Maybe there is hope for the future.

[Koolau]

They’re also paying our Social Security and Medicare. At least for now ..

Heh, heh and some of 'em will change our Depends!

 

[GaryInCO]

I have two kids: a 29-yr-old son and a 27-yr-old daughter. My son is pretty self-sufficient. He never managed to do college, but he found himself a great job at a local engineering firm. I gifted him the down payment for his first house, and he's done an exceptional job of caring for it, upgrading it, etc. He's honestly a better homeowner than me.

My daughter is more challenging. It's frustrating because she's extremely intelligent, but she has no self-management. It doesn't help that she has mild autism, and that she's trans. She's held a couple of jobs (retail &etc) but never more than a couple of months. It's hella hard to find a job when you have no marketable skills and almost no employment history. For now she's living with me, but I hope I can nudge her out of the nest eventually. But if I kicked her out now, she would be living under a bridge. I don't know what else to do.

 

[Koolau]

I have two kids: a 29-yr-old son and a 27-yr-old daughter. My son is pretty self-sufficient. He never managed to do college, but he found himself a great job at a local engineering firm. I gifted him the down payment for his first house, and he's done an exceptional job of caring for it, upgrading it, etc. He's honestly a better homeowner than me.

My daughter is more challenging. It's frustrating because she's extremely intelligent, but she has no self-management. It doesn't help that she has mild autism, and that she's trans. She's held a couple of jobs (retail &etc) but never more than a couple of months. It's hella hard to find a job when you have no marketable skills and almost no employment history. For now she's living with me, but I hope I can nudge her out of the nest eventually. But if I kicked her out now, she would be living under a bridge. I don't know what else to do.

I'm guessing you've already enlisted professional help for your daughter. All the best going forward. I hope you reach a good outcome. Blessings.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I have two kids: a 29-yr-old son and a 27-yr-old daughter. My son is pretty self-sufficient. He never managed to do college, but he found himself a great job at a local engineering firm. I gifted him the down payment for his first house, and he's done an exceptional job of caring for it, upgrading it, etc. He's honestly a better homeowner than me.

My daughter is more challenging. It's frustrating because she's extremely intelligent, but she has no self-management. It doesn't help that she has mild autism, and that she's trans. She's held a couple of jobs (retail &etc) but never more than a couple of months. It's hella hard to find a job when you have no marketable skills and almost no employment history. For now she's living with me, but I hope I can nudge her out of the nest eventually. But if I kicked her out now, she would be living under a bridge. I don't know what else to do.

Since your daughter has a disability you should make an appointment at your local department or bureau of Vocational Rehabilitation. It’s a state agency that is funded 83% by the federal government and the rest by the state.

They help people with disabilities obtain and maintain employment. They can also help with job training, college, a job coach until the person learns the job and many other support services. I worked for 20 years in this department.

 

[marko]

While I appreciate the sentiment, I'll take a different (and likely controversial) tack. IMO, there's more to "hope for the future" than kids eating $0.65 breakfasts and saving to the point of near obsession. That's our "hope"?

If you're scrimping because you're under-employed, that's one thing.

But I'd hesitate to applaud someone at age 24 depriving herself of some of the really good things in life: international travel, dining at nice places, concerts, cocktails with friends, whatever in order to then live a similar super frugal lifestyle at age 40 just so that you don't have to go to work. Just sounds sad to me.

Two of my young nieces are very well paid and think nothing of flying off somewhere for a long weekend. Almost every long weekend. Yes, they enjoy their jobs, and yes, they are saving for retirement and yes, they will be the ones paying our SS in the future (and picking out our nursing home). But I do believe they have a much better balance of living life and preparing for the future.

Rather than living like a monk in order to avoid answering to the man at age 40, I'd suggest that at age 24, go find a job that's enjoyable, set a goal of retirement maybe just a tad later and get the most out of living. YOLO.

Sure wish I could go back to age 24!

 

[FlaGator]

While I appreciate the sentiment, I'll take a different (and likely controversial) tack. IMO, there's more to "hope for the future" than kids eating $0.65 breakfasts and saving to the point of near obsession. That's our "hope"?

If you're scrimping because you're under-employed, that's one thing.

But I'd hesitate to applaud someone at age 24 depriving herself of some of the really good things in life: international travel, dining at nice places, concerts, cocktails with friends, whatever in order to then live a similar super frugal lifestyle at age 40 just so that you don't have to go to work. Just sounds sad to me.

Two of my young nieces are very well paid and think nothing of flying off somewhere for a long weekend. Almost every long weekend. Yes, they enjoy their jobs, and yes, they are saving for retirement and yes, they will be the ones paying our SS in the future (and picking out our nursing home). But I do believe they have a much better balance of living life and preparing for the future.

Rather than living like a monk in order to avoid answering to the man at age 40, I'd suggest that at age 24, go find a job that's enjoyable, set a goal of retirement maybe just a tad later and get the most out of living. YOLO.

Sure wish I could go back to age 24!

As I tell my 24/21 YO kids, this is the time to have fun, take risks, and do stupid things (but not criminal). Doing those things is what makes one "experienced" and better to learn those lessons in your 20's than later.

Very fortunate that they're good savers, investing, and haven't need a bailout.

 

[Koolau]

I think the "trick" is to set goals and understand the costs of those goals. It's okay to w*rk diligently toward early Financial Independence and it's okay to have lots of experiences while you're young. You just need to understand the "cost" of each of those (and any other) life style.

Don't eat the $0.65 breakfast and complain that you're deprived and don't take 3 trips a year to far flung places and then complain that you can't pay your rent. Count the cost of your goals and make them happen with eyes wide open. No right or wrong in the setting of goals. Achieving the goals means you make compromises. Be certain the goals are worth the compromise.

Stepping down now from my soap box.

 

[ModestNestEgg]

"24-year-old eats a 65-cent breakfast every day, skips salon visits and has saved $90K—she’s part of Gen Z’s FIRE movement and plans to retire by 40"

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/24-old-eats-65-cent-092801217.html

This young woman seems to be off to a good start on her FIRE journey. Notwithstanding the way it sometimes seems, there are young people who are getting the message. I wish her well.

I wish her well too, and I do think it's worth pointing out that $90K in savings for a 24 year old is atypical given that's not at all a long time to amass that much money without having an unusually lucrative and high paying career far earlier than most at that point in her life.

My caution on this type of example is that people often see these unusually successful situations and think, "there's no way I could have that much saved, so what's the point."
Had she only had $9,000 or even $900 with no debt that would have indicated financial success as well even if it wasn't to quite the same degree.

 

[Koolau]

I wish her well too, and I do think it's worth pointing out that $90K in savings for a 24 year old is atypical given that's not at all a long time to amass that much money without having an unusually lucrative and high paying career far earlier than most at that point in her life.

My caution on this type of example is that people often see these unusually successful situations and think, "there's no way I could have that much saved, so what's the point."
Had she only had $9,000 or even $900 with no debt that would have indicated financial success as well even if it wasn't to quite the same degree.

Yeah, I was in "car" debt at 24, so she's way ahead of me and then some!

 

[marko]

I wish her well too, and I do think it's worth pointing out that $90K in savings for a 24 year old is atypical given that's not at all a long time to amass that much money without having an unusually lucrative and high paying career far earlier than most at that point in her life.

My caution on this type of example is that people often see these unusually successful situations and think, "there's no way I could have that much saved, so what's the point."
Had she only had $9,000 or even $900 with no debt that would have indicated financial success as well even if it wasn't to quite the same degree.

You're right. As you say, this sort of example can discourage less obsessive savers. "Gee, I'm 27 and only have 35k in my 401k."

I'm sensitive to this sort of thing as DWs best friend who, at age 67, is worth over $5MM, lives alone in an attic apartment where you can only stand up in the middle of the room and watches a 15 inch TV, driving a 20 year old car. She could've been the aforementioned subject 40 years ago. She knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

This is the sad endpoint I envision for our 24 year old example.

 

[Koolau]

You're right. As you say, this sort of example can discourage less obsessive savers. "Gee, I'm 27 and only have 35k in my 401k."

I'm sensitive to this sort of thing as DWs best friend who, at age 67, is worth over $5MM, lives alone in an attic apartment where you can only stand up in the middle of the room and watches a 15 inch TV, driving a 20 year old car. She could've been the aforementioned subject 40 years ago. She knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

This is the sad endpoint I envision for our 24 year old example.

But, the real question is "Is she contented/happy?" If so, then her spending (or lack of it) may be a moot point. If she feels deprived, then it is self-induced and is toxic behavior.

I sometimes "deprive" myself of comforts or small/large luxuries, but I do not feel "deprived." My big sis grew up in the same household but ALWAYS feels deprived. She always did feel deprived. I never really did though we had just enough to survive growing up.

Attitude (with a bit of gratitude) goes a long way in how we perceive our lives. I'd rather be happy than rich. Happy AND rich is even better. (I'm talking about FIRE Forum rich, here, not Musk, Bezos, Gates rich).

 

[marko]

But, the real question is "Is she contented/happy?" If so, then her spending (or lack of it) may be a moot point. If she feels deprived, then it is self-induced and is toxic behavior.

Well, let me get a little philosophical for a minute.
I've often mentioned my notoriously stingy grandfather. He was pulling in about $60K a month.

He fell down and broke his hip in his basement. He dragged himself across the floor in great pain, pulled the phone off the wall and called ME. "Why didn't you push the LifeLine button?" "Well, I would have if you weren't home but it was a 35 cent long distance call to call them".

After he came home from his hip replacement, we begged him to install a stair lift so he could get upstairs in his large home. Nope! At 88 years old, he 'climbed' the stairs up and down on his bum.
For him, he wasn't depriving himself because spending a few thousand on a lift was not an option. It's not like "I could have this but I'll do without", it is more about not spending the money.

DW offered to buy a larger $400 TV for her friend. She refused because "a bigger one will use more electricity."

People with this type of mindset are happy because in their mind they're not depriving themselves. Saving money is the most important thing.

It's a bit of a sickness IMO and just as toxic.

Just as we might not consider ourselves deprived by not buying a private jet, some people will forgo even the smallest comforts and conveniences because saving money overrides everything else. Spending money becomes the deprivation.

 

[Koolau]

Well, let me get a little philosophical for a minute.
I've often mentioned my notoriously stingy grandfather. He was pulling in about $60K a month.

He fell down and broke his hip in his basement. He dragged himself across the floor in great pain, pulled the phone off the wall and called ME. "Why didn't you push the LifeLine button?" "Well, I would have if you weren't home but it was a 35 cent long distance call to call them".

After he came home from his hip replacement, we begged him to install a stair lift so he could get upstairs in his large home. Nope! At 88 years old, he 'climbed' the stairs up and down on his bum.
For him, he wasn't depriving himself because spending a few thousand on a lift was not an option. It's not like "I could have this but I'll do without", it is more about not spending the money.

DW offered to buy a larger $400 TV for her friend. She refused because "a bigger one will use more electricity."

People with this type of mindset are happy because in their mind they're not depriving themselves. Saving money is the most important thing.

t's a bit of a sickness IMO and just as toxic.

Just as we might not consider ourselves deprived by not buying a private jet, some people will forgo even the smallest comforts and conveniences because saving money overrides everything else. Spending money becomes the deprivation.

Thanks for sharing those stories. I've caught myself being overly frugal a few times and then forced myself to "spend" as an act of will against not only my upbringing (parents were in abject poverty during the depression) and by my learned behavior as I sought Financial Independence above virtually all other goals.

Frugality can become its own goal and can be one's master instead of one's servant. When that happens, frugality is toxic.

Heh, heh, I can't even imagine bringing in $60K/month. I think that would be toxic to me!