New York City School Zone Camera Speeding Tickets

scrabbler1

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It happened again. I got caught by one of those school zone camera taking pictures of cars going too fast through (alleged) school zones.

Back in August, 2020, during the height of the pandemic, I got caught by one of those camera going too fast by a school. It was a Tuesday in August, and it was 6:59 AM, so there was zero activity anywhere near the Queens school, nor was there any real chance of there being any activity, as NYC schools were doing remote teaching, if any were open on an early Tuesday morning in August!

Then, a few weeks ago, I was heading west on North Conduit Avenue in Ozone Park, Queens. North Conduit Avenue is a one-way, 4-laned road acting as the service road to the westbound Belt Parkway. It was 10:30 AM on a Saturday, and traffic was extremely light. But there are no schools anywhere near 127th Street, the street quoted in the notice of violation. Furthermore, when I looked up the list of all designated school zones in NYC (from the NYC DOT's website), there is no mention of any school zones on North Conduit Avenue and nearby cross streets including 127th Street.

Intersection

So, if this isn't a school zone, why is there a camera taking pictures of cars heading west on North Conduit Avenue? Looks like a simple money grab to me, similar to the law change which allows these cameras to operate 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Is it worth fighting this ticket ($50) because there is no actual school zone present where the camera was positioned?
 
It is a money grab. Those stupid camera's are everywhere in the city.

I don't know how you go about fighting it. It's not a moving violation, so no points, just the fine, similar to a parking ticket. To fight it I think you need to prove you weren't going that fast, or it's not your car.
 
I looked up the law pertaining to distance from the nearest school. It's about a quarter-mile in any direction (radial) and there is a school on the south side of the Belt Parkway, on 129th Street halfway between South Conduit Avenue and 150th Avenue. However, no kid could possibly walk that direct path to where I got flagged because the kid would have to go through private properties, fences, and cross a 6-laned highway (Belt Parkway) and the 3-laned South Conduit Avenue midblock. To get to where I got flagged walking on "safe" roads, it would be more than 1/4 mile.

There were no warning signs earlier on North Conduit Avenue warning of a school zone or the presence of cameras. Pure money grab.
 
Was there any speed limit signs along the way ?

I think most folks hate speed camera's because they can catch every speeder, compared to a cop that is often on interested in the fastest person in a grouping and can't do any more tickets until they are done with the 1 they are working on.

Often I've felt at ease passing a cop giving some speeder a ticket, as I know the cop is too busy to bother with me.
 
I would dispute the ticket. School is not in session on Saturday at 10:30 am.

You know the school schedule for a fact, what if it's a private school, or a religious school. Or has some programs during the weekend to maximize the facility usage.

Disputing would work, if a person can prove the school was empty that Saturday and the law refers to school zones as applicable only when school is in session.

By similar reasoning, if school is out at 4:00 pm, can I drive fast past the school at 4:30 pm ?

I think the time to dispute the $50 ticket is going to be a lot.
 
Disputing would work, if a person can prove the school was empty that Saturday and the law refers to school zones as applicable only when school is in session.

By similar reasoning, if school is out at 4:00 pm, can I drive fast past the school at 4:30 pm ?.
I've seen signs with posted speed limits during school hours as well as right on red example, but can't say if the same apply to the camera zones. I'm willing to bet it doesn't matter, it's a money grab and they city is an expert in fines and tickets.
 
I would dispute it based on the fact that school was not in session. We had those cameras here at one time and there was so much flack from the residents, the town ripped them all out.
 
Is it worth fighting this ticket ($50) because there is no actual school zone present where the camera was positioned?
YES!

NYC has made it extremely easy to fight a ticket, and they are fair about it. I speak from experience. You can do it through their website, or through their app..."Pay or Dispute"

Your first step is to pay the fine. You need to do this to stop any penalties or further action while you dispute.

When you file the dispute, be specific as possible. Provide the evidence, as you've discussed. Provide references from the city's own website(s). Be polite in your dispute, stick to the facts.

Within a few weeks you'll get a decision from an administrative judge who is tasked with this stuff. If you disagree with the ruling, you can appeal - again, the reason for paying the fine immediately, it can go on. If you file the appeal, indicate why the judge's ruling was incorrect (in your view) and again provide evidence.

My own experience - it was probably two years ago. DD lives in Astoria, there is a municipal parking lot a couple blocks from her apartment. We park in that lot because it is walking distance and the rates are cheap. However, the lot is split into short term and long term sections. Depending where you park, you need to pay the correct fee. Long story short, meter maid issued a ticket because my car did not have a receipt in the window...because I paid with the city parking app. There were also inconsistencies in the ticket (indicated a lot number that was non-existent in the city). So I disputed. Administrative judge ruled against me! The judge's ruling said on my dispute that I made certain statements indicating I did something wrong. I appealed (goes to 3 judge panel for review). A few weeks later, the appeal comes back that I won! The 3 judges found the first judge's ruling had a number of errors. A few weeks later, a $35 check showed up from the city for the refund of my fine.

So, do it. There is no cost, at least initially. I believe when I appealed, I needed to mail the stuff back and of course send it by certified mail.
 
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for the hell of it, I checked the NYC website. the school zone camera's went 24/7/365 in august of 2022. makes no difference if school is in session, and frankly, whether the camera is near a school or not.

check "nyc vision zero" for more deets.
 
I don't know about NYC, but here in California, I fought a speeding ticket on Interstate 5 up the central valley. You fight it by mail. In my case, I used a blue crayon and wrote, "not guilty". By law, the LEO must also write his case and if he doesn't then the ticketed party wins and the ticket is dropped. The LEO didn't reply. Found out that here they have to do that on their time. If they have to go to court to testify, then they get paid, but if they are responding to a written contest of the ticket, they do it on their own time.
Normally I would not have fought the ticket, but the issue was that I was towing a small trailer, delivering my son to college with his possessions. I was in the slow lane, someone merging on was not paying attention and merging into me, so I moved to the fast lane and accelerated to get around the merger and then moved back to the slow lane and proceeded at the legal limit for towing with a trailer; 55mph in California on a highway that is 70mph for autos.
 
Is it worth fighting this ticket ($50) because there is no actual school zone present where the camera was positioned?
Yes, especially if affects insurance rates.

In South Florida traffic violations are easy to challenge and there are specialized attorneys. You pay the attorney the amount of the violation, they argue the case and if there’s a reduction in fine they keep the difference. If not they get nothing.

I sat in traffic court one morning and each traffic lawyer would represent 10-15 violations. Over a 90 minute period every case I saw got a reduction, and quite a few first offenders were able to get the violation dropped completely in exchange for a session in drivers school.
 
Have you been there recently? NYC is a wonderful city to visit.
3 weeks ago to see the WTC museum and memorial and then Johns of Bleeker Street. I enjoyed my recent visit to chicago more than being back in NYC. You can have my portion.
 
Have you been there recently? NYC is a wonderful city to visit.
No, not recently. Have friends who went and they won't be going back any time soon, but we're all different. I agree that NYC is an amazing place. Too bad it's got so many issues these days. I loved my time there literally weeks before 9/11.
 
for the hell of it, I checked the NYC website. the school zone camera's went 24/7/365 in august of 2022. makes no difference if school is in session, and frankly, whether the camera is near a school or not.

check "nyc vision zero" for more deets.
Interesting, thanks for pointing that out. I'm actually taking the train up in a couple of weeks, but I'll ask my friends who live there about that. (I drove once, but it's just easier and more comfortable to take the train, unless I'm bringing something too big for a suitcase.)

Around here, it's still only during the start and end hours of school, and the school zone speed limit signs have flashing yellow lights that only are on during those hours.

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for the hell of it, I checked the NYC website. the school zone camera's went 24/7/365 in august of 2022. makes no difference if school is in session, and frankly, whether the camera is near a school or not.

check "nyc vision zero" for more deets.
Yes, the fact that the 24/7 feature exists in NYC tells me this is a money grab. I live in Nassau County, just east of Queens. My drive to Queens began a few miles outside Queens and included going through a school zone whose enforcement (not via camera) doesn't exist outside of posted school hours (a sign and flashing lights prior to entering it). In fact, I recall back in 2014(?) when the county installed some school zone speed cameras in August but by "mistake" activated them before the schools opened after Labor Day. Lots of tickets got mailed out and motorists fumed at the local leaders. It became so bad that the pols announced that all tickets issued before the schools opened were automatically dismissed! Pretty big difference in approaches taken by Nassau County versus the money-grabbing NYC with their stupid 24/7 usage of the cameras.
 
Whether or not school is in session, you can probably expect children to be nearby playing on the playground? Reason enough to slow down.
Our traffic signs here around schools usually have the hours listed or "when lights are flashing". Some simply say "school 20mph", I assume all days, all hours, because kids may be around.
 

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I probably wouldn't fight a $50 fine. Not worth the time.

In my town, speeding and red light running is getting crazy. I can't tell you how many times I've almost pulled into an intersection when the light turned green only to have some jackass fly through right in front of me. Bring on the cameras! If I get caught speeding or blowing through red lights, I'll pay the fine.
 
Camera-based fines might be unconstitutional since they do not permit you to confront the witness (a machine) as required by the Sixth Amendment. Testimony from an observer of the machine is merely hearsay.
 
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