POLL: Dietary protein and age related decline in muscle mass

[sengsational]

After the age of 50, the average person starts loosing 1% of their muscle mass per year, and 3% of their muscle strength per year. You can expect to loose 30% to 40% of you muscle mass between age 50 and 80. To counteract this trend, you need strength training and sufficient protein intake. The more strength training, the more protein you need to make the most out of your strength training.

When it comes to food, I'm not a numbers guy. I never counted calories or grams of anything. So for the poll, I answered "Don't know, DO care."

Usually when my weight gets above where I like it, I drop to one meal a day until it's back down to where I like it. But this time I had heard some talks about how older adults are on a pretty steep drop in muscle mass, and I thought just cutting out calories might steepen that slope. So rather than just go one meal per day without any other intervention, I decided to supplement with whey protein isolate. I STILL haven't tried to count-up the protein grams per day too precisely, but I now am getting 60g/day from the whey (which is the RDA level for me), so the meat at dinner is taking me above the RDA level. I'd have to eat 1/2 pound (pre-cooked weight) of meat at dinner to get to the strength training level of daily protein. I guess I might be at that level now, but certainly wouldn't be without the whey.

If you want the whole scoop on protein, you can search "found my fitness podcast protein" and listen to the really informative Rhonda Patrick spell out the details she has collected from the experts she's interviewed. Here are a few things I took away from the podcast. The recommended dietary allowance is 0.8 grams per kg lean body weight. So say I'm 180 pounds, but I could loose 15 pounds of fat, so my lean body weight is 165 pounds or 75 kg. RDA would be 60g protein per day. But that's the minimum. If you're exercising, you need twice that (1.6 g/kg) or 120g protein per day. If you are trying to loose weight while building muscle (recomposition), Dr. Brad Schoenfeld recommends as much as 2.2 g/kg or in our example, 165g protein per day. That one is pretty easy to remember: eat the same number of grams per day as your lean body weight in pounds, which is the upper end of the scale for people strength training hard and trying to loose fat. But 1.6 g/kg is enough for most people that want to slow age related muscle atrophy. And in general, doing your training before eating is better, but it doesn't make THAT much difference when you get your protein. What does make a difference is having creatine on board, something like 3 to 5 grams per day.

I hope this thread gets someone to think a little more about their protein intake as it relates to strength training and slowing muscle mass decline. My interest in all things athletic has always been minimal, but I have a physically demanding hobby that I'm trying to keep going for at least a little while longer. We'll see how that goes.

Creatine Supplementation during Resistance Training in... : Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise

may enhance this effect. We aimed to determine whether the addition of Cr to RT increased gains in muscle mass, strength, and function in older adults over RT alone by conducting a systematic review and meta-analysis. Methods PubMed and Healthstar databases were searched. Randomized...

journals.lww.com

A systematic review of dietary protein during caloric restriction in resistance trained lean athletes: a case for higher intakes - PubMed

Protein needs for energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes are likely 2.3-3.1g/kg of FFM scaled upwards with severity of caloric restriction and leanness.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Muscle Disuse as a Pivotal Problem in Sarcopenia-related Muscle Loss and Dysfunction - PubMed

An age-associated loss of muscle mass and strength--sarcopenia--begins at around the fifth decade of life, with mass being lost at ~0.5-1.2% per year and strength at ~3% per year. Sarcopenia can contribute to a variety of negative health outcomes, including an increased risk for falls and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[aja8888]

I'm 81 1/2 and try to eat as much protein as I can and I think I do OK. But, I have lost muscle mass due to age. I exercise quite a bit and that includes walking, playing golf (more walking), using resistance bands and doing chores around here. In don't try to keep track of my protein intake, but it is a good bit.

Also, no matter how hard I try, I can't seem to build muscle anymore, only maintain what I have. I guess there is a point with old age where a significant positive change in muscle mass can't be made anymore.

 

[donheff]

I went with don't know, do care. I understand the issue and eat a lot of protein. I just don't count grams or anything. I also don't count calories. For what it's worth, I'm 76 and can still do 10-12 pullups at one go.

 

[Patience]

Macros are all the rage right now.
Protein/fat/carbohydrates
High protein, get carbs from fresh vegetables, keep fatty proteins to a minimum.

Protein and vegetables at every meal even though some mornings you just want tea.

 

[Aerides]

Maybe if you converted from KG to LB for the poll, you'd get more answers? (sorry everyone outside the US, you know how metric we are not lol). Anyway, RDA isn't going to save anyone's muscle over 35. It's just way too low.

That said, I'd ideally hit about 1.25 gm per pound, but realistically most days I don't even hit 1gm per 1 lb, because I'm also watching my total calorie intake. It's easier to pack in, say 150 gms of protein if you are eating 2000 calories a day, not so easy when you're staying under 1500, or less.

So my aim is your strength training poll bracket, but you have a big gap between that and the RDA number. I'm mostly in the middle of those.

 

[Mark1]

I drink a premier protein drink (30 grams) as part of my breakfast every day, past that I don't worry too much about the amount of protein I consume every day. Overall, I believe that the amount of strength training is a much bigger problem for most people, compared to a lack of protein intake.

 

[Golden Mean]

Voted.
Might be of interest. Video covers how protein content is actually calculated and how it is based on nitrogen content and then makes assumptions about how much of that nitrogen is actually protein.

 

[HFWR]

I supplement with whey powder and creatine shakes, partly because I do weight machines twice a week, and partly because I can’t eat another two or three chicken breasts a day, but don’t count otherwise.

 

[sengsational]

Might be of interest. Video covers how protein content is actually calculated and how it is based on nitrogen content and then makes assumptions about how much of that nitrogen is actually protein.

Ballerstedt advocates for something better than what we have on the food label (crude protein), one that takes into consideration digestibility. Surprising that if you look at other than crude protein, some foods like almonds, sunflower seeds and peanuts are not good sources of protein according to one protein measure (PDCAAS), and those, plus a whole bunch of bean varieties and tofu are not good sources of protein according to another protein measure (DIAAS). Only chickpeas make the cut. Surprising that "good plant sources of protein" like nuts and beans really don't pass muster when examined for digestibility. I had never heard of those specific protein availability measures before, but I Patrick was saying whey protein was the best supplement.

 

[euro]

Ballerstedt advocates for something better than what we have on the food label (crude protein), one that takes into consideration digestibility. Surprising that if you look at other than crude protein, some foods like almonds, sunflower seeds and peanuts are not good sources of protein according to one protein measure (PDCAAS), and those, plus a whole bunch of bean varieties and tofu are not good sources of protein according to another protein measure (DIAAS). Only chickpeas make the cut. Surprising that "good plant sources of protein" like nuts and beans really don't pass muster when examined for digestibility. I had never heard of those specific protein availability measures before, but I Patrick was saying whey protein was the best supplement.

Yes, Whey protein was emphasized on a recent Peter Attia podcast also, as by far the superior source of digestible protein

 

[Chuckanut]

I make sure to get plenty of protein and calcium every day. Since dairy foods don't bother me, I do that via milk, cheese and yogurt. Also, various meats, usually chicken and beef.

Dr. Attia has done several shows on how easy it is to lose muscle mass in old age and how hard it is get it back. Two weeks of bed ridden behavior will easily set the process of losing muscle in motion. I lost a lot of strength in my legs after my knee replacement. It took over a year of exercises to get most of it back.

Why do we lose muscle strength with age? - Peter Attia

Researchers have explored numerous contributors to loss of muscle strength with age, and it appears to boil down to two major factors: muscle quality and neuromuscular innervation.

peterattiamd.com

Unfortunately, the loss of muscle quality is inevitable, progressing intrinsically at the cellular level at multiple steps along the muscle contraction pathway. For instance, in older muscles, the excitation-contraction coupling becomes inefficient due to a decline in the number of calcium ion channels in the muscle fiber. Age is also associated with myosin structural changes that reduce its ability to remain in a strong-binding, force-generating state, so muscle contraction is weaker.

 

[wrigley]

I took Whey protein on a regular basis some years back and found after taking for a while, it started to give me headaches. I had no idea until I stopped and the headaches disappeared. I never went back to it. I don't focus on specific numbers when it comes to protein intake. I have never met a vegetable I don't like and I love chicken and fish as well. I eat three healthy meals a day and work out 4-6 days a week. When I snack it is usually fruit. My doctor is happy with my numbers, so I must be doing something right.

 

[athena53]

I' almost vegetarian and muscle mass is important to me so I watch this. If I trust my smart scale estimate that my body fat % is 75% and multiply that by my weight in kg to get lean body weight in kg I'm at the 1.6 level. My nightly snack of plain yogurt with chocolate whey protein powder helps. I also have a couple of protein bar brands I love (although the ingredient list has some unpronounceable items) and haven't counted the protein in all of the leafy green vegetables I eat, which add some but not much.

 

[braumeister]

If I trust my smart scale estimate that my body fat % is 75%

That can't be right. Typo?

 

[Aerides]

That can't be right. Typo?

I'm assuming she meant 25%?

Either way, for those of us that want to know, there are smart scales that report your actual muscle percent or pounds as well. I'm not sure exactly how accurate they are, but as long as they are consistent, it's a good way to keep check, especially if also managing weight.

No point in cheering that you lost 2lbs if that was muscle!

 

[braumeister]

I eat plenty of protein, no problem there. But I have no interest in counting grams so I would have to say I don't care. I do actually care, and I'm certain I eat at least enough to stay healthy, but just no interest in the numbers.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

I eat a ketogenic diet and I include a lot of meat. I nearly always get over 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. I weight train 4-5 days a week and feel amazing. This diet and exercise regimen has taken decades off of how old i feel.

 

[hopefullyoneday]

Make sure your testosterone is at the proper level. Had to go off my trt for 6 weeks to get a accurate number for my new primary care doctor to prescribe me some. I was just above 200 at the end of the 6 weeks. I am back up to around 650 now at age 53 and eat a lot of tuna steaks and eggs. Also some broccoli and salads. Packing muscle back on now while losing fat. Wife says i look as good now as i did back in my 30s.

 

[athena53]

That can't be right. Typo?

Oops. Fat is 25%, lean is 75%.

 

[sengsational]

I eat plenty of protein, no problem there. But I have no interest in counting grams so I would have to say I don't care. I do actually care, and I'm certain I eat at least enough to stay healthy, but just no interest in the numbers.

That's me. Never counted anything when it came to food, nor do I want to do that going forward. Once I know I'm getting plenty of protein, I can just keep up that pattern. My almost son in law counted protein grams in an app for two years. He can look at a plate and quote an accurate number. I weighed, looked up, and totalled my plate, and he was less than 5% off!

 

[Healthy Lifestyle]

I supplement regularly with whey protein isolate and eat a very healthy diet with minimal processed food.

I resistance train at the gym 4-5 days a week and am lean with more muscle growth today at age 68.

Only down side of too much protein for me, is it appears to be constipation issues, So I try to stay within 80-90% of my body weight.

 

[MarieIG]

I have been for the most part OMAD, but have found it difficult to get in as much protein as I want with one meal a day, and sometimes add a second meal. Now, I'm no mathematician, but I know my can of salmon has 34 grams of protein, an egg about six, four ounces of cooked beef or chicken circa 25, etc., so it's not onerous for me to count protein grams. I don't count fat or carbs although I don't eat sugars and typically avoid grains which are problematic for me. If I want non-starchy vegetables, I eat them.

I am also taking collagen peptides (which are not a complete protein) but allegedly have some skin benefits and muscle preservation benefits. My protein powder is beef isolate protein (Centurion) unflavored, unsweetened, which is 24 grams for one scoop and is easy for me to get down.

In theory, I would like to consume one gram of protein for ideal body weight but oh, that's a job.

 

[sengsational]

Only down side of too much protein for me, is it appears to be constipation issues, So I try to stay within 80-90% of my body weight.

The almost son in law said he quit whey because of "digestive issues", maybe this. He's gone with eggs instead. I discovered mixed nuts is a great way for me to keep going, and also get lots of bio available trace minerals. And so far, I haven't noticed whey causing headaches.

 

[pacergal]

I don't count the grams of protein I eat every day, but I do get some each meal.
Usually a protein bar or shake for breakfast, cheese or yogurt as part of lunch,
some meat, beans or eggs for dinner.

 

[homestead]

I like eating lots of protein and have recently cut out sugar from my diet so I have been slowly losing body fat.
Can tell at the gym that I haven't lost any muscle.
Was thinking of going on carnivore or keto diet but saw where a study of those diets caused accelerated aging of organs in mice so I
guess I will stick with a more balanced diet.