Mileage and weight based road taxes.

[Chuckanut]

There is an idea to eventually use some type of geolocation device to handle out of state driving. But, that immediately brings up privacy issues.

 

[MC Rider]

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

 

[jazz4cash]

You may also want to consider how parking eliminates opportunities for active transportation space (a bike lane vs a parking space) when you see a bike lane being installed and street parking space being ignored which could have been used for the same purpose.

I was thinking about this last week driving through my old ‘hood. They have made great effort to install bike lanes. In some cases replacing a travel lane. Some bike lanes have proper curbs to isolate them but most are really tacky plastic pipes stuck to the asphalt and faded color coded asphalt markings. It’s a real eyesore IMO. I would not complain except for the fact that almost no-one is using them.

 

[Qs Laptop]

I got a different answer:

So the Tesla is 16-17% heavier according to these sources vs 13% from what you said. In any event, 16-17% more weight or even 13% is significantly more.

Toyota no longer manufactures Camry's that are ICE vehicles.

 

[pb4uski]

So you were not really comparing ICE weight to EV weight in your previous post it seems.

 

[savory]

I was thinking about this last week driving through my old ‘hood. They have made great effort to install bike lanes. In some cases replacing a travel lane. Some bike lanes have proper curbs to isolate them but most are really tacky plastic pipes stuck to the asphalt and faded color coded asphalt markings. It’s a real eyesore IMO. I would not complain except for the fact that almost no-one is using them.

A few thoughts when evaluating bike lane use. Look to see if the protected bike lane ends and what happens to the street at that point. Unlike motor vehicle infrastructure, most if not all bike infrastructure is built in pieces. Most people fear sharing a car lane while biking. Unless it is protected in all directions and to useful locations, they will be under utilized.

When bike lanes don’t exist, I purposely try to bike on residential streets with limited motor traffic. I suppose I could conclude it’s not a useful street for motor vehicles since the vehicles I see are parked. Use of streets can be relative.

The ugly yellow poles are appreciated by those of us who are not willing to share a lane with a motorist even if it only provides relief for a limited distance. It’s done as a quick and inexpensive first step typically.

In my city, you will see tons of cyclists on our trails that go for miles in many directions. And for open street events that close streets to motorists. However, the vast majority drive to a trail head. I expect their drive from home is under 2 miles, a fairly easy biking distance. These are people who love to bike but are afraid to share the road with cars.

Research suggests, they will bike on roads when a network of protected bike lanes and safe infrastructure are introduced. However, many people evaluating the use of roads by cyclists do not consider ( or are aware) of this group who would be converted to street commuters if they felt safe.

 

[CaptTom]

However, many people evaluating the use of roads by cyclists do not consider ( or are aware) of this group who would be converted to street commuters if they felt safe.

... and if it's not raining. Or snowing. Or around here, during the 6-9 months of the year when bicycling is either impossible or very uncomfortable.

I'd love to see more options for bicycles. The problem is, our towns and cities were built back when horses were the main form of transportation. Then those old street layouts were forced to accommodate cars. In many places, there's just no room for more lanes. Taking away car lanes only makes traffic worse. Even if you were to make separate bike lanes, it becomes a mess at every intersection, driveway or anyplace traffic is turning on or off the road.

Yeah, I know. The solution (according to the bikers) is to eliminate cars. Unfortunately the entire US is built around cars as the primary transportation mode. Commuters need a way to get to work, residents need a way to go shopping and families want to pack up and go on vacation, all in any weather.

 

[Qs Laptop]

So you were not really comparing ICE weight to EV weight in your previous post it seems.

I was comparing the most popular four door sedan EV (Tesla model 3) with the most popular four door sedan with a gas engine (Toyota Camry) which are all hybrids now, not pure EV's.

Here are some popular four door sedans (ICE) and their weights:

Hyundai Sonata 3,305 lbs.
Dodge Charger 3,964
Audi A4 3,638
Honda Accord 3,239

Considering the most popular ICE vehicles nowadays are either SUV's or pickup trucks--which weigh more than most EV's--this idea that EV's are heavier and will "wear out" the road faster seems like a trivial argument.

 

[ncbill]

Passenger vehicles (6,000 lbs & under) simply do not matter.

Commercial vehicles (@ tens of thousands of lbs) are the ones causing road damage.

The correct solution would be to tax those heavily to account for the actual wear & tear they cause.

But somehow we want to punish hybrids or pure EVs for being just a little bit heavier...

 

[ls99]

In PA the state obtaining annual mileage info is easy.
All motor vehicles including motorcycles require annual safety inspections. As part of the inspection Odometer info is collected and transmitted to DMV, before an isnpection sticker can be issued.

 

[savory]

... and if it's not raining. Or snowing. Or around here, during the 6-9 months of the year when bicycling is either impossible or very uncomfortable.

I'd love to see more options for bicycles. The problem is, our towns and cities were built back when horses were the main form of transportation. Then those old street layouts were forced to accommodate cars. In many places, there's just no room for more lanes. Taking away car lanes only makes traffic worse. Even if you were to make separate bike lanes, it becomes a mess at every intersection, driveway or anyplace traffic is turning on or off the road.

Yeah, I know. The solution (according to the bikers) is to eliminate cars. Unfortunately the entire US is built around cars as the primary transportation mode. Commuters need a way to get to work, residents need a way to go shopping and families want to pack up and go on vacation, all in any weather.

Just some fun facts. Going back to the horses, among and perhaps the first paved road requested in the States was from the owner of Columbia bicycles, I believe in Massachusetts. His customer were not happy with the dirt roads. Sometime in late 20s, the J walking law was implemented when frustrated motorists wanted better access to the streets. It wasn't really a problem. This may have been the beginning of the end for pedestrians in many places. Thanks for sharing your views on motor vehicles and active transportation.

 

[marko]

I agree that we need to level the playing field so that gas and hybrids and EVs each pay for their share of wear and tear of the roads. Electricity had a similiar transition when solar came along and so now we pay for being connected to the grid separatey from electricity used. Same principle IMO.

The concern that I have as a snowbird is that only 1/2 of my miles are in my home state and 1/2 in another, yet my home state where my truck is registered.would get all of what I pay. Maybe that is just the way it needs to be.

Also, I guess in theory that EVs create more wear and tear since they are heavier.

One of the more popular sports here in Mass is to register your car in New Hampshire or Florida where your second home is. Not really legal unless you follow the 181 day residency regs, but X% in my neighborhood are "Florida" cars.

Side note:
Reverse snobbery: Had lunch with my old boss in Palm Beach. He pulled up in a new $400k Rolls with....Mass plates. "Yeah, this is our Florida car". The guy deliberately pays higher Mass taxes and fees for the car he leaves in another state! It's OK, he has another one back home.

 

[Chuckanut]

Toyota no longer manufactures Camry's that are ICE vehicles.

I believe all Camry's sold in the USA are hybrids, which do contain an internal combustion engine. Is there a plug-in hybrid Camry? I don't know. But, a 2025 Camry is certainly closer to an ICE vehicle that a full EV, IMO.