Musical Form Question: Guys and Dolls

[ERD50]

We recently attended a performance of "Guys and Dolls", which opens with the iconic song line "I've got the horse right here, his name is Paul Revere...". I wanted to get a little background on the tune and the performance, and was surprised to realize I did not know the title of the song. It's one of those uncommon titles that doesn't appear in the lyrics, it's called "Fugue for Tinhorns".

My musical form question: Is it a fugue? I would think that Frank Loesser would know better than I, but it sounds like a "round" to me. Like when people sing "Row, row, row your boat", and the next person starts in a few bars later. And it's a direct copy of the previous line.

It seems to me that this is a round - only slight variation to fit the syllables/meter. IIRC, 'fugue" is German for 'flight' or "chase", and when I think of a Bach fugue, I think of two or more lines 'chasing' each other, with variations and counterpoint.

What say you? Round, or Fugue, or other?

Also, the lyrics are pretty clever, I could never make them out with three vocals on top of each other - here's a good source that lines them up:

https://genius.com/Stubby-kaye-and-frank-sinatra-fugue-for-tinhorns-lyrics

 

[ERD50]

OK, here's what one AI response was:

https://poe.com/chat

Is the song "Fugue for Tinhorns" actually a fugue, or is it more properly called a "round".

Assistant Poe

"Fugue for Tinhorns" is not actually a fugue, despite its name. It is more accurately described as a round or canon.

A fugue is a specific musical form that involves the introduction of a short melodic theme (the "subject") that is then repeated in succession by different voices or instruments, each time at a different pitch. The voices overlap and intertwine, creating a complex polyphonic texture.

In contrast, a round is a type of canon where the same melodic line is sung or played in succession by different voices, with each voice starting the melody at a different time. The voices overlap, but they are all singing/playing the exact same melody, rather than different contrapuntal lines as in a fugue.

"Fugue for Tinhorns" from the musical Guys and Dolls has the structure of a round, with the three characters singing the same melody one after the other. It does not exhibit the key features of a true fugue. So while the title may suggest it is a fugue, the musical form is more accurately described as a round or canon.

 

[Koolau]

If you can't trust AI, who can you trust?

 

[Perryinva]

I performed in G&D in community theatre back in the ‘80s, as a gambler (Liver Lips Louie.). That was a great song for everyone. While we never discussed fugue vs round, we understood the title to be tongue in cheek, as fugue carried an “upperclass” air to it while the tinhorns singing it are clearly “lower class”. A great musical, and still one of my favorites.

 

[ERD50]

Weird co-incidence - this thread ran it's course a few weeks ago, and just a few minutes ago I randomly commented to my wife on the way back from dinner out, that a neighbor mentioned they had their dog neutered. And I know that a neutered bull is a steer, but I couldn't recall what a neutered male dog is called. Then I made a 'joke' - Do you know what a neutered horse is called (I know it goes from a stallion to a gelding)? And before she could answer, I said "Paul Revere!"

So I get a "huh?", and started singing the song "I've got a horse right here". So after we get home and settle in, I sit down at the computer, open this thread from the notification, and just as I'm reading it, she calls out "Thanks, now I've got that song in my head!"

Weird.

Anyway - it must have been a blast to play that part. Thanks for the insight to the upper-class/lower-class angle. Makes sense.

 

[HFWR]

If you can't trust AI, who can you trust?

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