Making alkaline water

[tutan]

I want to drink alkaline water in place of ‘regular’ water for its purported benefit on gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD). I can buy alkaline water in large plastic bottles just like regular filtered water so it’s not cheap and there’s a lot of plastic. A sure way to raise PH is to add baking soda but the taste is not pleasant besides the unwanted extra sodium. So Amazon has these water ionizer machines that sell for $400 and up. Does anyone here have one? What PH levels do you get? There are way cheaper filters and additives but probably don’t work?

 

[GrayHare]

I have wondered about this too, and whether adding minerals like calcium and magnesium to tap water would do the job.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Your stomach has a pH of 1.5-3.5. The pH of what you ingest is far less important than what goes on at your gastroesophageal junction. Do you have a hiatal hernia? Elevated weight and abdominal fat, putting pressure on that GE junction? Do you drink alcohol, which relaxes the GE sphincter, leading to reflux. Do you eat large meals then lay down and sleep? Position matters.

IMO alkaline water is a fad to get you to buy stuff you don't need. It is the anions of the salts of calcium and magnesium that alter the pH, not the Ca++ and Mg++. Most antacids are salts of calcium and magnesium (carbonate, bicarbonate, hydroxide). Their effects last a whopping one hour after ingesting. Alkaline water does far less. If for anything else, your kidneys keep your blood pH at or very near 7.40.

You'll save a lot of money and effort by being skeptical about these fads.

 

[TheWizard]

Add sodium hydroxide to yer water.
That'll make it alkaline...

 

[Koolau]

Add sodium hydroxide to yer water.
That'll make it alkaline...

I'm relatively ignorant of the biochemical realities of alkaline water. However, as a chemist, I can say that alkaline water won't neutralize much stomach acid. If it does (and this is the biochemical/medical stuff) your stomach will likely produce more acid but YMMV.

 

[tutan]

Thank you. I was diagnosed with Barrett’s esophagus a few years back but no more signs in the most recent endoscopy. It was probably due to years of late meals and then going to bed soon after during my working days. Now retired, I eat before 5 pm and most days before 4 with some light snacks later. However I still get the very rare reflux during sleep so I am careful with what I eat. I went to a ENT doctor for having excessive amount of phlegm which I thought might be related to reflux. One thing he recommended and was himself drinking throughout the day was alkaline water. If anything, it tastes pretty good.

 

[CaptTom]

...I went to a ENT doctor for having excessive amount of phlegm which I thought might be related to reflux. One thing he recommended and was himself drinking throughout the day was alkaline water...

I'd probably look for legitimate, peer-reviewed studies on this "treatment." If it's for real, those will include specifics as to what works and doesn't work.

Or, more likely, I'd find another doctor. As we saw during the pandemic, medical professionals are not immune to believing unproven conspiracy theories.

 

[DuluthGA]

Anyone have thoughts on making your own silica water (aka Fiji Water)? supposedly will remove the aluminum from your body and help fight memory loss.

https://www.amazon.com/Silica-Secret-Healthy-Longevity-Aluminum/dp/1727336747?dplnkId=f5b0512e-5ce2-4826-a91f-095df61fc18a&nodl=1

 

[Badger]

Your stomach has a pH of 1.5-3.5. The pH of what you ingest is far less important than what goes on at your gastroesophageal junction. Do you have a hiatal hernia? Elevated weight and abdominal fat, putting pressure on that GE junction? Do you drink alcohol, which relaxes the GE sphincter, leading to reflux. Do you eat large meals then lay down and sleep? Position matters.

IMO alkaline water is a fad to get you to buy stuff you don't need. It is the anions of the salts of calcium and magnesium that alter the pH, not the Ca++ and Mg++. Most antacids are salts of calcium and magnesium (carbonate, bicarbonate, hydroxide). Their effects last a whopping one hour after ingesting. Alkaline water does far less. If for anything else, your kidneys keep your blood pH at or very near 7.40.

You'll save a lot of money and effort by being skeptical about these fads.

+1
Spot on!!! Your Endocrine System is designed to take care of your body chemistry balance. I would find another doctor with a better understanding of Biochemistry for another opinion. You seem to have directed the attention of the EMT doctor to what may be the problem and the response was a quick fix from his testimonial instead of peer review research on the facts. There are no rigorous studies or scientific evidence to support.

 

[pacergal]

Do you sleep with your head slightly elevated? That helps with GERD.
Have you tried omeprazole or similar?
Have you tried the Alkaline water and does it help? I have never used it.

I have GERD, very small hiatal hernia, and Schatzki Ring The best thing I do is not eating late, elevate my head, and daily omeprazole (yes I am aware of long term side effect/risks--but it has prevented the GERD, which keeps the Schatzki ring from being irritated and tightening so I don't develop dysphagia and need to have it dilated--)

 

[tutan]

I am on low dose famotidine. I also have mattress risers. I figure drinking alkaline water is similar to taking antacid. And the effect is proportional to how often you drink it.

 

[ERD50]

I am on low dose famotidine. I also have mattress risers. I figure drinking alkaline water is similar to taking antacid. And the effect is proportional to how often you drink it.

Probably not. I am not a chemist, but as EastWestGal mentioned above, it it the anions of the salts of calcium and magnesium that alter the pH. I'm not sure that "alkaline water" provides this.

Again, mot a chemist, but from what I think I understand from brewing beer is that pH/alkalinity is only part of the story - 'buffering power' is the other. I think it's kind of like the difference between temperature and heat. Twenty tons of rocks heated to 150F could provide a lot of warmth to your home, even though they are just 150 F. A match could reach 1000F, a very high temperature, but no noticeable heat for your house.

pH and buffering is something like that, I think. Just saying it is 'alkaline' isn't telling you much. Maybe RPM and Horsepower could be used as another analogy.

 

[ERD50]

But this study (I only seem to have access to the abstract), indicates that alkaline water @ 8.8 pH water may have benefits. It appears this was just a lab test of the water and acids in test tubes, not a human study. They mention buffering, but I didn't see any numbers.

And also, that this "its hydrochloric acid-buffering capacity far exceeded that of the conventional-pH waters."

Potential benefits of pH 8.8 alkaline drinking water as an adjunct in the treatment of reflux disease - PubMed

Unlike conventional drinking water, pH 8.8 alkaline water instantly denatures pepsin, rendering it permanently inactive. In addition, it has good acid-buffering capacity. Thus, the consumption of alkaline water may have therapeutic benefits for patients with reflux disease.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Conclusions: Unlike conventional drinking water, pH 8.8 alkaline water instantly denatures pepsin, rendering it permanently inactive. In addition, it has good acid-buffering capacity. Thus, the consumption of alkaline water may have therapeutic benefits for patients with reflux disease.

 

[sengsational]

I had heard of alkaline water and thought it had to be BS, but didn't take the time to research much. I got C's in chemistry, but had hands-on with the Bru'n water calculator and didn't see how the subtle pH change in the alkaline water could impact significantly over just a touch of an appropriate mineral salt.

But the study above suggests a mechanism of action I had not considered. It would be interesting to see what it does in humans vs the test tube.

I wonder if this process of denatured pepsin occurs with water treated to a similar pH with mineral salts.

Another reason not to dismiss it out-of-hand is it's one of the things Ray Kurzweil mentions in his writings. Ray Kurzweil Talks About Alkaline Water – Water Library

Although water mixed with bicarbonate is indeed alkaline, it does not have a negative ORP; rather it has a positive ORP, meaning that it is unable to neutralize dangerous oxygen free radicals. Alkaline water produced by running tap water through an electrolysis machine does have a high negative ORP, meaning that it does have the ability to neutralize oxygen free radicals. We have confirmed these ORP measurements through our direct tests.

 

[Koolau]

I had heard of alkaline water and thought it had to be BS, but didn't take the time to research much. I got C's in chemistry, but had hands-on with the Bru'n water calculator and didn't see how the subtle pH change in the alkaline water could impact significantly over just a touch of an appropriate mineral salt.

But the study above suggests a mechanism of action I had not considered. It would be interesting to see what it does in humans vs the test tube.

I wonder if this process of denatured pepsin occurs with water treated to a similar pH with mineral salts.

Another reason not to dismiss it out-of-hand is (I think) it's one of the things Ray Kurzweil mentions in his writings.

Yeah, I was thinking of it as a "neutralizing" agent for the stomach acid. My thought was that it would take a lot of alkaline water to do that. Instead, I guess the theory is that the alkaline water deactivates pepsin which is a real culprit in damaging esophageal tissues. Also, there is (apparently) evidence that stomach contents can go further than the lower esophagus - even into the larynx, nasal passages and inner ear. See attached article. Apparently, the stomach contents (including pepsin) can be aerosolized! Who knew?

At least now I know why DW's doc prescribed PPI's for her night caughing.

No idea if the alkaline water actually IS effective, but it now makes more sense. Clearly, YMMV

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3216344/

 

[GrayHare]

FWIW, drinking a liter of a mineral water such as Evian will commonly increase urine pH.

 

[ERD50]

Yeah, I was thinking of it as a "neutralizing" agent for the stomach acid. My thought was that it would take a lot of alkaline water to do that. Instead, I guess the theory is that the alkaline water deactivates pepsin which is a real culprit in damaging esophageal tissues. ....

I'll do some more searching later, but I'm wondering if gargling with something with some medicinal benefit could help with the effects on the esophagus?

 

[Koolau]

FWIW, drinking a liter of a mineral water such as Evian will commonly increase urine pH.

I take calcium, magnesium and zinc as daily supplements. Also tap water is often "harder" (containing more dissolved solids - 250 ppm required to be called "mineral water") than bottled mineral water.

Here is an article on mineral water effects on urine and stone formation potential. It doesn't appear to be definitive, but suggestive (if I read it correctly) of stone prevention. As always, YMMV.

Influence of a mineral water rich in calcium, magnesium and bicarbonate on urine composition and the risk of calcium oxalate crystallization - PubMed

The magnesium and bicarbonate content of the mineral water resulted in favorable changes in urinary pH, magnesium and citrate excretion, inhibitors of calcium oxalate stone formation, counterbalancing increased calcium excretion. Since urinary oxalate excretion did not diminish, further studies...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Koolau]

I'll do some more searching later, but I'm wondering if gargling with something with some medicinal benefit could help with the effects on the esophagus?

No idea on that one, but it would seem to make sense. I'm still blown away about the concept of aerosolized stomach contents getting as far as the throat, nasal passages and inner ear! Yuk. (Burp! Er, excuse me.)

 

[usafmd]

You'll save a lot of money and effort by being skeptical about these fads.

Spot on. I wonder where these bizarre ideas get started. Hopefully asking an AI engine in the future will give better advice, at least ask for a study supporting this idea. [Give up alcohol if the OP is really concerned.]

 

[jrendt]

I want to drink alkaline water in place of ‘regular’ water for its purported benefit on gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD). I can buy alkaline water in large plastic bottles just like regular filtered water so it’s not cheap and there’s a lot of plastic. A sure way to raise PH is to add baking soda but the taste is not pleasant besides the unwanted extra sodium. So Amazon has these water ionizer machines that sell for $400 and up. Does anyone here have one? What PH levels do you get? There are way cheaper filters and additives but probably don’t work?

I've had GERD most of my life. I find tums and famotidine work, but I didnt want to take them all the time. What I found helped was a wedge pillow. Eating earlier and not having as much alcohol helps too.

 

[JoeWras]

As I mentioned in my water heater thread, my city pumps out alkaline water as a matter of course. The pH is 8.4. This information, along with many other parameters, is public information and published monthly.

 

[tutan]

As I mentioned in my water heater thread, my city pumps out alkaline water as a matter of course. The pH is 8.4. This information, along with many other parameters, is public information and published monthly.

Thanks. I just looked. I don’t find PH in my provider’s annual water quality report. But I remember checking the water to be about PH neutral.

 

[JoeWras]

Below is what we get. They forgot to check for "organic matter smells" because a month ago, our water smelled like an aquarium. They said it was an algae bloom, and they would add some extra gee-wiz filtration. Frankly, I was not impressed that this happened, and it has destroyed my confidence in my city's water supply management.

I have to say one should never, ever try to make instant oatmeal with "aquarium water". It was the most vile thing I've ever tasted.

 

[tutan]

I've had GERD most of my life. I find tums and famotidine work, but I didnt want to take them all the time. What I found helped was a wedge pillow. Eating earlier and not having as much alcohol helps too.

That’s a good approach. I have cut down on famotidine dosage as it (and PPIs) is linked to affecting kidney function.