Military pension question

[ExFlyBoy5]

Some of the posts seem to be confusing two different situations:


2. If a retiree divorces, his/her retirement check is considered to be community property and, as part of the divorce settlement, up to 50% of the retirement may be awarded to the divorced spouse. This is all part of the divorce decree - I've had friends who had to give up 50% of their retirement; others have "bought out" the spouse by paying a lump sum to have him/her not put a claim on the retirement.

This is HIGHLY dependent on jurisdiction and not ALWAYS the case...so if in doubt, contact an attorney who is versed in this area of the law.

 

[Texas Proud]

Some of the posts seem to be confusing two different situations:

1. SBP is elected or rejected by the retiree at the time of retirement. (The spouse must concur if the service member rejects it.) Retiree pays (I think) 6% of a "base amount" and if the retiree predeceases the spouse, the spouse gets 55%, inflation adjusted annually, of the base amount. The base amount can be up to the total amount of retirement pay or it can be less. If the spouse predeceases the retiree, the payments cease but nothing is returned to the retiree. If the retiree subsequently remarries, s/he can cover the new spouse but must repay Uncle Sam the premium for the time between the death of the first spouse and the beginning of coverage on the new spouse.
2. If a retiree divorces, his/her retirement check is considered to be community property and, as part of the divorce settlement, up to 50% of the retirement may be awarded to the divorced spouse. This is all part of the divorce decree - I've had friends who had to give up 50% of their retirement; others have "bought out" the spouse by paying a lump sum to have him/her not put a claim on the retirement.

My only point here is: don't confuse SBP with divorce settlements.

Thanks... that is kinda what I was thinking from the posts... if she is to get something he needs to give up something...

And I have told her she needs to look at the divorce decree to see what is his legal obligation.... do not take his word for it.... (unless of course you do not care about the pension)

This is HIGHLY dependent on jurisdiction and not ALWAYS the case...so if in doubt, contact an attorney who is versed in this area of the law.

Yes, which is why I told her to look at the decree... who knows what was agreed to....

 

[friar1610]

This is HIGHLY dependent on jurisdiction and not ALWAYS the case...so if in doubt, contact an attorney who is versed in this area of the law.

Point taken. I'm not current on this (and, thank God, have never needed to be) but is there not also federal legislation that prevents a military retiree from divorcing a spouse after retirement and retaining 100% of the pension?

 

[wrigley]

Point taken. I'm not current on this (and, thank God, have never needed to be) but is there not also federal legislation that prevents a military retiree from divorcing a spouse after retirement and retaining 100% of the pension?

I've never herd of something like that. The 50% rule of the pension usually is based on the amount of years the couple is married while serving in the military. Rule of thumb that I have seen is 10 years. If my wife was married to me for 10 years while I served she is entitled (she must make it a part of the divorce decree. it's not automatic) to 50% of my military pension and she keeps getting that as long as she doesn't remarry or until I croak.

Mike

 

[griffithee]

Hmmm...a colonel needs to have a bachelor degree, so if he started at age 18 he had to have been enlisted first.

So thirty plus years is certainly conceivable. A prior enlisted retired O6 would be making bank.

 

[alaska55]

This is HIGHLY dependent on jurisdiction and not ALWAYS the case...so if in doubt, contact an attorney who is versed in this area of the law.

I they were married at least 10 years, and she wants her legal share of it, she's going to get it. If she was married close to the whole time(20 years+) he was in she going to get 50%. Another item is SBP.

How SBP Works
At retirement, full basic SBP for spouse and children will take effect automatically if you make no other valid election. You may not reduce or decline spouse coverage without your spouse's written consent. This means you will have to have your spouses input in the decision and his or her signature is required. You may choose coverage for a former spouse or, if you have no spouse or children, you may be able to cover an "insurable interest" (such as, a business partner or parent).

 

[alaska55]

Here's a article on retired pay and divorce. The state law can't override the military's Uniformed Services Former Spouses' Protection Act. She has to sign away her rights to it.

http://www.military.com/money/retir...nt/understanding-divorce-in-the-military.html

 

[wrigley]

So thirty plus years is certainly conceivable. A prior enlisted retired O6 would be making bank.

And throw in a large percentage of VA service connected disability.........the bank grows tax free even more!

Mike

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I they were married at least 10 years, and she wants her legal share of it, she's going to get it. If she was married close to the whole time(20 years+) he was in she going to get 50%.

Again, this is a blanket statement that may or MAY NOT be true, depending on jurisdiction...I am not arguing, this is a simple FACT.

A lot of people love to throw around the '10 years/50%' correlation. The ONLY one thing that happens at the 10 year point is DFAS will withhold any court ordered payment for an ex-spouse and will do so without the permission of the retired member. Any less than 10 years, DFAS will not withhold this amount without the approval of the retired member. A court could very well award 50% of the retirement to an ex spouse, even if married less than 10 years...I have seen it happen on several occasions. I have also seen where folks were married more than 10 years and the ex spouse didn't get any of the retirement. If there were hard and fast rules, the you wouldn't have to have a judge figure stuff out.

 

[mickeyd]

The question is if she marries him can she get any of his pension if he dies?

My q is, what did the retired O-6 say when she asked him this Q? My advice to her? Just enjoy the sex and don't worry about his cash.

 

[Texas Proud]

My q is, what did the retired O-6 say when she asked him this Q? My advice to her? Just enjoy the sex and don't worry about his cash.

That is what she is doing now.... but he is pushing to get married... I think he wants to save money by filing joint with dependents...

But she wants to go in with her eyes open.... she just got divorced from someone who racked up a huge amount of debt and was putting some in her name without her knowledge... so she is not just going to take someones word for something....

 

[braumeister]

Wow! And his last marriage only lasted a matter of months?

This is not looking good.

 

[Texas Proud]

Wow! And his last marriage only lasted a matter of months?

This is not looking good.

That is what I said....

 

[nash031]

This thread reminds me of a former co-worker, GS-13, retired O-5 collecting pension. Three previous wives, kids by one of them, married for the fourth time when I worked with him. Mid-fifties, forking over quite a bit of his pension to exes, not much savings to speak of. Wife #4 sells t-shirts via cafepress (not lucratively). Bought a Z07 Corvette.

He can't seem to break his own cycle of bad financial decisions and may have to work forever...

 

[Bigdawg]

Do you recommend this path?

I recommend getting a free education via one of the service academies or ROTC. If you cannot go that route then yes. Enlist in a filed you are interested in (Aircraft Maint for me), excel in that field, take college courses (the military pays) while you are serving and try to get picked up for one of the many commissioning programs.

 

[Bigdawg]

Not correct. If former spouse marries or signs away her SBP, the new spouse is eligible. See link in my post above.

I stand corrected and did not know that. Since my DW and I both declined SBP I guess we cold get divorced, then remarry and sign up for SBP.

 

[ncbill]

I recommend getting a free education via one of the service academies or ROTC.

Absolutely!

Oldest kid spent a year at our local university on a ROTC scholarship then re-applied and is now at their choice of service academy.

Youngest has an overnight visit at their preferred (different) service academy this week, with ROTC applications already submitted as backup, along with other scholarship applications.

 

[Texas Proud]

This thread reminds me of a former co-worker, GS-13, retired O-5 collecting pension. Three previous wives, kids by one of them, married for the fourth time when I worked with him. Mid-fifties, forking over quite a bit of his pension to exes, not much savings to speak of. Wife #4 sells t-shirts via cafepress (not lucratively). Bought a Z07 Corvette.

He can't seem to break his own cycle of bad financial decisions and may have to work forever...

Yea, I kinda mentioned this to DWs friend... as she said, his tax return is 'naked'.... IOW, all he had was salary and pension!!! No other income at all...

 

[nash031]

Yea, I kinda mentioned this to DWs friend... as she said, his tax return is 'naked'.... IOW, all he had was salary and pension!!! No other income at all...

It's amazing how many military folks don't understand that their pension probably isn't going to be enough to sustain their preferred lifestyle. Another friend retired as an O4 after 22 years. He was married with a son, wife made about $200K/yr and he was planning to not work. She put the kibosh on that, so he has a job now... and then they just got divorced. I was surprised to learn he had less than $100,000 in his personal savings after a 22 year career. His pension will get him around $50k/yr with COLA, so nothing to sneeze at, but quite a haircut from the $350K he and his ex were bringing in together.

I talk to him occasionally about my plan to possibly fully retire in a couple of years at my 20, and not take another job. He always tells me, "Dude, you can't live in CA on your pension." I've always answered, "I know." and kind of left it at that.

Sadly, his story is similar to a lot of other co-workers of mine. They lean on the knowledge that they'll get a pension, and don't worry much about savings and end up working much longer than they should have to.

 

[MarieIG]

My son is young military. I have hounded him until I'm blue in the face and luckily he has been funding his Roth since 18, and now has started funding the TSP. (I told him since he's young go for the stock fund). His bride is a lovely young woman. I don't know if he will stay in long enough to get a pension as he does not like to be away from his bride.

 

[friar1610]

I've never herd of something like that. The 50% rule of the pension usually is based on the amount of years the couple is married while serving in the military. Rule of thumb that I have seen is 10 years. If my wife was married to me for 10 years while I served she is entitled (she must make it a part of the divorce decree. it's not automatic) to 50% of my military pension and she keeps getting that as long as she doesn't remarry or until I croak.

Mike

The Federal legislation to which I referred is the Uniformed Services Former Spouses Protection Act. I think you and I are essentially saying the same thing.

 

[ivinsfan]

Here's the link & an excerpt with the rule. Bottom line is that only one spouse can receive a survivor's benefit.

"If the veteran elects to cover a former spouse, a current spouse is ineligible to receive SBP."

Survivor Benefit Plan (SBP) – VA.ORG

Regarding the amount, $100k in retired pay is quite high but possible. An O-6 with 30yrs service under the old retirement system would receive $102k/yr retirement pay.

A friends sister married this exact man, and no soup for her and the dude has a good percentage of his pension going to said ex wife.

 

[ivinsfan]

That is what she is doing now.... but he is pushing to get married... I think he wants to save money by filing joint with dependents...

But she wants to go in with her eyes open.... she just got divorced from someone who racked up a huge amount of debt and was putting some in her name without her knowledge... so she is not just going to take someones word for something....

She would seriously consider marrying someone who is pushing it to save on taxes? Who are the dependents? Not only would I not marry him, I'd dump his A@@..

 

[Huston55]

Here's the link & an excerpt with the rule. Bottom line is that only one spouse can receive a survivor's benefit.

"If the veteran elects to cover a former spouse, a current spouse is ineligible to receive SBP."

Survivor Benefit Plan (SBP) – VA.ORG

Regarding the amount, $100k in retired pay is quite high but possible. An O-6 with 30yrs service under the old retirement system would receive $102k/yr retirement pay.

A friends sister married this exact man, and no soup for her and the dude has a good percentage of his pension going to said ex wife.

As noted by another member above, “sharing” a pension & receiving “SBP” are two different things. In the first case, the “Dude” still abides & shares the pension. In the second case, the “Dude” no longer abides & the eligible beneficiary gets the survivor’s benefit

 

[BLS53]

Again, this is a blanket statement that may or MAY NOT be true, depending on jurisdiction...I am not arguing, this is a simple FACT.

A lot of people love to throw around the '10 years/50%' correlation. The ONLY one thing that happens at the 10 year point is DFAS will withhold any court ordered payment for an ex-spouse and will do so without the permission of the retired member. Any less than 10 years, DFAS will not withhold this amount without the approval of the retired member. A court could very well award 50% of the retirement to an ex spouse, even if married less than 10 years...I have seen it happen on several occasions. I have also seen where folks were married more than 10 years and the ex spouse didn't get any of the retirement. If there were hard and fast rules, the you wouldn't have to have a judge figure stuff out.

I think it has more to do with the ex-spouse, and their motivation. Most of these provisions of the law require a knowledgeable attorney and a judge to sign off on them. I'm sure a vindictive ex could manipulate these laws to the extreme, while a more passive ex may well leave easy money on the table.

At any rate, DFAS won't do anything without a court order. One just can't quote the 10 year/50% law, and expect DFAS to start sending them money.