Opinions re College Undergrad

[MichealKnight]

I never went to college. I spent 3 hours on a campus once to see kid sister get her law degree but other than that, I was just lucky to barely graduate high school and get on with life.

Now I'm 50 - been retired 5 years so my feeling is that despite investing, observing, reading, etc -- I'm more and more 'out of it' vis a vis workplace trends hence I'm here asking opinions.

DD: While not an elite student, I'd say - somewhat above average? 1370 SAT score. 4.09weighted GPA, perhaps (4) AP classes during high school. She will be going to a somewhat selective, private Liberal arts college where I feel the outcomes---be it career or grad school are above average.

IN High School she seemed to like Psychology. Got "5" on the AP exam. Got A-grades in Honors Behavioral Science, Honors Forensic science. She independently leafs thru books on psychology but also has a slight interest in aspects of business -- stuff like ' why does the Dunkin app place the order button here, not there' or ' how come a crew at one Starbucks is uniformly seeming upbeat---while the one down the road is the opposite". She'll read --2-3 business articles per week -- 'how the Five Below CEO incorporates store associates into her retail plans' etc. So while she likes Psychology---- we are 100% accepting that ---"we don't know, what we don't know". Could it be Psychology ---by way of licensure , ie Psy-D? Could it be ending up in Human Resources or Industrial-Occupational? One thing I feel somewhat sure about ---is this will require a Masters---or more down the road and I'm told ---getting into respected Masters /PHD program is about: GPA, Research Stints, Professor letters, internship so I wanted to ask about GPA strategy , specifically on two points:

1.)She got the A and the 5 in AP Psyche which qualifies her to skip "Introl" and do a 200 level Psyche course. Question is: What about taking the 'Intro to Psyche'..... despite her AP Class? Reasons for this thought:

*College instruction for her major's foundation - might be better than High School "teaching to the AP exam".
*Due to familiarity - maybe she can contribute substantively to discussions.
*It might be an easier "A' towards the GPA---while the freshman college transition happens.
*Between an A grade + good discussion contributions - she might get on professor's radar screen - -and get more research opportunities. (Small college. 2000 total students)
*If "Intro to Psyche" is less taxing on her---she has some time to develop college level writing skills, or other productive thins.

OR---- here's the contrary opinion:

*A professor will see she took AP Psyche, roll his or her eyes and think----this chick wanted an easy-A, big freaking deal.

If this is the case, should a 200 level course have been taken and is there merit in a professor saying ' well she's a freshman in my 200 level class...not bad at all'.


2.)Foreign Language -- the college requires 1 year of that.

I frankly don't get it. ONE year - what's the point. Either one is fluent, or not. I've seen school students who "took Spanish for a year"---speak clumsily, with American accent lol---all proud of themselves for being able to ask where the bathroom is. I personally just watched Las Noticias---(the news) and I could speak enough Spanish to make a customer feel at ease and do a transaction.

So the college makes them take a quick 'placement exam' and that decides what level course the kid places into. Again----same question.

GPA-wise---- is it better to do lousy on the placement exam---get put into the entry level language course----get the A , help GPA----but then spend that time working harder in the core and harder classes----be it Psychology, Econ, Statistics, whatever.


3.)Back to the business interest. In this unpredictable world----I felt it might be good to have some competency or even cursory knowledge of Accounting, Organizations, etc so for awhile, I felt a business minor would be good but again - IF she decides Psyche is 'her thing'--- I wonder if the GPA risk, and the extra work--isn't better off focusing on Psyche, Research, etc.

So instead of an actual "business minor'.... the idea was to -- take Econ as a regular course because it's the gateway to the business minor or major at this school. A requirement. BUT then - -take "Core" business courses like Orgonizations, and Accounting on a Satisfactory/unsatisfactory basis NOT to be lazy----but the idea was -- get the language of the boardroom. Get some basic accounting. Do a good job in those classes BUT - dont let it mess with your GPA, or dilute your focus from Psychology---if the goal is getting into a good Masters or PHD program for Psychology, HR (MHRM), Industrial -Occupational psyche, etc.

One one hand I feel "Hey, college is the place to get well rounded. Exposure , etc""

BUT --- reality is, things like GPA and research stints----seem to matter more to the above-average grad schools, instead of "oh how, you're a business minor"


ANY thoughts, opinions, out of box things------------I'd appreciate all of them.

Thanks

 

[COcheesehead]

A couple thoughts. My first employer out of college told me they recruit based on a student’s prior successes. Whatever they were. They wanted to see a series of accomplishments. So whatever she does, do it well.
For me personally college was about connections. Some that served me my entire life and still do to this day.

 

[MichealKnight]

Thanks.

This is why I'm sort of wondering --- is it smart to go for the most 'basic' foreign language---clear some time and energy to make those accomplishments? I feel like---being leadership in a club, or doing research with a Professor who will write a letter---is more an accomplishment than using Spanish grammar properly.

And the Intro to Psyche thing---vs starting at a 200 level course---- I'm still torn on that one. Part of me really likes the slight ease factor of Intro---- but if a professor sees that as a cop-out due to her AP exam in high school---is it counter productive.

 

[cathy63]

First question -- did she ask for your opinions on these topics? As an adult, most of this is for her to figure out and what she chooses to do might not be what you or we would think is the best course. So even if she does ask your advice, don't be surprised if she doesn't take it.

On the Psych AP thing. She should use the credits she rightfully earned and skip the intro class. AP Psych is probably the most popular AP class there is and many kids get a 5 on the test. She is unlikely to be the only freshman in the 200 level class. (Teenage girls and psych are a match made in heaven.)

Foreign language -- never tank a test. She'll do fine wherever she ends up.

Business courses -- probably not needed. If she wants that in the future, she can go for an MBA after working a few years. I hired hundreds of people who never took a business course in college and almost all of them figured out what they needed to know pretty quickly. Of course none of them were psych majors either as far as I know, but I have to think a psych major would be more able to pick up business norms and fit into that environment than a typical CS/Eng major.

 

[pacergal]

I doubt her college professor has any insight to her high school transcripts.
In my case, my college psych classes were more involved than my high school ones, so she may be challenged more than you think with the intro one.
What does she want to do?
College is a good time to explore interests, especially the first year.

 

[engineernerd]

I agree with cathy63 that it's best to encourage DD to figure all this out herself. I would do this even if she seems to want you to make these decisions, since a huge part of growing up and becoming independent is getting used to making your own mistakes decisions.

As for the specific choices (especially the language class), be prepared for the likelihood that which classes are available when she has room in her schedule may end up as the deciding factor.

And in her area of interest she might soon discover which professors and teaching assistants are great and which should be avoided, and letting that information guide her to take class A in this semester (or wait till next semester), and avoid class B entirely, is a great way for her to get the most from her college career. I much preferred to learn a less-exciting subject from a great teacher than what should be a really exciting subject from a pedantic droner.

Obviously your DD is an individual who may be different from me, but I found it just as easy to earn that "A" in a hard class I was really enjoying as in a low-challenge boring class. Nothing worse than worrying you will fall asleep in class.

 

[GrayHare]

A 5 in an AP class tells me she has mastered that topic, at least to the test's level, if not beyond. If it were me, I'd start with the 200 course as a freshman. I'd do the same with the foreign language if she scores well enough in the placement exam. The school tests lots of students so I'd trust their placement decision, whatever it might be, because it comes from more experience than I have.

I like your idea of encouraging her to explore business topics. It sounds like she already has a natrual interest in those, something that has carried more than one student to a matching job.

 

[SnowballCamper]

I never went to college. I spent 3 hours on a campus once to see kid sister get her law degree but other than that, I was just lucky to barely graduate high school and get on with life.

Now I'm 50 - been retired 5 years so my feeling is that despite investing, observing, reading, etc -- I'm more and more 'out of it' vis a vis workplace trends hence I'm here asking opinions.

DD: While not an elite student, I'd say - somewhat above average? 1370 SAT score. 4.09weighted GPA, perhaps (4) AP classes during high school. She will be going to a somewhat selective, private Liberal arts college where I feel the outcomes---be it career or grad school are above average.

IN High School she seemed to like Psychology. Got "5" on the AP exam. Got A-grades in Honors Behavioral Science, Honors Forensic science. She independently leafs thru books on psychology but also has a slight interest in aspects of business -- stuff like ' why does the Dunkin app place the order button here, not there' or ' how come a crew at one Starbucks is uniformly seeming upbeat---while the one down the road is the opposite". She'll read --2-3 business articles per week -- 'how the Five Below CEO incorporates store associates into her retail plans' etc. So while she likes Psychology---- we are 100% accepting that ---"we don't know, what we don't know". Could it be Psychology ---by way of licensure , ie Psy-D? Could it be ending up in Human Resources or Industrial-Occupational? One thing I feel somewhat sure about ---is this will require a Masters---or more down the road and I'm told ---getting into respected Masters /PHD program is about: GPA, Research Stints, Professor letters, internship so I wanted to ask about GPA strategy , specifically on two points:

1.)She got the A and the 5 in AP Psyche which qualifies her to skip "Introl" and do a 200 level Psyche course. Question is: What about taking the 'Intro to Psyche'..... despite her AP Class? Reasons for this thought:

*College instruction for her major's foundation - might be better than High School "teaching to the AP exam".
*Due to familiarity - maybe she can contribute substantively to discussions.
*It might be an easier "A' towards the GPA---while the freshman college transition happens.
*Between an A grade + good discussion contributions - she might get on professor's radar screen - -and get more research opportunities. (Small college. 2000 total students)
*If "Intro to Psyche" is less taxing on her---she has some time to develop college level writing skills, or other productive thins.

OR---- here's the contrary opinion:

*A professor will see she took AP Psyche, roll his or her eyes and think----this chick wanted an easy-A, big freaking deal.

If this is the case, should a 200 level course have been taken and is there merit in a professor saying ' well she's a freshman in my 200 level class...not bad at all'.


2.)Foreign Language -- the college requires 1 year of that.

I frankly don't get it. ONE year - what's the point. Either one is fluent, or not. I've seen school students who "took Spanish for a year"---speak clumsily, with American accent lol---all proud of themselves for being able to ask where the bathroom is. I personally just watched Las Noticias---(the news) and I could speak enough Spanish to make a customer feel at ease and do a transaction.

So the college makes them take a quick 'placement exam' and that decides what level course the kid places into. Again----same question.

GPA-wise---- is it better to do lousy on the placement exam---get put into the entry level language course----get the A , help GPA----but then spend that time working harder in the core and harder classes----be it Psychology, Econ, Statistics, whatever.


3.)Back to the business interest. In this unpredictable world----I felt it might be good to have some competency or even cursory knowledge of Accounting, Organizations, etc so for awhile, I felt a business minor would be good but again - IF she decides Psyche is 'her thing'--- I wonder if the GPA risk, and the extra work--isn't better off focusing on Psyche, Research, etc.

So instead of an actual "business minor'.... the idea was to -- take Econ as a regular course because it's the gateway to the business minor or major at this school. A requirement. BUT then - -take "Core" business courses like Orgonizations, and Accounting on a Satisfactory/unsatisfactory basis NOT to be lazy----but the idea was -- get the language of the boardroom. Get some basic accounting. Do a good job in those classes BUT - dont let it mess with your GPA, or dilute your focus from Psychology---if the goal is getting into a good Masters or PHD program for Psychology, HR (MHRM), Industrial -Occupational psyche, etc.

One one hand I feel "Hey, college is the place to get well rounded. Exposure , etc""

BUT --- reality is, things like GPA and research stints----seem to matter more to the above-average grad schools, instead of "oh how, you're a business minor"


ANY thoughts, opinions, out of box things------------I'd appreciate all of them.

Thanks

1. Don't waste time and money retaking a course you've already learned, especially an introductory course. Move on to the next, more developed interest.

2. I've got nothing for you. Good graduate programs in mathematics require a foreign language so you can read the foreign journals, but some accept programming languages now too.
3. Psychology + Business = Marketing, and that can be quite lucrative, and very interesting. Ask her if she has read Priceless by William Poundstone. The other way they combine is in organizational behavior, also interesting and ripe for application in many organizations to do things better or more efficiently.

Overall, I think a graduate degree is needed to get a good job with psychology/ist in the title. GPA and GRE scores and letters are what matters for grad school. For jobs there is less emphasis on GPA and more on internship and skills.

 

[TheWizard]

I'm not sure there's an actual question here...

That being said, there are many high performing HS students who will do well in various STEM fields with a good college education, often at an elite institution...

 

[Aerides]

Do not have her take that 200 level course in her first semester, or year for that matter. I did that after AP'ing English, but it was a mistake to put that extra advanced work on me while I was also adjusting to the school, to college as a whole.

Don't worry about minors until she's had some time to acclimate. Let her get there, take a reasonable first semester, and then adjust as needed.

And I'd say let her pick her classes, then discuss. Not your pick and present to her.

 

[MichealKnight]

Do not have her take that 200 level course in her first semester, or year for that matter. I did that after AP'ing English, but it was a mistake to put that extra advanced work on me while I was also adjusting to the school, to college as a whole.

Don't worry about minors until she's had some time to acclimate. Let her get there, take a reasonable first semester, and then adjust as needed.

And I'd say let her pick her classes, then discuss. Not your pick and present to her.

Thanks for replies everyone, keep them coming please. There were a few common points.....

Agreed, it should be her choice. A year ago I explained to her---that I should be able to 100% cover college---upto a Masters Degree. I did not point her to any direction but I've had the following themes: 1.)Be tough, be versatile. Methinks those qualities---and being able to see where the puck is going will be helpful for this coming generation. 2.)A 'major' and especially a Masters--- I do want an answer to "what will I do with this degree" and "here's a realistic path to that goal'. No under-water-basket-weaving stuff, and --- if you start saying "I have a passion for French History"---great----but unless you have a realistic path to a decent lifestyle---I'm a bit cool to that.

Psychology was 100% her choice. At first I was privately discouraged-- but as I delved into it I felt that those who truly focus on it---- can have multiple paths: Licenses Psychology --could be clinical. Could be schools. Also---nowadays this "industrial occupational" thing --seems to have some promise. Things like Human Resources, people analytics, UX research. Possible MHA. (Yes, all this is depending on her likes, dislikes, talents, or lack thereof over the coming 4-6 years). The only 'nudging' I do is 2-3 times a month I send her an article that I feel is Psyche/Business -- she reads it, we talk about it during a Dunkin morning. Sometimes we'll sit there and she'll tell me 'ok that lady pulling up --I bet you oat milk'....lol and I'll ask how she got to that guess---many times - she'll be right.

I saw diverging comments and I think ---neither is wrong. Let her challenge herself with a 200 level course in Freshman year----valid. BUT---let her have transition to being a college student, living without us around, etc.....part of me favors "Intro" partially for that reason.

FWIW the college is supposedly big on one-on-one meeting with an "Academic Advisor" and in the end I told DD---that it's her call, after taking counsel from the advisor.

So far she's picking it all. The *sole* suggestion I've made ---do Econ 103 Freshman year. It's good exposure to a myriad of things and, it's a requirement if one pivots to business.

My gut still says---this year will be about acclimating. (She's rarely been anywhere alone--shes like me, a homebody lol). If she is doing well, has extra time---she hopefully will do the Club stuff but also, the college seems big on writing. And they have 'peer tutors' who supposedly will help with writing ---I feel its a skill she needs to improve so maybe that can take some of the time.


OK ONE MORE for anyone - EXCEL --stuff like VLOOK, XLOOK, Pivots. I've heard---that knowing this stuff would help her during internships. And possibly as a Psyche Major in year 3/4. Any truth to that?

 

[CO-guy]

I never went to college. I spent 3 hours on a campus once to see kid sister get her law degree but other than that, I was just lucky to barely graduate high school and get on with life.

Now I'm 50 - been retired 5 years so my feeling is that despite investing, observing, reading, etc -- I'm more and more 'out of it' vis a vis workplace trends hence I'm here asking opinions.

DD: While not an elite student, I'd say - somewhat above average? 1370 SAT score. 4.09weighted GPA, perhaps (4) AP classes during high school. She will be going to a somewhat selective, private Liberal arts college where I feel the outcomes---be it career or grad school are above average.

IN High School she seemed to like Psychology. Got "5" on the AP exam. Got A-grades in Honors Behavioral Science, Honors Forensic science. She independently leafs thru books on psychology but also has a slight interest in aspects of business -- stuff like ' why does the Dunkin app place the order button here, not there' or ' how come a crew at one Starbucks is uniformly seeming upbeat---while the one down the road is the opposite". She'll read --2-3 business articles per week -- 'how the Five Below CEO incorporates store associates into her retail plans' etc. So while she likes Psychology---- we are 100% accepting that ---"we don't know, what we don't know". Could it be Psychology ---by way of licensure , ie Psy-D? Could it be ending up in Human Resources or Industrial-Occupational? One thing I feel somewhat sure about ---is this will require a Masters---or more down the road and I'm told ---getting into respected Masters /PHD program is about: GPA, Research Stints, Professor letters, internship so I wanted to ask about GPA strategy , specifically on two points:

1.)She got the A and the 5 in AP Psyche which qualifies her to skip "Introl" and do a 200 level Psyche course. Question is: What about taking the 'Intro to Psyche'..... despite her AP Class? Reasons for this thought:

*College instruction for her major's foundation - might be better than High School "teaching to the AP exam".
*Due to familiarity - maybe she can contribute substantively to discussions.
*It might be an easier "A' towards the GPA---while the freshman college transition happens.
*Between an A grade + good discussion contributions - she might get on professor's radar screen - -and get more research opportunities. (Small college. 2000 total students)
*If "Intro to Psyche" is less taxing on her---she has some time to develop college level writing skills, or other productive thins.

OR---- here's the contrary opinion:

*A professor will see she took AP Psyche, roll his or her eyes and think----this chick wanted an easy-A, big freaking deal.

If this is the case, should a 200 level course have been taken and is there merit in a professor saying ' well she's a freshman in my 200 level class...not bad at all'.


2.)Foreign Language -- the college requires 1 year of that.

I frankly don't get it. ONE year - what's the point. Either one is fluent, or not. I've seen school students who "took Spanish for a year"---speak clumsily, with American accent lol---all proud of themselves for being able to ask where the bathroom is. I personally just watched Las Noticias---(the news) and I could speak enough Spanish to make a customer feel at ease and do a transaction.

So the college makes them take a quick 'placement exam' and that decides what level course the kid places into. Again----same question.

GPA-wise---- is it better to do lousy on the placement exam---get put into the entry level language course----get the A , help GPA----but then spend that time working harder in the core and harder classes----be it Psychology, Econ, Statistics, whatever.


3.)Back to the business interest. In this unpredictable world----I felt it might be good to have some competency or even cursory knowledge of Accounting, Organizations, etc so for awhile, I felt a business minor would be good but again - IF she decides Psyche is 'her thing'--- I wonder if the GPA risk, and the extra work--isn't better off focusing on Psyche, Research, etc.

So instead of an actual "business minor'.... the idea was to -- take Econ as a regular course because it's the gateway to the business minor or major at this school. A requirement. BUT then - -take "Core" business courses like Orgonizations, and Accounting on a Satisfactory/unsatisfactory basis NOT to be lazy----but the idea was -- get the language of the boardroom. Get some basic accounting. Do a good job in those classes BUT - dont let it mess with your GPA, or dilute your focus from Psychology---if the goal is getting into a good Masters or PHD program for Psychology, HR (MHRM), Industrial -Occupational psyche, etc.

One one hand I feel "Hey, college is the place to get well rounded. Exposure , etc""

BUT --- reality is, things like GPA and research stints----seem to matter more to the above-average grad schools, instead of "oh how, you're a business minor"


ANY thoughts, opinions, out of box things------------I'd appreciate all of them.

Thanks

After reading this topic I'd like to weigh in that I think your ideas are awful. Awful in the sense that the predictable outcomes are contradictory to your stated goals for your daughter.

1) Repeating "intro" after getting a 5 on the AP:

There is a substantial body of research out there on the benefits of the AP and other similar programs (e.g., IB). Decades of validity studies have shown that students that score above a 3 on AP exams (not just a 5) perform better in subsequent coursework (200-level) than students that take the "intro" course at that school. They're easy to find online.

Beyond that, those same studies show that receiving credit for the intro-level course(s) leads students to complete additional upper-level coursework in their major and minor (i.e. where students have more time to work closely with faculty, complete independent studies, internships......all the things you already mentioned are important to future career success).

Finally, since many students that declare psychology as a major will be receiving AP credit, she would be missing out on connecting with that (large) academically motivated cohort of psychology majors in place of taking a general survey course with mostly non-majors in hopes of "impressing" some intro instructor. Awful idea.

2) Deliberately bombing a language placement exam:

The awfulness of this idea should be obvious. If she's already performing beyond the introductory level, then she might have a real chance of learning a second language in an intermediate level course. Who knows, with all that AP credit maybe she might end up with a second language as a minor. In terms of minors that can open career doors (especially in the mental health field), a second language would be tops on that list, IMO.

3) Taking business classes pass/fail to protect GPA:

This makes zero sense to me. Your daughter will do fine and if she decides to minor in business (or double minor in business and a foreign language), she'll need those grades. More generally, this idea that somehow the GPA is something to be "protected" is poor advice.

As a more general suggestion, your daughter has chosen to attend a small Liberal Arts college. A wise choice in my opinion. She will be assigned an academic advisor, someone who has successfully guided perhaps hundreds of students along their career paths. Let that person provide their experienced academic advice while mentoring your daughter. As a parent, my suggestion is to do no more than to encourage your daughter to follow their advisor's advice.

Even more generally, I believe that college is your child's "last best chance" to pursue a career that brings meaning to their lives. Don't contaminate that process by insisting that an 18-year-old needs to know what that career will be after a year, let alone before showing up on campus.

 

[CO-guy]

Thanks for replies everyone, keep them coming please. There were a few common points.....

Agreed, it should be her choice. A year ago I explained to her---that I should be able to 100% cover college---upto a Masters Degree. I did not point her to any direction but I've had the following themes: 1.)Be tough, be versatile. Methinks those qualities---and being able to see where the puck is going will be helpful for this coming generation. 2.)A 'major' and especially a Masters--- I do want an answer to "what will I do with this degree" and "here's a realistic path to that goal'. No under-water-basket-weaving stuff, and --- if you start saying "I have a passion for French History"---great----but unless you have a realistic path to a decent lifestyle---I'm a bit cool to that.

Psychology was 100% her choice. At first I was privately discouraged-- but as I delved into it I felt that those who truly focus on it---- can have multiple paths: Licenses Psychology --could be clinical. Could be schools. Also---nowadays this "industrial occupational" thing --seems to have some promise. Things like Human Resources, people analytics, UX research. Possible MHA. (Yes, all this is depending on her likes, dislikes, talents, or lack thereof over the coming 4-6 years). The only 'nudging' I do is 2-3 times a month I send her an article that I feel is Psyche/Business -- she reads it, we talk about it during a Dunkin morning. Sometimes we'll sit there and she'll tell me 'ok that lady pulling up --I bet you oat milk'....lol and I'll ask how she got to that guess---many times - she'll be right.

I saw diverging comments and I think ---neither is wrong. Let her challenge herself with a 200 level course in Freshman year----valid. BUT---let her have transition to being a college student, living without us around, etc.....part of me favors "Intro" partially for that reason.

FWIW the college is supposedly big on one-on-one meeting with an "Academic Advisor" and in the end I told DD---that it's her call, after taking counsel from the advisor.

So far she's picking it all. The *sole* suggestion I've made ---do Econ 103 Freshman year. It's good exposure to a myriad of things and, it's a requirement if one pivots to business.

My gut still says---this year will be about acclimating. (She's rarely been anywhere alone--shes like me, a homebody lol). If she is doing well, has extra time---she hopefully will do the Club stuff but also, the college seems big on writing. And they have 'peer tutors' who supposedly will help with writing ---I feel its a skill she needs to improve so maybe that can take some of the time.


OK ONE MORE for anyone - EXCEL --stuff like VLOOK, XLOOK, Pivots. I've heard---that knowing this stuff would help her during internships. And possibly as a Psyche Major in year 3/4. Any truth to that?

People learn Excel, Python or any other application when they need to use it. There are many courses on learn.microsoft.com that are completely free that are great at preparing you to use those products once the need arises.

 

[Just_Steve]

My daughter has a bachelor's in Psychology which led to working in the insurance industry which in turn led to a management position medium 6 figure salary, so while not working in the degree field she say's it helps her do her job.

Edit to add: She did her core curriculum at the community collage then transferred to state university.

 

[GoBirds]

I went to a liberal arts college.

I tested out of Spanish (college administered the test) so I did not have to take any languages even though I was encouraged to take more classes.

I passed the calculus AP exam and tested out of calc 1. It also allowed me to only take 3 classes (instead of 4) spring semester of senior year.

I majored in chemistry and minored in math.

I took some of the following classes as part of the liberal arts curriculum:
Macroeconomics
America in the 20’s
General accounting
Geology
Entry level law-type class
Writing
Art - Greek and roman
Others? Getting too old to remember

So a student can get a well rounded education.

Might be good to get a list of the core requirements for the liberal art school so she has that visibility.

There were also very few of us that did not go to grad school - I went right to “industry”. or so it seemed. It felt like the college was preparing students for post-grad - medical, law, research, etc

 

[rodi]

I'm the mom of two recent college grads. The old rules of STEM/Engineering being the ticket to a job are not valid in the current market. In fact the current market is far worse than when I got out in the 80's... and it was pretty bad for engineering back then.

Younger son - good grades in biz/finance. Job experience in college working at a motel then for a local insurance agent. (Made him decide he did not want to be in insurance despite being good at prop/casualty). Gets out - applies to well over 100 jobs. Only interview offers had glommed onto his insurance background and wanted him for insurance sales - all out of state with lowish pay. We had a heart to heart and encouraged him to look at careers that focused on 'having' a degree vs what the degree was in. That led to a discussion of careers in government - fed, state, local... which lead to discussion of careers that don't require a degree but are service oriented. He glommed onto firefighting. Does the academy. Expands his job search outside of San Diego (where there's a typical 2-5 year wait to get on with SDFD)... He starts his new job in Vermont next month. Not at all what I thought he'd be doing when he set off to get a business degree. But he's stoked.

Older son - had a non-linear path to college before he figured out he wanted to go and started taking it seriously. Fell into a love affair with Math. Ended up with an associates from community college and then transferring to UC Berkeley. Graduated last month in pure math. (moving back home the same day his younger brother is moving out.). I figured math would have lots of career options since it's the M in STEM - but ... eh... not so much. His current plan is to take the P exam for actuary stuff and apply to any and every job that's out there. He will find something.... but perhaps not doing pure math.

Their peers were all stem majors - of the engineering majors 2 of 7 got jobs in engineering... one mechE major is doing factory work and thrilled to be working. Others are working McJobs... not career but paying the bills.

Plus some kids get out in the workforce and realize they don't like the work. Just had breakfast with the firefighter son and some of his friends. One had honors in marine biology - found a job in a lab at the water plant - realizes that lab work isn't for him.... so he's looking at grad schools in an unrelated field.

So... Parents plan, advise, help support... but the young adults are going to forge their own paths...

 

[SnowballCamper]

I figured math would have lots of career options since it's the M in STEM - but ... eh... not so much. His current plan is to take the P exam for actuary stuff and apply to any and every job that's out there. He will find something.... but perhaps not doing pure math.

I'll never forget the conversation with my math faculty advisor when I changed majors to math. He was very explicit, "There is no job called mathematician." and he was right. As an ROTC cadet I didn't mind at all because the Army didn't care either.

Then when I was in graduate school (for mathematics) one of the better professors I had made a very insightful comment, "You know, the world doesn't need very many mathematicians. Four or five good ones would be enough."

 

[GrayHare]

Applied math differs from pure math. From wikipedia (so it must be correct): "Applied mathematics is the application of mathematical methods by different fields such as physics, engineering, medicine, biology, finance, business, computer science, social science, and industry." Sounds like there would be a few jobs there.

This prompts my recall of the PBS Mathnet TV show in which mathematicians took the place of detectives. They'd whip out their calculators at the crime scene and announce, "Halt! Mathematicians!" Mathnet - Wikipedia

 

[Buckeye]

A 5 in an AP class tells me she has mastered that topic, at least to the test's level, if not beyond. If it were me, I'd start with the 200 course as a freshman. I'd do the same with the foreign language if she scores well enough in the placement exam. The school tests lots of students so I'd trust their placement decision, whatever it might be, because it comes from more experience than I have.

I like your idea of encouraging her to explore business topics. It sounds like she already has a natrual interest in those, something that has carried more than one student to a matching job.

100-level course are usually quite large. I think the 200-level course will be more interesting and more fun to take rather than being a body in a big lecture hall. And she'll meet people further along in the program who could be good contacts.

 

[braumeister]

Older son - had a non-linear path to college before he figured out he wanted to go and started taking it seriously. Fell into a love affair with Math. Ended up with an associates from community college and then transferring to UC Berkeley. Graduated last month in pure math. (moving back home the same day his younger brother is moving out.). I figured math would have lots of career options since it's the M in STEM - but ... eh... not so much. His current plan is to take the P exam for actuary stuff and apply to any and every job that's out there. He will find something.... but perhaps not doing pure math.

A long time ago, I had a very good friend who had a Ph.D. in math, and really loved it. At the time, he was studying for the actuary exam, and I was very surprised when he said it was the hardest study he had ever done. It all worked out, of course, and he got a great job, but it really brought home to me the differences even in a single field like math.

 

[G-Money]

IMO...

I think there's value in starting with the 200-level psych course. The higher level work she does in psych to prepare for grad school is more important than starting at 100 or 200, but that can be aided by starting at a higher level from the start so she can pursue another advanced level course without extending the timeline to a bachelor/arts or bachelor/science graduation. I also took Psych at the 100 level and at least back then, 20 years ago, it was pretty basic. I minored in psych, 200 was way more interesting and I don't recall the workloads being all that different. If there's interest, a student will latch on to a higher level course quickly.

I wouldn't worry that a 100-level professor would think she's trying for an easy grade if she already took AP psych. Even at a small school they probably don't care or wouldn't think poorly of her if she did. What the professor thinks at a 100 or 200 level isn't the point. This is about her trajectory and most importantly, her decision and her comfort with her course load.

Foreign language (1 year) is more about exposure and learning language structure and the culture of the language more than it is about establishing fluency. The idea is that one would continue to improve their knowledge for various reasons, either to support their degree, or travel, or just having the ability to speak another language. Learning multiple languages is pretty standard in the rest of the world, so why not try to compete on a global stage? If she already has some foreign language experience, a language can be a great way to round out core curriculum requirements before starting degree work.

A business degree basically has the worth of any liberal arts degree. And I don't mean that disparagingly. It will past muster to get past application and resume crunchers because the requirement of "Must have a degree in business administration" for generic and entry level job postings. It's a gateway degree, which, unless comes with a Finance or Accounting or HR certification, is...generic. It has value, but is very broad. It's not the kind of degree that's going to place her in a boardroom as a a senior leader or executive right after college. No degree really is.

Econ courses are just good exposure in general, and if they satisfy req's for a business minor or major, even better.

In general, higher level programs love diversity in exposure and knowledge/skill, so the more rounded a person can be, that's great.

Expect that everything could change with regards to her intended path within the first year--or two. That's not a death sentence at all, it's a very good thing, and so many of the courses the first two years can be applied to an array of different programs.

IMO with undergrad programs the important parts are a) finish with purpose. Knock it out in as little time as possible to save money, but also show initiative and beat slower peers to more interesting programs and opportunities.
b) do it well, whatever you (she) does.
and c) enjoy the time in school. It's still a huge accomplishment and privilege to be there. Take every opportunity to learn, seek exposure and experience, have fun, and partner with professors, network. I sincerely hope she finds this idea as I did myself, long ago.

 

[cathy63]

I figured math would have lots of career options since it's the M in STEM - but ... eh... not so much. His current plan is to take the P exam for actuary stuff and apply to any and every job that's out there. He will find something.... but perhaps not doing pure math.

I have a nephew in pretty much the same situation. Couldn't find a job with his math degree, so he did a year at Alliant University for a teaching credential and quickly found a job teaching HS math starting next fall.

My degree is also in Math (applied sciences), but I lucked out and got an internship doing statistical analysis at IBM, which morphed into lots of other things. Unfortunately those opportunities are fewer and farther between nowadays.

 

[cathy63]

100-level course are usually quite large. I think the 200-level course will be more interesting and more fun to take rather than being a body in a big lecture hall. And she'll meet people further along in the program who could be good contacts.

In a school of only 2000 students, even the intro courses tend to be fairly small. That's one of the selling points they use to attract students.

 

[HawkOwl]

If it were me, I would encourage a child to reverse engineer the decision of what to major in. Decide first the type of life you want to lead, and then decide the path best suited to achieve it.

If they want to see the world, petroleum engineering, aviation, or something with ROTC. If they have a deep desire to help humanity (and I mean a deep, tested desire, since this easily burns out after graduation) maybe something in health care, or education. Does money matter to them? Even if they vehemently say no (and isn’t selfless altruism what school and society demand of our youth?), I suspect that they will eventually desire to have a good income. Having a clear understanding of HOW you want to live makes it easier to decide the way to get there.

I really don’t mean to be a wet blanket, but I have seen many polls citing psychology as one of the most regretted majors among graduates. Along with other “fun” majors like anthropology, art, sociology, assorted “-studies”, music, biology, etc, the sheer number of students with these majors drives up the degree level required to be employable in their field, and at the same time drives down their projected salary.

As for a foreign language, I could see it being useful as a minor, but I have a hard time believing that just a few years of study will enable a student to compete on an even level with a native speaker (as a translator, at least).

You didn’t say how this was going to be paid for. If they are going into debt, majoring in something with poor employment prospects is crushing. Even if they get a full ride (through your generosity or school scholarships) there is the opportunity cost and discouragement to consider. As others have pointed out, any “generic” major CAN be used as a stepping stone into a career in something else… but I wonder if in today’s hyper-competitive employment world, it might be better to major in whatever that eventual goal is.

IMHO, of course.

 

[Montecfo]

I think guiding your kids at college age is a really really good idea. Especially if you are paying the bills or cosigning loans. Letting them make all the decisions is how young folks spend thousands in debt and end up with a useless degree or even no degree.

Conversely I think the question of Psych 100 vs 200 in some ways misses the point being this: Is Psychology a wise major in the current or expected economic environment?

Unless the far off goal is a professorship I am more than a bit skeptical of the value, again just being quite honest.