I became a volleyball tournament junkie for a few years and now, at my later age, I'm making a switch to pickleball. What I engage myself in has changed, but my driven personality to try to excel in something hasn't. Actually, I seem to be much happier when I have something to focus on and go for.

I don't know if I had to make a conscious effort to reinvent myself. To be honest, I don't think I reinvented myself per se. I am still the same old me, doing some things other than wo*rk to sink my teeth into.

 

[ER Eddie]

It seems to me that the word 'purpose' means vastly different things to different people. ]....] Doesn't have to be some lofty and/or all-consuming goal.

Yeah, like I said a page back, many people associate "purpose" with a big, ambitious, service-oriented goal. "Life Purpose," that sort of thing -- something big, imposing and serious, maybe ordained from above. After a lifetime of work and self-sacrifice, that's the last thing they want to hear about. They want to take it easy. I get it. I'm the same way.

I've found it helpful to substitute the phrase "meaningful activity" for "purpose." Unless you want to split hairs, finding "purpose" and finding "meaningful activity" mean pretty much the same thing. But while "purpose" can sound heavy and imposing, finding "activities that are meaningful to me" is easy. They are all around me, every day.

So I prefer thinking in terms of "meaningful activity." It doesn't feel as heavy and serious as "finding purpose." And yet I think it boils down to the same thing.

I'd say that was a pretty good list overall. However, I'm not so sure about the majority of retirees struggling. That might be some kind of sample bias, as the author is seeking out those types of people. I'd imagine there are plenty of people who went on to have a perfectly happy retirement, but that's not what the book is about.

Yeah, no doubt. They had a particular spin on retirement, and they focused on the problems and struggles people had. They had data to back it up, but as we know, you can often slice and dice data to support whatever case you'd like. I think their intention was good -- to let people know that retirement isn't necessarily a bed of roses, and you need to think about these issues. A lot of people don't. They think it's just about money.

But at the same time, the authors did have a negative bias. Neither of them were retired themselves, so they were just speaking from survey data. One had tried to retire but found it unfulfilling, so he headed back to work. I'm sure their experience colored the way they approached the subject.

I read it before I retired. At the time, I remember thinking to myself, "This is the most depressing book on retirement I've ever read." Eventually, I threw the book away -- not because it lacked value, but because I'd already thought about the issues the authors mentioned, and it was overly negative about an experience I was looking forward to.

Still, I think it's helpful to hear the negative side of the story. We often hear just the good side. Fact is, a lot of people do struggle in retirement, for a variety of reasons.

 

[tmm99]

Eddie, i agree. You can't really call smelling the roses a life purpose, but you can definitely call that a meaningful activity! Not everyone has to have a lofty purpose.

 

[Zona]

So I prefer thinking in terms of "meaningful activity." It doesn't feel as heavy and serious as "finding purpose." And yet I think it boils down to the same thing.

This is a great comment. So many articles and documentaries (thinking of "Live to 100: Secrets of the Blue Zones" for example) list "finding your purpose". To me that sounds grandiosely definitive -- like "cure cancer" or "eradicate poverty". When I hear the phrase "purpose" it actually gives me a negative feeling in that if I don't find my purpose I am wasting my potential. Too much pressure.

I can definitely get my head around finding "meaningful activity" in my daily life, though. It gives the impression that your life can have many different "meaningful activities" along the way and not all of them have to be lifelong, either. Funny how just tweaking the phrase can make a big difference. Thanks!

 

[Tetto]

This is a wonderful reminder.
Every once in a while I feel like I "need to do something" in retirement.
Then I remind myself that I worked 38 years full time, as an RN, doing for others.

Truer words were never spoken.