Mixed Doubles Pickleball Etiquette?

[Midpack]

Could be interesting here, though I don’t have good answers. I play 3 times/week and really enjoy it. 2 days/week is with friends, but once a week we’ve been playing Active Aces 55+ open play with 16-24 people, some we’ve seen before but others not. That’s where etiquette is a puzzle. I’d like everyone to enjoy themselves as much as possible. However there is supposed to be some element of competition as well, otherwise there’s no point IMO.

I’m just an average player, but not a beginner. Yesterday I inadvertently hit the ball about chest high with more pace than intended at a woman I didn’t know. I meant to pass her down the line and was off line. Fortunately she got her paddle up so I didn’t hit her, would have stung if it had. She was startled and furious. I really didn’t mean to and apologized profusely. After that I didn’t hit anything with pace and DW and I won anyway. I apologized again as we walked off but it was obvious I wasn’t forgiven as she said ‘I don’t know why some men like to “tee off” on women.’ I consciously try hard not to but I made a mistake, and she doesn’t know me. [She had no eye protection which I consider a huge mistake, but I’m sure me suggesting same wouldn’t have been well received]

At risk of being sexist…

• Some women expect men to dial it back, and I’m OK with that (some men do tee off on all women, that’s wrong IMO).
• Some women who don’t move well are disappointed if you don’t hit it in (softly) right to them, I’m not OK with that - at least let me work on placement if I’m dialing it way back. I’m paying to play too.
• And some better women players are insulted if you dial it back for them.
• I try to adapt but it’s a little tiresome to have to figure out how to adapt in each game…wish I had a better answer.

At least with four men playing, there’s no expectation of dialing anything back. IMO if you’re better than me - man or woman, many are, go for it with my blessing! I never play without eye protection so no worries.

A-ha moment? I think I’m going to suggest we try to play all men, all women as much as possible next open play. I’d suggest we let the women self select- women who prefer mixed are welcome and some of the other women might be happier?

 

[Luvtoride]

Could be interesting here, though I don’t have good answers. I play 3 times/week and really enjoy it. 2 days/week is with friends, but once a week we’ve been playing Active Aces 55+ open play with 16-24 people, some we’ve seen before but others not. That’s where etiquette is a puzzle. I’d like everyone to enjoy themselves as much as possible. However there is supposed to be some element of competition as well, otherwise there’s no point IMO.

I’m just an average player, but not a beginner. Yesterday I inadvertently hit the ball about chest high with more pace than intended at a woman I didn’t know. I meant to pass her down the line and was off line. Fortunately she got her paddle up so I didn’t hit her, would have stung if it had. She was startled and furious. I really didn’t mean to and apologized profusely. After that I didn’t hit anything with pace and DW and I won anyway. I apologized again as we walked off but it was obvious I wasn’t forgiven as she said ‘I don’t know why some men like to “tee off” on women.’ I consciously try hard not to but I made a mistake, and she doesn’t know me. [She had no eye protection which I consider a huge mistake, but I’m sure me suggesting same wouldn’t have been well received]

At risk of being sexist…

• Some women expect men to dial it back, and I’m OK with that (some men do tee off on all women, that’s wrong IMO).
• Some women who don’t move well are disappointed if you don’t hit it in (softly) right to them, I’m not OK with that - at least let me work on placement if I’m dialing it way back. I’m paying to play too.
• And some better women players are insulted if you dial it back for them.
• I try to adapt but it’s a little tiresome to have to figure out how to adapt in each game…wish I had a better answer.

At least with four men playing, there’s no expectation of dialing anything back. IMO if you’re better than me - man or woman, many are, go for it with my blessing! I never play without eye protection so no worries.

A-ha moment? I think I’m going to suggest we try to play all men, all women as much as possible next open play. I’d suggest we let the women self select- women who prefer mixed are welcome and some of the other women might be happier?

So what is your etiquette question? My DW and I play Open Play almost exclusively, weekdays at our gym (during cool weather) and outdoors on local courts using the Team Reach app when the weather gets warmer. There are a majority of Women playing in these Intermediate level group sessions. Nobody “dials it back” nor expects others to do so. Actually some of the women are especially “aggressive” and very good players.
Yes, occasionally there are balls hit directly at others and maybe an occasional “sorry” is mentioned (with a smile or laugh) if they don’t get their paddle up to hit it or block it from hitting them. I can say these shots are never intentional nor meant to hurt anyone!

It sounds like certain players in your group are either not at the same level, are overly sensitive or aren’t there for the level of competitiveness that the group generally follows.

 

[savory]

It’s not a sex issue. It’s a skill issue. And perhaps wanting to play but not taking the time to practice or locate players with similer court goals.

I’ve worked hard to get to my level and I want a challenging game designed to keep my attention and provide a workout. Her complaint that you should adjust to her level of play is unreasonable and has nothing to do with a persons sex.i play agaist lots of women i wish were my partner vs my opponent.

Where I live now, there is some division of skills on the upper end. The better players ultimately get a few games of 4 players ar their level. I do believe they are OK with that but I know they would prefer to play together more often. Understanding that, I will defer some games to allow them to play.

In the meantime, I’ve set a goal to provide some solid competition for them. I have been able to improve a fair amount by wall training and by getting to know their strengths and weaknesses during our matches. I probably should take some lessons but just haven’t.

 

[latexman]

wish I had a better answer.

happens.

 

[Dtail]

I have seen that the better skilled women don't care if you fire it at them. In fact if you hit them and over apologize, they could take it the wrong way on the other side of the equation.
Lesser skilled women can be trickier at times. If I play against beginner women (which is rare), then I do dial it down, as there are many other ways to win. If I play against certain intermediate to lower intermediate women that I know, then I decide depending knowing how they would react. Sounds a little complicated, but it is not for me.
Some women complain just as much when I lob.

 

[gauss]

If the offended person has a recurring problems with men on the court, perhaps she would be better of not playing with a co-ed group?

-gauss

 

[mystang52]

Maybe it's unique to OP's group, but I tfind that woman's attitude inappropriate. It's a game, with the intent to win by scoring more points than the other side. I'd refuse to play that woman again, but otherwise not change playing style

 

[RunningBum]

An open group I sometimes play with has a "top" court on one end and "bottom" court at the other, and people self-select where to start. Winners of each match move up one court, losers move down. Top court winner stays, as does the bottom court loser. We also switch partners, though you don't have to. This usually keeps the top players in the top half of courts, and bottom towards the bottom, so there aren't too many skills mismatches where one feels the need to take it really easy, plus it's more fun to play opponents near your own level. As your play improves you'll move towards the top court, with new or injured players filling the bottom.

 

[freedomatlast]

She'll get over it. Laugh it off and move on.

 

[Kings over Queens]

She'll get over it. Laugh it off and move on.

Hard to say because I don't know the woman, but from the one sentence and her reaction, I doubt it.

 

[RunningBum]

I'd probably opt out of playing against someone who didn't accept a genuine apology. Or I'd seek her out next time and apologize one more time, and if she had the same reaction I'd say, OK, let's not play against each other again.

 

[freedomatlast]

Hard to say because I don't know the woman, but from the one sentence and her reaction, I doubt it.

If she doesn't get over it, it's not his problem. He didn't intentionally try to hurt her, she didn't get hurt, he apologized anyway and there's nothing more to do except forget about it and move on.

 

[Aerides]

It sounds like she has maybe had a similar incident in the past? And maybe someone did something intentional before (it happens). Either way, you're not psychic and shouldn't take her baggage to mean you have to change.

I would not take your example to generalize or suggest splitting gender groups. It's one event, it doesn't mean you have to rewrite the game. Just shake it off and go on as it happened from your perspective: A simple play error in which no one was hurt, you apologized, done.

 

[TripleLindy]

Most organized play, while fun, is competitive in nature. Competitive means taking the best shot to win the point. Sometimes, that’s a drive to the body of an unsuspecting opponent (not head/face). Having said that, you clearly intended a different shot. If your opponent couldn’t understand that after your apology, there’s not much else to do.

Thankfully, the mixed groups I play in are 4.0+ and everyone expects hard drives at any moment. I no longer play in open play because the possibility (probability) of significant skill mismatches.

 

[pacergal]

I don't play pickleball yet (DGS wants to teach us), but if I did, I certainly would where protective gear and expect all balls coming my way to maybe sting a bit if I got hit! Eye protection sounds like a must to me, you never know if an errant ball bounces or sails a bit off of target.

OP--you have done due diligence by apologizing. Keep playing for your enjoyment, and if by chance she becomes an opponent again, either ask for a different couple or simply play the way you do. She should expect some competition, if not, maybe she needs to switch to badminton or something softer.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

She should go sit on the sidelines where she won't be struck by a ball.

And if she complains about being struck with a ball on the sidelines she should move even further away.

If she wants to play, accept the possible results. Don't whine.

I coached female athletes for years.

 

[Dtail]

She should go sit on the sidelines where she won't be struck by a ball.

And if she complains about being struck with a ball on the sidelines she should move even further away.

If she wants to play, accept the possible results. Don't whine.

I coached female athletes for years.

Female athlete might be stretching it for her.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Female athlete might be stretching it for her.

I never said she was a female athlete.

If she wants to play competitive sports with others, accept all possible outcomes.

If she wants to softly hit balls against her garage door to eliminate any possibility of being hit with a fastball, she can make that choice.

 

[chemEguy]

Sounds like someone that never played tennis doubles. I strongly suspect there is a large contingent of people playing PB with no court sport experience that expect certain things that are not based in reality.

I had a female player yell at me because I hit a return of serve as a drop shot with extreme slice and she couldn’t get to in time.

When I play, if I’m forced to lob I yell LOB COMING to alert my partner to back the eff up so they have a shot at returning the overhead smash.

I don’t mind people slamming the ball at me because I understand how to defend the shot or to move back to a safe defensive position.

A lot of people that think they know how to play have zero court sense or shot awareness.

I’ve partnered up in open groups where people seem surprised when I call SWITCH or COVER to facilitate court coverage. It’s frustrating when the response is to do nothing. But, again, you can only expect so much if they never played tennis. Doubles, and thus PB, is all about understanding court coverage and how to work as a team without having to explain it in real time.

As to OP. Meh, oh well and move on. If you are afraid of contact, go watch tv.

 

[Midpack]

It sounds like she has maybe had a similar incident in the past? And maybe someone did something intentional before (it happens). Either way, you're not psychic and shouldn't take her baggage to mean you have to change.

I would not take your example to generalize or suggest splitting gender groups. It's one event, it doesn't mean you have to rewrite the game. Just shake it off and go on as it happened from your perspective: A simple play error in which no one was hurt, you apologized, done.

I wasn’t expected an answer, I was looking for other POVs, and I got that. Appreciated.

Picking and choosing who you will/not play with is not an option, as some of your undoubtedly know.

She’s not the only person in our open play group who’s made it clear they expect men to dial it back. And frankly most men do somewhat with less experienced players and/or less powerful women. There are also women who don’t want men to dial it back, but we have to all learn as we go in each game what’s expected. While I’m not trying to suggest it’s gender alone, no man of any skill level has ever reacted like several of the women do.

I’ve hit people, we all have. But I’ve never done it intentionally, to the contrary I usually try to avoid hitting anyone more often than not - but it happens sometimes.

Ladder play is the obvious solution, but the number of players varies every time, and even over the 2 hours we play - some step out for a break, some show up late or leave early, and sign ups aren’t at all restricted to multiples of 4. So there are often people sitting out waiting. Ladder play would also force us to start games all at the same time, which would detract.

 

[TripleLindy]

If you want to avoid that kind of conflict, maybe start scheduling small groups with players of your choosing and similar skill level.

I’m plugged into several groups - both mixed and men’s - all with similar skill sets. And it’s not uncommon to arrange play with just 4 players on an ad-hoc basis. If you don’t already have it, get the Pickleheads app. It’s great for scheduling group play. Our groups probably have more than 50 “members” with multiple events per week and whoever registers for each one (up to the limit) gets to play. But you have to be invited to the group to get an event invitation. And we have facilities where we can reserve courts.

The organized games are just as social/fun as open play. Probably even more so since you don’t see behavior like what you described.

 

[RetiredHappy]

I am a woman and I would say it is her problem. You did nothing wrong. I played pickle ball several times and realized that I would never get good enough to enjoy it. I sounds like she is less skilled and she should consider playing with others at her level, and not even play in mixed doubles.

 

[jollystomper]

Do similar situations occur in mixed doubles in other paddle sports (tennis, ping pong, etc)? I do not ever recall anyone saying one has to "ease up" when playing in those sports. I agree with those who say this is really a skill issue.

Heck, I played co-ed volleyball, talk about no one dialing it back at the net... .

 

[chemEguy]

Do similar situations occur in mixed doubles in other paddle sports (tennis, ping pong, etc)? I do not ever recall anyone saying one has to "ease up" when playing in those sports. I agree with those who say this is really a skill issue.

Heck, I played co-ed volleyball, talk about no one dialing it back at the net... .

Never encountered it in mixed dubs in tennis.

 

[badatmath]

It sounds like she is playing cause it is "trendy" but lacks the skills or maybe even the desire to be competitive and thus is taking things personally. I'm a klutz and would have to sort myself to a women's only beginner group to avoid getting creamed but that wouldn't be anyone else's fault.