New RVs - Are you kidding me?

[flyoverstate]

We have a very small Jayco trailer that is ten years old, and we thought we would look at new trailers that are a little bigger, but still 1/2 ton towable, so 18-22' long, 5000 lb or so dry.

I don't really follow the RV industry, but what I have found is really unbelievable, and quite sobering.

90% of new camping trailers in the US are made by just three manufacturers, all based in Elkhart, IN. All of those dozens of brands are just marketing differentiation. They all use the same pool of labor and engineering people jumping between manufacturers for 50 cent an hour raises,, and they all use the same components, including in most cases, the same frames, built by someone else. They hire piecework laborers to slap the trailers together and send them off to dealers, who then do a pre-delivery inspection and go back and forth with the manufacturer on what needs to be fixed before the trailer is sold. After the sale, any problems are on the buyer to convince the dealer that the issue is part of the warranty, and then it is on the dealer to convince the manufacturer that it should be fixed. Much finger pointing ensues.

RV sales ads sites and dealer's websites are skeezy. I've never been asked to "Verify that I am human" by some unknown "Verification" website in all my life. RVTrader.com is the worst.

We recently looked at an Elkhart-built trailer, and honestly, the interior fit and finish were much better than I expected. But holy *&%^, the wiring and plumbing were an abomination. I crawled underneath and honestly asked the sales person if it had been rewired and what was there was just temporary. A 120V/12V converter and junction with a dozen 14-16 gauge wires going into it, wide open, hanging down under the frame crossmembers with no protection from weather, rocks, dirt or rodents. Wrapped underneath the box so tightly that I thought it might be to hold the electrical box up, were a propane hose junction and three propane hoses going off to parts unknown.

The water plumbing was no better, low-grade Pex-like tubing with really bad clamps shoved on to plastic nipples sure to crack under the strain in a few years.

I don't expect perfection in what is basically a low-priced house on wheels, but what I saw looked worse than a clueless DIY'ers first efforts. Just shoddy. Complaints about new trailers are legion on the internet, and you can watch dozens of YouTube videos showing issues with just about every component in these trailers. The manufacturers are clearly engineering to make the interior look good, and hoping that no one looks behind the walls to see what they are actually buying.

We will be keeping our thoroughly debugged trailer a few more years, while watching out for a used unit that will meet our needs.

 

[Koolau]

No idea if this site is reliable, but they suggest there ARE some good travel trailer manufacturers - but only 5 if you believe the site.

Most American-Made RVs are Junk - These 5 are Actually Great

Drivin' & Vibin' LLC is an innovative lifestyle brand that blends the freedom of RV living with the passion for music. Founded by Kyle Brady, Drivin' & Vibin' has become a go-to resource for RV enthusiasts and music lovers alike. The company is renowned for its unique approach to travel...

drivinvibin.com

Oh, and "everyone" in the Midwest knows about Elkheart IN.

 

[Cognito]

I have owned 2 Scamp's. They're out of Minnesota. Maybe 1600 lbs. They are small versions of Airstream in white. 2 pieces. Top and bottom w/ a seal around the center. Very light. Maybe 13' or 16'. I took a 16' loaded w/ air, hot water, awning, etc. cross country w/my small Ford Ranger. It took the Rockies fairly well. The flatlands were a breeze. They are made well and don't think you could go wrong with a used one. Only inconvenience was breaking down the table to a bed every night.

 

[flyoverstate]

I looked at that list. We want a small toy hauler, so Airstream, Newmar, Tiffin, and Oliver are out. I've heard Airstream has slid in the past few years anyway and aren't the thing they used to be. I've looked over several new ones and they didn't impress me.

Grand Design is another Elkhart brand (actually owned by Winnebago), but they do have a better reputation for quality. I find it funny that their claim to fame is that they actually inspect their trailers before shipping them to dealers. It is sad, but true, a lot of brands don't even hook up their trailers at the end of the assembly process to see that everything works, they expect the dealer to be their QC. Our Jayco came off the lot unable to charge the battery and it took six weeks and two 1 1/2 hour each way trips to the dealer to get it taken care of. Then we had two recalls, again 1 1/2 hours each way to the dealer. But since then, the trailer has been very solid. It is a very simple and basic trailer though, there is really nothing similar on the market today, especially in a toy hauler. We could only tow Grand Design's smallest toy hauler, but it is worth a look, Unfortunately, there are none within 250 miles of us. Maybe they are so good that they don't sit on the lots.

 

[Trailwalker]

I have owned 2 Scamp's. They're out of Minnesota. Maybe 1600 lbs. They are small versions of Airstream in white. 2 pieces. Top and bottom w/ a seal around the center. Very light. Maybe 13' or 16'. I took a 16' loaded w/ air, hot water, awning, etc. cross country w/my small Ford Ranger. It took the Rockies fairly well. The flatlands were a breeze. They are made well and don't think you could go wrong with a used one. Only inconvenience was breaking down the table to a bed every night.

I owned a 2001 Scamp 16'. It was well-made. I sold it before leaving Wisconsin this summer. If I was going to buy a Scamp, I would choose an older one that has all of the kinks worked out. The feedback on the fit and finish for the new ones isn't that great. The resale on fiberglass trailers is excellent. I sold mine for what I paid for it seven years ago.

I'm in the market for a new trailer, but we want a dry bath this time so probably won't be choosing a fiberglass one. I'm probably going to look for a used one and the same size as OP.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

I'm a tent guy.

 

[Murf2]

If you’re looking at small high quality toy hauler, you should check out the aluminum car hauler type toy haulers. Much better trailer, although they are kinda spartan.
Most of the skip the luxurious particle & mdf appointments.

Murf

 

[ArmchairMillionaire]

We have a very small Jayco trailer that is ten years old, and we thought we would look at new trailers that are a little bigger, but still 1/2 ton towable, so 18-22' long, 5000 lb or so dry.

I don't really follow the RV industry, but what I have found is really unbelievable, and quite sobering.

90% of new camping trailers in the US are made by just three manufacturers, all based in Elkhart, IN. All of those dozens of brands are just marketing differentiation. They all use the same pool of labor and engineering people jumping between manufacturers for 50 cent an hour raises,, and they all use the same components, including in most cases, the same frames, built by someone else. They hire piecework laborers to slap the trailers together and send them off to dealers, who then do a pre-delivery inspection and go back and forth with the manufacturer on what needs to be fixed before the trailer is sold. After the sale, any problems are on the buyer to convince the dealer that the issue is part of the warranty, and then it is on the dealer to convince the manufacturer that it should be fixed. Much finger pointing ensues.

RV sales ads sites and dealer's websites are skeezy. I've never been asked to "Verify that I am human" by some unknown "Verification" website in all my life. RVTrader.com is the worst.

We recently looked at an Elkhart-built trailer, and honestly, the interior fit and finish were much better than I expected. But holy *&%^, the wiring and plumbing were an abomination. I crawled underneath and honestly asked the sales person if it had been rewired and what was there was just temporary. A 120V/12V converter and junction with a dozen 14-16 gauge wires going into it, wide open, hanging down under the frame crossmembers with no protection from weather, rocks, dirt or rodents. Wrapped underneath the box so tightly that I thought it might be to hold the electrical box up, were a propane hose junction and three propane hoses going off to parts unknown.

The water plumbing was no better, low-grade Pex-like tubing with really bad clamps shoved on to plastic nipples sure to crack under the strain in a few years.

I don't expect perfection in what is basically a low-priced house on wheels, but what I saw looked worse than a clueless DIY'ers first efforts. Just shoddy. Complaints about new trailers are legion on the internet, and you can watch dozens of YouTube videos showing issues with just about every component in these trailers. The manufacturers are clearly engineering to make the interior look good, and hoping that no one looks behind the walls to see what they are actually buying.

We will be keeping our thoroughly debugged trailer a few more years, while watching out for a used unit that will meet our needs.

Mercedes Streeter over at The Autopian has documented just how poorly trailers are being made recently.

Article 1

Article 2

Article 3

The Autopian is a car-enthusiast site, so these are written with that perspective, but there's some good info in them.

 

[pb4uski]

Our last RV was a 2018 Rockwood MiniLite that we used for a few cross country trip and it was pretty solid. We never had anything that we had to take it itno the dealer that I can recall.

We had the most trouble with the murphy bed. I had to take it apart twice and rebuild it. The first time the hinge was loose and after i took it all apart I discovered that where the hinge was not visible that they only put fasteners in every third hole. I reassembled adding fasteners to every hole and never had that problem again. It was sort of funny that where the hinge was visible they had fasteners in every hold but it was different where the hinge wasn't visible. They probably save $1 in fasteners but had a less sturdy product.

Prior that we had a Jayco and Starcraft pop-up camper and didn't have any problem with those.

OTOH, a friend of ours has a mid six-figureclass A motorhome and it seems that it is always in the shop.

 

[flyoverstate]

If you’re looking at small high quality toy hauler, you should check out the aluminum car hauler type toy haulers. Much better trailer, although they are kinda spartan.
Most of the skip the luxurious particle & mdf appointments.

Murf

Yes, ATC is on our radar, but once you get them to the level where they have an actual bathroom and shower, they are $60K+ for a very basic 20 footer. And that is with a wet bath, which we would prefer not to have.

Honestly, I'd be completely happy just sleeping in the back of my truck or even in the back of a cargo trailer with a cot, but my wife is not interested in that.

I think used is going to be our only option. Our budget is up to $40K, but everything in that price range seems to be a variation on the same Elkhart theme. If we are going to be doing a "generic" trailer, I'd rather buy recent but used in hopes that they have dealt with the broken stuff.

 

[Fermion]

Try to find a Born Free or something similar.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

I have a tent.. Best family memories of all time.

 

[jazz4cash]

I worked in an adjacent industry, mostly class A but also really high end celebrity owned coaches. We used to joke all the yime about the furniture and such being higher quality than what we had in our homes. The mechanical stuff we worked on was a nightmare. I recall battery cables tie wrapped to fuel lines. I always remind people to stay away from those beasts in traffic because the operator just has a regular drivers license and 10 minutes of training in the dealer’s parking lot.
The dealer’s get stuck sitting on million$ in inventory.

 

[ransil]

must be an old article
Tiffin is now owned by Thor and so is Airstream, as said in the first post there are only 3 RV mfg out there.
they will say these are separate divisions but bean counters are controlling everything plus some suppliers are also owned by Thor so those go into each RV.

I was at the Newmar facility doing a tour the day the buyout was announce.

I have a " high end" RV the wiring is horrible , the amount of construction debris I find behind and under things as I do upgrades / repairs is bad.

No idea if this site is reliable, but they suggest there ARE some good travel trailer manufacturers - but only 5 if you believe the site.

Most American-Made RVs are Junk - These 5 are Actually Great

Drivin' & Vibin' LLC is an innovative lifestyle brand that blends the freedom of RV living with the passion for music. Founded by Kyle Brady, Drivin' & Vibin' has become a go-to resource for RV enthusiasts and music lovers alike. The company is renowned for its unique approach to travel...

drivinvibin.com

Oh, and "everyone" in the Midwest knows about Elkheart IN.

 

[Golden Mean]

RV sales ads sites and dealer's websites are skeezy. I've never been asked to "Verify that I am human" by some unknown "Verification" website in all my life. RVTrader.com is the worst.

I get the "human verification" thing on about 20% of flights I hit now. It's pretty typical and I think an attempt to reduce the "pick the bicycles in these photos" stuff, while still giving the site denial of service and bot crawling.

 

[Route246]

We have a very small Jayco trailer that is ten years old, and we thought we would look at new trailers that are a little bigger, but still 1/2 ton towable, so 18-22' long, 5000 lb or so dry.

I don't really follow the RV industry, but what I have found is really unbelievable, and quite sobering.

90% of new camping trailers in the US are made by just three manufacturers, all based in Elkhart, IN. All of those dozens of brands are just marketing differentiation. They all use the same pool of labor and engineering people jumping between manufacturers for 50 cent an hour raises,, and they all use the same components, including in most cases, the same frames, built by someone else. They hire piecework laborers to slap the trailers together and send them off to dealers, who then do a pre-delivery inspection and go back and forth with the manufacturer on what needs to be fixed before the trailer is sold. After the sale, any problems are on the buyer to convince the dealer that the issue is part of the warranty, and then it is on the dealer to convince the manufacturer that it should be fixed. Much finger pointing ensues.

RV sales ads sites and dealer's websites are skeezy. I've never been asked to "Verify that I am human" by some unknown "Verification" website in all my life. RVTrader.com is the worst.

We recently looked at an Elkhart-built trailer, and honestly, the interior fit and finish were much better than I expected. But holy *&%^, the wiring and plumbing were an abomination. I crawled underneath and honestly asked the sales person if it had been rewired and what was there was just temporary. A 120V/12V converter and junction with a dozen 14-16 gauge wires going into it, wide open, hanging down under the frame crossmembers with no protection from weather, rocks, dirt or rodents. Wrapped underneath the box so tightly that I thought it might be to hold the electrical box up, were a propane hose junction and three propane hoses going off to parts unknown.

The water plumbing was no better, low-grade Pex-like tubing with really bad clamps shoved on to plastic nipples sure to crack under the strain in a few years.

I don't expect perfection in what is basically a low-priced house on wheels, but what I saw looked worse than a clueless DIY'ers first efforts. Just shoddy. Complaints about new trailers are legion on the internet, and you can watch dozens of YouTube videos showing issues with just about every component in these trailers. The manufacturers are clearly engineering to make the interior look good, and hoping that no one looks behind the walls to see what they are actually buying.

We will be keeping our thoroughly debugged trailer a few more years, while watching out for a used unit that will meet our needs.

Thank you for posting this. We had no idea. We have contemplated an RV but this is eye-opening. You do get what you pay for.

 

[Redbugdave]

Go used because the last owner has fixed most of the problems.

 

[MC Rider]

Sounds like a good reason to rent rather than own.

 

[RetMD21]

Newmar is supposed to be high end but may be shipping motorhomes without proper VIN

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...le-lawsuit-government-is-involved-257843.html

They deny it of course

 

[SJhawkins]

Feel your pain, pre covid trailers are somewhat OK, avoid most anything built during the covid times. The newer trailers are crap shoot, if your not a handy person and don't like working on projects maybe better to find something other to do!

Had a few trailers over the years, all smaller units, went without for a good 8-10 years.

Today we have precovid Casita, similar to a Scamp mentioned up thread, great little camper. Would also prefer a typical built 20 foot something rig but going to give it a few years like you. Just to many rolling turds being manufactured.

I did give some thoughts of converting a enclosed utility trailer, probably still a better option! My local utiliy trailer dealer stocks a few enclosed trailers with this mind, they have a few windows and RV doors installed.

 

[Drake3287]

Follow this Youtube channel and you'll never buy a new RV again. Very eye opening.

Liz Amazing

An RV consumer advocate shining the light on the good and the bad of the RV industry. Fridays at 5pm Eastern Time. For all sponsorship inquiries, please contact lizamazing@adhesivemedia.com

www.youtube.com

 

[skyking1]

We've had 3 older 5th wheels behind Ram diesel trucks. 1 tent trailer that for $900 gave us the best run for the money.
"Buy used" is a very valid strategy. Many friends got new and then the rig sat at the dealer getting fixed through the whole summer season. Big depreciation and no joy at all. They do not make you whole for that.
A couple of years old is a sweet spot. You can check it out and usually run with it for a while.
Cheap tires, sometimes spring hangars will need to be changed early. Do not skimp on rubber.

 

[freetodream]

Just buy a fiberglass travel trailer, they last for years!
Scamp in MN, Casita in Tx, Oliver in Tn - Escape in Chilliwack, BC

 

[Triton461]

We bought a 2021 Nucamp T@G Boondock XL used in December 2024 after 7 years of tent camping. The T@G is essentially a king bed on wheels with a galley under the rear hatch. It weighs about 1400 pds. We've been on about 7 to 8 trips so far with it and like it a lot. Back in, pull out the awning and set out the chairs.

 

[Surewhitey]

I only get out a few times per year and do not have a spot to park a rig. So I took the w*rk van & made it a 4-7 day option with my power supply, fridge and chuck box. Takes 30 minutes to load and we're off. 22 mpg to boot. 2-25" mattresses & very comfortable.

Funny enough, half of the acquired items were hand downs or self-made. Only costs were the mini-fridge and power supply. Oh & the Q series Weber...