Living trust updates

[surprising]

We have a living trust that we put together a couple decades ago when our kids were very young. It has details on who should care for the kids, who should be trustee, and gives a bunch of estate to various people we don't want to anymore. Now that the kids are adults, I want to remove all of that stuff and just simplify it to each kid getting half of everything. Can I just cross out whole sections of the trust and write in the new simple instructions?

 

[isisdave]

If you mean literally mark it up, No, not if you want it to be enforceable. Mark up a copy and give it to a lawyer to redraft.

 

[RetMD21]

Is there a clause in the trust about amendments? I don't know if actually doing it yourself is a good DIY project. You can also have a trust restatement. I am not sure if a restatement would require changing the title on assets. I would use an attorney but maybe I am just not very adventurous. Also I'd rather that the beneficiaries have to solve problems later in court.

 

[OldShooter]

We have a living trust that we put together a couple decades ago ...

Your estate plan is probably way overdue for a tune-up. You also may be conflating wills and trusts as it is wills that usually AFIK deal with guardianships for minors. State laws change, too. Time to pony up the $2-4K that it may cost to make sure everything is how you want it.

 

[RetMD21]

So I looked at our trust provisions. Amendments are the role of the test protector who is our estate planning attorney. Makes sense to me. There was a transition in trustees based on the age of our children. If you want to change beneficiaries that would seem to be important. If there is obsolete language about minor children I wouldn't think it needs to be removed.

 

[surprising]

This is what my trust document says about amendment:

"This Trust instrument may be amended at any time during the joint lives of the Grantors by an instrument in writing signed by both Grantors and delivered to the Trustee; however, the Trustee's duties and liabilities cannot be increased without its written consent."

To me it sounds like we can amend it however we want as long as we both sign it. Doesn't seem very secure. Anyone could write in whatever they want and forge our signatures after we're gone.

 

[marko]

Hitting my pre-typed response [crtl>alt>56]
"You need to get an estate lawyer involved. Worth every penny". This is not the time for DIY.

 

[Amethyst]

Agree with others who say to feed the lawyer machine. Don't know about other states, but in Florida, marking up a will is likely to invalidate it. Heck, a tear across the writing on the page is enough to invalidate it. It would probably invalidate a Florida will if you sneezed on it too energetically.

 

[Montecfo]

We have a living trust that we put together a couple decades ago when our kids were very young. It has details on who should care for the kids, who should be trustee, and gives a bunch of estate to various people we don't want to anymore. Now that the kids are adults, I want to remove all of that stuff and just simplify it to each kid getting half of everything. Can I just cross out whole sections of the trust and write in the new simple instructions?

Not sure what else the trust was doing, but it sounds like you may not need a trust any longer. Maybe just a will and related POA s.

 

[RetMD21]

The advice I have seen is to have the amendment notarized. It doesn't 100% prevent mischief but it's something. I watched a video about trust administration recently. It can be more complicated than I would have guessed.

 

[dawdmorgan]

Love this forum, but Absolutely don't need a lawyer to amend a trust. Strike out the sentences you want to change, add the new text in a one page admendment and get it notarized. Unless you are cutting out someone who will sue - no problem at ALL! If someone might sue, gat a lawyer$$$

 

[marko]

Love this forum, but Absolutely don't need a lawyer to amend a trust. Strike out the sentences you want to change, add the new text in a one page admendment and get it notarized. Unless you are cutting out someone who will sue - no problem at ALL! If someone might sue, gat a lawyer$$$

What could possibly go wrong.

 

[RetMD21]

It seems like the DIY should work but lacking actual experience I would not be confident. If you change beneficiaries and the successor trustee is on board I can imagine that working fine. OTOH if you change the successor trustee and an institution balks I can imagine that you might need an attorney and possibly a court order.

 

[CaliKid]

The language about if your kids are minors is irrelevant now. It just doesn't matter. I would just ignore it. Most likely the trust says something like "if the kids have reached age 25 (or 30 or whatever) then the assets should be distributed to them free of trust...." It's actually better if it says the assets are distributed to them in trust but most trusts do not provide that for adult beneficiaries.

As for your concern that anybody could change it that is sort of true but that would be fraud among other things. While that has undoubtedly happened it is not common.

Yes, it sounds like your trust is a revocable trust which means it's amendable.

Go to an attorney. Don't be cheap and try to DIY. It's a good way to mess things up. I have seen it countless times in my professional life. I could write a book about what people do to unintentionally mess things up! After so long you probably need a "restatement of trust" which is essentially new documents but retaining the old trust name so you don't have to re-transfer assets.

 

[ychuck46]

If you mean literally mark it up, No, not if you want it to be enforceable. Mark up a copy and give it to a lawyer to redraft.

Exactly. We redid a few portions of our original trust and I believe it cost us $200 or so. Well worth the piece of mind.

 

[ychuck46]

Agree with others who say to feed the lawyer machine. Don't know about other states, but in Florida, marking up a will is likely to invalidate it. Heck, a tear across the writing on the page is enough to invalidate it. It would probably invalidate a Florida will if you sneezed on it too energetically.

We live in TN and while most financial transactions with the state are amazingly simple, the whole will probating process seems intended to do nothing more than drag things out and enrich the law profession. That is the reason why we did a revocable trust. Last year we needed to make a few changes and went back to our lawyer to be sure it was done correctly. Only cost about $200 or so for the peace of mind.

 

[pb4uski]

I did write an amendment to DM's trust using previous amendments that were written by the lawyer who wrote the original trust as a guide. For simple changes, it isn't rocket science. The amendment that I wrote changed the trustees from DM alone to DM, sister and me who were the co-trustees of DF's trust after he died. Under the trust, sister and I would be co-trustees when DM died but we wanted to do it early since DM had a hard time signing documents in her later years due to arthritis in her hand and after the amendment I could more "officially" take the helm managing the trust and it assets.

DM signed it and it was notarized and then we filed the amendment with the other trust documents.

 

[RetMD21]

I did write an amendment to DM's trust using previous amendments that were written by the lawyer who wrote the original trust as a guide. For simple changes, it isn't rocket science. The amendment that I wrote changed the trustees from DM alone to DM, sister and me who were the co-trustees of DF's trust after he died. Under the trust, sister and I would be co-trustees when DM died but we wanted to do it early since DM had a hard time signing documents in her later years due to arthritis in her hand and after the amendment I could more "officially" take the helm managing the trust and it assets.

DM signed it and it was notarized and then we filed the amendment with the other trust documents.

That seems like a low risk amendment if you and your sister are the only beneficiaries.

 

[marko]

If we're talking about a small estate, that's one thing.

But I'm always astounded at the reluctance to spend $1000 on an attorney to insure that a multimillion dollar estate goes smoothly for the heirs with minimal snags and all the T's crossed.

I've seen a few instances where things get hung up for years because uncle John was ignorant or negligent of some technicality. And guess who makes even more money then? The lawyers!

"Oh, cousin Jimmy wouldn't dare contest anything." With a couple mil on the line? Wanna bet?

 

[RetMD21]

You don't get a do over from beyond the grave if you f!@# up. That is what keeps me from DIY.

It always seemed to me that the best way to avoid a claim of undue influence or lack of testamentary capacity would be to have an independent attorney involved.

 

[CaliKid]

If we're talking about a small estate, that's one thing.

But I'm always astounded at the reluctance to spend $1000 on an attorney to insure that a multimillion dollar estate goes smoothly for the heirs with minimal snags and all the T's crossed.

I've seen a few instances where things get hung up for years because uncle John was ignorant or negligent of some technicality. And guess who makes even more money then? The lawyers!

"Oh, cousin Jimmy wouldn't dare contest anything." With a couple mil on the line? Wanna bet?

Even for small estates people need to remember you are taking actions to make it easier for your kids or other loved ones if you are deceased or unable to handle your affairs. In some ways it's even more important for small estates as the attorney fees necessary, for a conservatorship for example, would be proportionally much more for a small estate. Also, each dollar is that much more important in a small estate.

 

[pb4uski]

That seems like a low risk amendment if you and your sister are the only beneficiaries.

There were actually 5 beneficiaries, our 3 other siblings, but we all get along well so I agree it was low risk,