Pete Rose

Stormy Kromer said:
Put Rose on any team you put together and they'll win more games.... forget individual stats and look in the wins column. My argument wasn't that he was the best stats leader of any team you could put together, we could all have a good argument about that all night. Of course there were better individual players with better stats. I was only saying that the individual hit leader of major league history should be an automatic in the hall of fame. Just like Clemens, Bonds, and a lot of other guys on the top of the list. I have a question for baseball purists....If you won't let them in the hall of fame why did you let them play the game all of those years when you suspected them of their vices in the first place ? You should have kicked them out when they were playing.

If Kirby Pucket got in on the first ballet with 2,000 fewer hits, that doesn't seem right. And I'm Kirby Pucket's biggest fan.
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First of all, nobody here to my knowledge has any say whatsoever about kicking them out of baseball when or keeping them out of the HOF. Everyone here has their opinions, which you may or may not agree with.

Pete Rose was banned after the Dowd report was given to the commissioner. He wasn't playing but he was managing, and kicked out at that time. Banned players aren't allowed in the HOF, no matter how good their numbers are.

Some of the juicers were suspended, during their career, but none were banned. They are eligible for the HOF but they don't get enough votes, presumably because of the feelings of many of the voters against juicing. There is no doubt that Bonds, ARod, Clemens and others have the stats to make the Hall, but the HOF isn't all about numbers.

Rose may face the same backlash from the HOF voters. Will he even be part of the regular vote, or is his route through the Veteran's Committee?

Myself, I don't care so much if he makes it or not. I'm satisfied that he was denied in his lifetime. I don't think he deserved to see the honor. Now that he's gone, I'm fine with it. I'd probably vote him in if I had a vote but I wouldn't try to influence anyone else's vote.

Barry Bonds, juiced, may be the second best player of all time. I don't put him above Ruth, especially with Ruth's wildcard of being a great pitcher as well. But no way does Barry Bonds without the PEDs come anywhere close to that.
 
robnplunder said:
Pete just texted me that it doesn't matter because he is dead.
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Heh, heh, now there's an "autograph" that would be worth something!

Be sure to get back to Pete and tell him what's going on.
 
Stormy Kromer said:
AJ Pierzinsky couldn't shine Joe Mauer's shoes. Nor a hundred better catchers than him.
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Are you even trying to understand what I wrote? How many times do I have to explain?

The first team is the one I would pick if were a GM who had his choice of anyone.

The second team is the best one I could come up with of players I would keep off of my team because they were juicers, cheaters, A-holes, kooks, or just bad teammates to have. Why would Mauer be on that team?

I even explained that I couldn't think of another catcher to fit in that 2nd team of miscreants. I'm sure there is one, I just didn't take the time to find one. If you got one who fits that category, name him.
 
Sorry, Runningbum, I didn't read you post on the second group correctly.

Lots of good players on that list. except Pierzinski....


All said and done. I think the best player in baseball history is Hank Aaron, with a close second to Willie Mays. How could you chose between the two? Babe Ruth is still the all time best as mentioned above. I never did hear anyone brag about the Babe's fielding ability like Willie Mays, although Hank Aaron was a very under rated fielder himself. Hank didn't make many waves, he just showed up and performed. How I would have loved to have played with them.

Infield, I'd take Lou Gherig.

The best pitcher is hard. I'd go with Bob Feller for dominance at a young age, then he went to the army for 4 years. Came back and did it some more.

Catcher is hard. Johnny Bench is the man to compare to. Yogi won 10 world series rings, and he had a lot to do with all of them.

Best manager ? The one with the best players....hell, I could have managed the 61 Yankees.
 
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GrayHare said:
IMO Rose was a bit too aggressive. The injury to Ray Fosse is an example. When people start getting hurt, it's too much.
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That's a pretty weak excuse. Ty Cobb was known to sharpen the spikes on his shoes and fly into fielders covering bases he was trying to reach with the spikes. No one was more aggressive on the base paths than Ty Cobb.
 
Stormy Kromer said:
Kirby Pucket got violent with women. Documented. He got in on the first vote. In fact the HOF suspended the rules so he could get voted in earlier.

The Hall of fame is watered down.....

Nobody is perfect.
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Pretty sure Puckett did not get on the ballot earlier than he was eligible for. He went to spring training in 96 but did not play a regular season game.

The reports about Puckett's violence did not come out until the year after he was voted in. Maybe there were some whisperings about it, perhaps enough that he shouldn't have been voted in. Once in, they've never removed anyone, and I'm not sure there is a procedure to do so.
 
Route246 said:
Does it at all seem ironic that MLB has embraced sports betting now?

FanDuel, DraftKings, et. al. have signed deals with MLB that include licensing, branding and access to league data, all in the name of money, it seems. Given that these are online methods to bet which can be proxied it is very simple for any player, manager or employee to bet anonymously without fear of being caught. It seems to me like a classic pact with the devil has been made and it seems like Pete Rose is being condemned for taking a drink during Prohibition or smoking a joint in a state where it is now legal to smoke.

Prostitution may be the oldest profession but betting, wagering and gambling is probably the oldest pastime.

Reminds me of this.
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But the players still can’t bet on the games.
 
I was never a big fan of Pete. I thought there were many better players in his Era, he just outlived them all. But, doesn't that seem to be what the Hall of Fame is full of ? Those who lasted the longest and put up the largest and longest career records mostly because of longevity? Yes it does. Pete has the most hit of anyone, by HOF standards that should be an automatic. If he is ever eligible.

Many others have had better single years, or even many, but to do it for 20 plus years really does set a player apart. Even if you don't like them. That's what gets players in the hall.

In my opinion, the Hall of Fame is getting too big. Too many players just because they were a little better than average. It was meant for players like Ruth, Gherig, Cobb, Williams, DiMagio, Mays, Aaron and Mantle etc... Not a guy that hit .300 for 12 years with 300 homeruns and 1,000 RBI's or so just because the fans and media liked him. Good career, but no Hall of Fame stuff.

Off my soap box.
 
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Stormy Kromer said:
I may have lost credibility, but don't disrespect Pete Rose. Runningbum, if the all time hit leader isn't in the hall of fame on the first ballot who should be?
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The rule is very clear: If you bet on baseball you will be banned for life.

If doesn't matter if you're the all time hit leader or a rookie.

Rose knew the rule before he played his first game.
 
Prominently posted in every MLB clubhouse:

  • Permanent ineligibility: Betting on baseball games where the individual has a duty to perform (e.g., a player betting on their own game) can result in permanent ineligibility from MLB.
 
IMHO, Pete Rose (and Shoeless Joe) being eligible for HOF or not isn't all about numbers but about integrity of the game. If they eventually make it to HOF, then that is like saying it was there really isn't wrong with being part of fixing a World Series or betting on a team you were managing.

If it is all about numbers, then Rose should be in HOF in a heartbeat as well as many of the steroid players. But once again, this thing called integrity.

I'm not shocked that Rose is now eligible as the commissioner has little integrity.
 
sparky08 said:
Prominently posted in every MLB clubhouse:

  • Permanent ineligibility: Betting on baseball games where the individual has a duty to perform (e.g., a player betting on their own game) can result in permanent ineligibility from MLB.
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For me the conversation starts and stops here. Rule 21.

Manfred just dismantled it to a certain degree, and that's a shame.
 
In other news, I just saw AN AI GENERATED comment by Barry Bonds on one of the social media sites. Its very funny.
 
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You can find it on Youtube. I didn't post the link because of the salty language and don't want to run afoul of moderators and the site standards.
 
RunningBum said:
What a tool. He names other juicers, who also are not in the HOF. He totally misses the point that Rose didn't get in while alive because he did own up to his mistakes and didn't do anything the commissioner wanted him to do to get reinstated. Also, he's not in yet.
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Full disclosure, I just learned that video is AI generated. I got hood winked.

Sad thing, I didn't hesitate for a second thinking Barry Bonds would have said such things.
 
Kings over Queens said:
Full disclosure, I just learned that video is AI generated. I got hood winked.

Sad thing, I didn't hesitate for a second thinking Barry Bonds would have said such things.
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I deleted my post, might be good to delete yours so nobody else is taken in.
 

Pete Rose Hall Of Fame Induction Ceremony To Be Sponsored By DraftKings​

COOPERSTOWN, NY — Despite not yet being officially elected to the prestigious and exclusive group, one late baseball player already landed a lucrative sponsorship, as it was announced that Pete Rose's Hall of Fame induction ceremony would be brought to you by DraftKings.

The long-awaited election of Major League Baseball's all-time hit leader to the Hall of Fame had not even taken place when the online sports betting website snapped up the rights to promote the event.

"It's our honor to sponsor such a special occasion," said DraftKings CEO and co-founder Jason Robins. "We're currently taking bets on how many minutes the induction speech someone will give on Pete's behalf will run. Head to DraftKings now to get in on the action!"

Pete Rose Hall Of Fame Induction Ceremony To Be Sponsored By DraftKings
 
Stormy Kromer said:
I was never a big fan of Pete. I thought there were many better players in his Era, he just outlived them all. But, doesn't that seem to be what the Hall of Fame is full of ? Those who lasted the longest and put up the largest and longest career records mostly because of longevity? Yes it does. Pete has the most hit of anyone, by HOF standards that should be an automatic. If he is ever eligible.

Many others have had better single years, or even many, but to do it for 20 plus years really does set a player apart. Even if you don't like them. That's what gets players in the hall.

In my opinion, the Hall of Fame is getting too big. Too many players just because they were a little better than average. It was meant for players like Ruth, Gherig, Cobb, Williams, DiMagio, Mays, Aaron and Mantle etc... Not a guy that hit .300 for 12 years with 300 homeruns and 1,000 RBI's or so just because the fans and media liked him. Good career, but no Hall of Fame stuff.

Off my soap box.
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Don Sutton is in the HOF. I liked him as a broadcaster, hate the Dodgers but I respected him as a pitcher and broadcaster. There is no way he should be in the HOF.
 
To all my baseball loving friends here on this forum. I apologize for any smart comments I posted above.

I am a lifelong baseball fan and enjoy the game and its players. And fans.
 
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