POLL: Dietary protein and age related decline in muscle mass

[Chuckanut]

The article I read said that the high lead and cadmium levels were in the chocolate powders due to the chocolate. Chocolate (and cocoa and cacao) are heavily contaminated with these metals despite being sometimes touted as healthy for you.

Thank you for mentioning the above. It is a great example of how we are often mislead in regards to food safety and quality. Simply buy the plain unflavored whey protein and add your own flavored ingredients to it.

One form of a food can be more dangerous than other forms of the same food.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

+1 vote for the Mediterranean diet is better because the quality of the food is better. Years ago I stopped eating American foods with wheat because they made me feel terrible and my allergies flare up. 2 years ago, I walked the Camino de Santiago in Spain 2 years ago and ate pastries for breakfast EVERY DAY (it was sometimes all they had), for 5 weeks and I felt fine. I thought I was over that allergy and ate a hamburger in the airport on the way home and had a horrible allergy attack. Our food quality is terrible, and in this country I have to eat meat and green veggies to feel good. But honestly, since I've made the switch, I feel amazing. I have SO much energy, and all my aches and pains have disappeared.

 

[razztazz]

The article I read said that the high lead and cadmium levels were in the chocolate powders due to the chocolate. Chocolate (and cocoa and cacao) are heavily contaminated with these metals despite being sometimes touted as healthy for you.

I don't really worry about it. If I could survive growing up in the era of plumbiferous gasoline, I figure a little cocoa is nothing.

Just to be sure. If I am drinking a flavor other than chocolate, I'm fine? Why is it that chocolate picks up heavy metals?

 

[Sanstar]

Re: wheat allergies. I’m in the same boat. Anything wheat makes me sneeze nonstop. Even walking down the bread aisle in a grocery store. Just discovered this a year ago and will stick with wheat free/ mostly plant based, with occasional Alaska salmon for protein. Feel so much better and no need for allergy meds.

 

[Chuckanut]

Just to be sure. If I am drinking a flavor other than chocolate, I'm fine? Why is it that chocolate picks up heavy metals?

Apparently, chocolate is grown in soils that often have a lot of heavy metals in them. They accumulate in the pods that eventually become chocolate.

Also the process of drying the pods and extracting the chocolate may introduce some metals like lead. Consumer Reports had a good article on this a few months ago.

https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-safety/lead-and-cadmium-in-dark-chocolate-a8480295550/

The researchers found that cacao plants take up cadmium from the soil, with the metal accumulating in cacao beans as the tree grows. That’s similar to how heavy metals contaminate some other foods.


But lead seems to get into cacao after beans are harvested. The researchers found that the metal was typically on the outer shell of the cocoa bean, not in the bean itself. Moreover, lead levels were low soon after beans were picked and removed from pods but increased as beans dried in the sun for days. During that time, lead-filled dust and dirt accumulated on the beans. “We collected beans on the ground that were heavily loaded with lead on the outer shell,” DiBartolomeis says.

 

[Healthy Lifestyle]

I answerred 1.6 but I find that nearly impossible to attain. I only eat 2 meals a day (64 yr old) to maintain weight. I have stopped whey and powdered proteins after reading that many of them contain metals and have not been willing to pay a premium for cleaner brands. Eggs/Greek yogurt/poultry are my go to's

I have been using Gold Standard “double chocolate” Whey Protein Powder for last 2 years and enjoy the taste in oatmeal, yogurt and milk.
My average daily protein level is ~125gms, 68y, 145lbs. At the gym 4-5 days a week.

 

[audreyh1]

The article I read said that the high lead and cadmium levels were in the chocolate powders due to the chocolate. Chocolate (and cocoa and cacao) are heavily contaminated with these metals despite being sometimes touted as healthy for you.

I don't really worry about it. If I could survive growing up in the era of plumbiferous gasoline, I figure a little cocoa is nothing.

It totally depends on the manufacturer. Based on the Consumer Reports testing we had switched from Green and Black 85% to Ghirardelli 85%.

 

[Turbo29]

Just to be sure. If I am drinking a flavor other than chocolate, I'm fine? Why is it that chocolate picks up heavy metals?

The CNN article says, "Over-the-counter protein powders may contain disturbing levels of lead and cadmium, with the highest amounts found in plant-based, organic and chocolate-flavored products, according to a new investigation."

It further goes on to say, "Over-the-counter protein powders may contain disturbing levels of lead and cadmium, with the highest amounts found in plant-based, organic and chocolate-flavored products, according to a new investigation. Plant-based powders, such as those made from soy, rice, peas and other plants, contained three times more lead than whey-based products, according to the report." And, “Chocolate-flavored protein powders contained four times more lead and up to 110 times more cadmium than vanilla-flavored powders,”
Lead and cadmium found in muscle-building protein powders, report says

Consumer Reports has an article addressing chocolate: A Third of Chocolate Products Are High in Heavy Metals, CR's Tests Find

 

[CoAndy]

I began doing CrossFit in May 2019 at age 48. Went very well. Love the intense workouts and community. However, last summer I met with Jason Grubb, who is the Masters CrossFit games champion, and after discussions with him, I began eating a pound of lean ground beef several days a week. This was last summer. Since that time, I have probably put on 4-5 pounds of muscle. I am 54. No doubt I saw a huge difference. I now swap out the pound of ground beef for ground chicken often (cheaper and leaner) and eat it with a cup of Jasmine rice. Delicious. I also enjoy a protein shake daily.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

I am fascinated by this old photo of identical twin brothers where at a young age, one took up long distance running and the other weight lifting.

Notably, the lifter was 35 lbs heavier than the runner, but the runner’s heart was about 25% larger and his maximal oxygen uptake more than 50% greater than his brother’s.

Unfortunately, I could not find any follow up information regarding diet differences or long term health outcomes.

 

[aja8888]

I am fascinated by this old photo of identical twin brothers where at a young age, one took up long distance running and the other weight lifting.

Notably, the lifter was 35 lbs heavier than the runner, but the runner’s heart was about 25% larger and his maximal oxygen uptake more than 50% greater than his brother’s.

Unfortunately, I could not find any follow up information regarding diet differences or long term health outcomes.

View attachment 55032

The guy on the left looks like me when I was a long distance runner (I was 5' 11" tall, 149 pounds, age 32)

 

[bjorn2bwild]

The guy on the left looks like me when I was a long distance runner (I was 5' 11" tall, 149 pounds, age 32)

I straddle the line with both endurance sports and weight lifting, so my physique is somewhere between the two. Why bet on just one horse?
Interesting to me, their calf muscles are roughly the same size.

 

[HFWR]

I straddle the line with both endurance sports and weight lifting, so my physique is somewhere between the two. Why bet on just one horse?
Interesting to me, their calf muscles are roughly the same size.

Arms and chest are the vanilty muscles.

 

[Chuckanut]

From what I have read strength seems to correlate with a longer health span and life span. However, so does thinks like the heart's ability to move blood and oxygen through the body. Perhaps both these young men might be better off being somewhat more like the other? I don't know. Human health is complicated.

 

[dixonge]

I'm curious how some of you reconcile high animal protein consumption with what has been observed from populations with the greatest longevity? Mediterranean and so-called "Blue Zone" diets where plant-based foods dominate, red meat consumption is minimal, and some fish is consumed, are what the world's longest-living populations typically eat.

The 'blue zone' data was quite lacking in the authors' scrutiny, as it turns out...

UCL demographer’s work debunking ‘Blue Zone’ regions of exceptional lifespans wins Ig Nobel prize

A study by Dr Saul Justin Newman (Centre for Longitudinal Studies) has won the first-ever Ig Nobel award in Demography at this year’s 34th Ig Nobel Prizes.

www.ucl.ac.uk

 

[donheff]

The 'blue zone' data was quite lacking in the authors' scrutiny, as it turns out...

UCL demographer’s work debunking ‘Blue Zone’ regions of exceptional lifespans wins Ig Nobel prize

A study by Dr Saul Justin Newman (Centre for Longitudinal Studies) has won the first-ever Ig Nobel award in Demography at this year’s 34th Ig Nobel Prizes.

www.ucl.ac.uk

Great find dixonge. "Many, if not most of the centenarians in the ‘Blue Zone’ have turned out to be alive in the government records but were deceased in reality. "

 

[Chuckanut]

It is important to differentiate red meat this is highly processed (hotdogs, lunch meats, meat in frozen dinners, etc.) from an ordinary cut of meat. Processed meats seem to be the villain.

It’s not just the food, it’s what they do to the food that is often the problem. Less processing is better.

Studies that avoid this difference are questionable, IMO.

 

[Dee]

Peptides are going to change our ability to grow and/or maintain muscle as we age. I'm not a doctor, but I read many books written by doctors and medical research scientists.

Examples of GH peptides are: Tesamorelin, Ipamorelin, Sermorelin, GHRP-2 and 6.

If you haven't heard about peptides, you will be astounded about what they do and how they do it. For current examples, LLY's and NVO's Wegovey, Semaglutide, Tirzepitide, etc.; but the research pipelines are loaded with over 500 peptides in various stages of research. Those available in the present marketplace are mostly "illegal" for anything but "research" until the FDA gives their stamp of approval which is a very long, tedious, EXPENSIVE, process. Afterall, what good will these miracle molecules do for anybody if they're prohibitively expensive and under the control of pharma companies? I think we're going to see that change under present administration, but for now it's enough to become knowledgeable of those that pertain most effectively to muscle growth -- without such interventions, humans become frail as they reach 70+, no matter how much effort put into workouts.

For muscle growth, we need growth hormone (GH) and GH releasing peptides. Additionally, we need balanced BHRT (sex hormones like testosterone have a lot to do with muscle growth, but not by itself). I clearly understand the FDA's purpose, but we need to loosen their grip on life-changing therapies that have already been tested extensively. At some point, we will either die waiting for FDA approvals, or find ways to work around them and decide ourselves how much risk we're willing to take. What's the alternative -- grow frail and sick?

Amazon has a lot of current books on peptides that explain the history and where we are at in the peptide revolution. Grab a book (quick read is 'Peptides Made Simple', very basic but good for beginners).

Btw, read up on Mitochondria and Telomere peptides -- remarkable. Good wishes for your good health !

 

[Dee]

The 'blue zone' data was quite lacking in the authors' scrutiny, as it turns out...

UCL demographer’s work debunking ‘Blue Zone’ regions of exceptional lifespans wins Ig Nobel prize

A study by Dr Saul Justin Newman (Centre for Longitudinal Studies) has won the first-ever Ig Nobel award in Demography at this year’s 34th Ig Nobel Prizes.

www.ucl.ac.uk

Good points! I'm informed about Blue Zones and I'm educated in nutrition. Animal products should be low in consumption for a variety of reasons -- suffice to say, animal products of the 4-legged variety should mostly be avoided ("white meat" included). We can get abundant protein from plants if you know your nutrition -- green peas, chia seeds, several grains, seaweeds, dulse, etc. American traditional 'farmer food' should be avoided, like potatoes and corn, again for various reasons. I've made the effort to forget the foods my mother made, and learn a whole new way to eat. Takes effort, but our time in retirement is for doing those things we never had time for previously. Get smart, read cutting edge nutrition to live your best and still enjoy food -- I sure do.

 

[FD1000]

My son has been into health food for years, did a lot of research, and came to the conclusion that most research uses association, not causation. I also have done a lot of this too.
Several observations:
1) American companies are the worst; if they can make a dime more per serving, they don't mind poisoning the world. This is where capitalism stinks.
2) When you go to buy food, concentrate on the food near the walls. Buy everything fresh, nothing in a box. I love chocolate; I'm never giving it up.
3) Eating in moderation is difficult for most. The only way to satisfy your hunger is to eat more protein. That doesn't mean only meat. Hard cheeses are great. Yogurt 5% from Fage or Aldi are a good choice. 3 eggs per day is another good choice.
4) You must eat more protein as you get older. The recommended amount is 60, go for 100. I used to play a lot of soccer, basketball, and others, but at age 60 I quit them all. I had too many injuries; Since I have been healthy for 8 years. Maybe 2 Advils per year. I found out a year ago that I'm getting tired too often. I would come after one hour at the gym exhausted. I didn't realized it in the last 5 years until my son pointed it out.
My daily protein was about 40; I increased it to 80-100. My muscles are back, and I feel great again. I also added 15-25 powder. If I gain 3+ pounds, I take it down. I watch my weight daily; how can you gain 5 pounds and dismiss it? Maybe it's just me.
The powder: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071JG5QYT. It has a good price and great reviews.
5) I have been playing Bridge for years with many in their 80-90s. It's great for social and brain. I asked every person aged 80+ what their secret is. None. They eat everything in moderation, they have average weight, some are happy, some are not, some were athletes, and some did hardly anything. I could not find any common ground.

 

[dixonge]

Animal products should be low in consumption for a variety of reasons -- suffice to say, animal products of the 4-legged variety should mostly be avoided ("white meat" included). We can get abundant protein from plants if you know your nutrition -- green peas, chia seeds, several grains, seaweeds, dulse, etc.

"While plant-based foods do contain lysine and leucine, the levels are much lower than what’s typically found in animal proteins. More concerning, only a small fraction of these amino acids were being absorbed by the body; the rest were simply being excreted."

Bioavailability and compounds which interfere with absorption are major issues on a vegan diet. This is but one of many studies revealing some of the problems:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/are-vegans-missing-out-on-muscles-study-reveals-shocking-pitfalls-in-plant-based-diets/articleshow/120382937.cms

We just completed 9 years of being vegan. I never worried about protein or vitamins and minerals the whole time, and yet I really should have...

 

[sengsational]

We just completed 9 years of being vegan. I never worried about protein or vitamins and minerals the whole time, and yet I really should have...

I've never tried vegan or vegetarian but took a food science course (a long time ago), I thought I understood essential amino acids and thought vegans could easily get what was required for good health. But the video on an early reply in this thread made me realize how flawed my thinking has been all these years. The label protein grams just isn't nearly enough information. It's almost like vegans need a calculator, at least until they figure out combinations of foods that add up to the right absorption levels.

Ballerstedt advocates for something better than what we have on the food label (crude protein), one that takes into consideration digestibility. Surprising that if you look at other than crude protein, some foods like almonds, sunflower seeds and peanuts are not good sources of protein according to one protein measure (PDCAAS), and those, plus a whole bunch of bean varieties and tofu are not good sources of protein according to another protein measure (DIAAS). Only chickpeas make the cut. Surprising that "good plant sources of protein" like nuts and beans really don't pass muster when examined for digestibility. I had never heard of those specific protein availability measures before, but Patrick was saying whey protein was the best supplement.

 

[FREE866]

I've never tried vegan or vegetarian but took a food science course (a long time ago), I thought I understood essential amino acids and thought vegans could easily get what was required for good health. But the video on an early reply in this thread made me realize how flawed my thinking has been all these years. The label protein grams just isn't nearly enough information. It's almost like vegans need a calculator, at least until they figure out combinations of foods that add up to the right absorption levels.

Ehhh, I don't know about all that. My experience tells me otherwise. I've been vegan for 15+ years, am 58 years old and am in excellent health based on my yearly physical examinations. Take zero medications. I also personally know vegan bodybuilders.

 

[sengsational]

I think you have figured out the right food combinations for good absorption. There's certainly a lot of support for getting it right, even if it's just "this is what my vegan parents did, and that's the way I do it." Things that don't work don't propagate, things that do work are adopted...no calculator needed. Someone like me, with no background would have to be pretty analytical to get it right.

 

[Healthy Lifestyle]

To add, I continue to use whey protein powder (double chocolate) as I like the taste of it mixed in yogurt, oatmeal, etc.

If I respond to every report that says this or that is good or bad for you, my conscience would leave me always confused.

Example, toxic metals found in chocolate, microplastics in every living thing, Teflon frying pans ,etc.

I am still alive and feel healthy in retirement.