Price of homes sort of shocked me

The article about Steamboat is over a year old, and since then, they voted AGAINST allowing the affordable housing at Brown's Ranch.

Let the workers continue to live in vans down by the river. Except wait, that isn't allowed. Let them commute from Craig, I guess, only 42 miles away, with houses for *only* $300k! Way better than the situation near Aspen, Vail and Telluride.
I wish those seasonal workers would just bail and go find jobs somewhere else. Bring everything to a crashing halt. That's really the only way that anything will change. Make it undesirable for the rich and you'll see change happen overnight.
 
I left living in a large metro area 5 years ago. I miss none of what they offer and can’t think of any reason to ever live in one again. I’ve been to Penn many times. Not my vibe. Give me the Rocky Mountain West. The biggest difference isn’t just scenery, it’s the people. People out west just seem more open, casual and definitely more outdoor adventurous.
In the 70s we used to hich from Pgh to Boulder and the Rocky Mtn Nat Pk and we enjoyed the Rocky Mountain High. In my adult years I've been there multiple times and as my nature has it , I always enjoyed it. I did most of my education in the Pgh area but moved to 'cow town' -Columbus, from a 1975 perspective. When I reflect back, Pgh was 'almost heaven' -after all it is next door to WVA.
The thing about CO is it's is far from everything; and to get someplace else, it is a long and often boring or treacherous drive. I want to get back there again however.
 
The thing about CO is it's is far from everything; and to get someplace else, it is a long and often boring or treacherous drive. I want to get back there again however.
Yes and no. Co is far from civilization, but not from the great outdoors. I grew up in the DFW area. I move to Co 25 years ago. I always tell people I live on the edge of civilization. I can be out in nature by myself in less than 30 minutes. There are so many National Parks and National Monuments in this part of the country. Co is a great place to jump off from to explore this part of the country.

The long, boring drives are in the eyes of the beholder. I agree that heading east may seem boring, but there are some gems out there. One just has to get off the interstates and look. I really enjoy the area. The mountain west states are simply amazing. I don't think I could ever run out of places to go and enjoy. I've never been to the northeast, but it amazes me how close everything is out there.

As far as treacherous goes, that is certainly the truth. One needs to be very aware of weather conditions and the lack of cellular coverage and people in certain areas.
 
There are affordable houses out there. They just aren't around any employment that most of us would consider acceptable, and that's the issue.

Here's a youtube channel in which a lady touts affordable homes under $100k, most under $50k, and most of those are even habitable although as one should expect many need lots of elbow grease, paint, and maybe some serious maintenance. But they are affordable homes. I don't know her, I just stumbled across the channel looking for something else and thought it interesting. The "gotcha" in most of them I suppose, or at least the ones in areas that I'm familiar with, is that there probably isn't a decent job within 30 miles or more unless it's in medical care or government.

 
I wish those seasonal workers would just bail and go find jobs somewhere else. Bring everything to a crashing halt. That's really the only way that anything will change. Make it undesirable for the rich and you'll see change happen overnight.
I'd say feelings are often mixed. Other than tourism, the largest employment sector in many of these resort areas in Colorado are ranching and farming. Things like mending fences, digging irrigation ditches, and other labor intensive parts of ranching have been done by people that have been coming seasonally since before these ski resorts started. Further, depending on the area, most or all of those folks doing that hard ranch labor haven't been Americans for quite some time; literally generations.

Wages for this type of work have steadily increased over time, but the current pay range is $200-$250/day, paid in cash at the end of the day. To be clear, that's not a living wage in these areas. However, when you're sleeping in barns, abandoned ranch buildings and old trailers, there's plenty to send home to a family. Winters are more difficult, but there's lots of snow to shovel if they can find a trailer to share with 12-15 other guys.

On the other hand, most ski resorts have dorm style employee housing, so that's not where the pain points are in these communities. It's the rest of the service sector composed of people willing to sleep in a vehicle, camper, tent or other free housing that get hired before Memorial Day and then can't find a couch to sleep on by Oct./Nov. when it's too cold to remain outside at night. That's when limited hours, limited menus and other issues related to lack of staff start happening, and that's been happening for a while.

The other big pain point isn't seasonal at all. The ordinary people that make a town function --doctors/nurses, teachers, bus drivers, police, health and human services employees, town planners, sanitation and waste treatment folks and other essential positions-- can't afford to live there and so many of those positions are going unfilled. This has major implications for essential services.
 
There are affordable houses out there. They just aren't around any employment that most of us would consider acceptable, and that's the issue

Yeah, check out this current listing in south Georgia where I grew up. It is ridiculously cheap in south Georgia lol...3bd partial brick house on near half acre for $124k?

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There are affordable houses out there. They just aren't around any employment that most of us would consider acceptable, and that's the issue.

Here's a youtube channel in which a lady touts affordable homes under $100k, most under $50k, and most of those are even habitable although as one should expect many need lots of elbow grease, paint, and maybe some serious maintenance. But they are affordable homes. I don't know her, I just stumbled across the channel looking for something else and thought it interesting. The "gotcha" in most of them I suppose, or at least the ones in areas that I'm familiar with, is that there probably isn't a decent job within 30 miles or more unless it's in medical care or government.

In 2019, we were looking for the place to which we would retire. Jobs were not an issue. We literally considered every corner of the USA. Now everyone can look at Zillow or realtor.com and see what houses go for anywhere in the US. At that time, I was astounded by how cheap real estate was in places like Southern IN/IL, MO, IA. At that time, you could get a 100 acre hardwood forest with a lake and a decent house for $300k. About double that now, but still a bargain compared to a lot of the country.

The problem is that you are stuck in the “Humid Continental" climate zone. We did our time there, no desire to go back to that. People complain about Florida? At least 90% of people in FL are close enough to the coast to get the benefit of the ocean. Places like Southern IL/IN, and MO are absolutely brutal in the summer. 100F and 90% humidity doesn't seem like it should be possible, but I've experienced it, and it ain't good. Hot in summer, cold in winter, humid always.

There are plenty of totally fine houses in those areas for under $100K. For the cost of a tiny house in CO ($500k), you could get dang near a mansion in that strip. Nope. Another small issue with that area: what were believed to be some of the largest earthquakes ever in North America were near New Madrid, MO in 1811-1812. "Between December 16, 1811, and February 7, 1812, seven earthquakes of magnitude 6.0 to 7.5 on the Richter scale and numerous lesser aftershocks ravaged the affected area. They were among the most intense earthquakes in US history and by far the largest to occur east of the Rocky Mountains."



 
Prices in Winter Haven, FL are actually dropping ..... 3 years ago 1500sqft home 8 years was selling for $265k, today those same homes are selling for $220K
 
Prices in Winter Haven, FL are actually dropping ..... 3 years ago 1500sqft home 8 years was selling for $265k, today those same homes are selling for $220K
Builders have dropped the prices of new homes around here (north of Houston) a flat 10% and are buying down mortgage rates for the first three years.
 
Add to that all the people who have two homes. That's soaking up labor resources and housing supply.

I have enough to do with my one house. But a lot of our church friends have two. A lot on this board have two.
It's true. We moved to a neighborhood in NH where 3/4 of the owners are second homeowners- part-timers from Massachusetts (where else?) or snowbirds. And it's getting to the point where anytime a house here goes up for sale instead of it being a full timer like many years ago, it is a second homeowner. Sell in one day with no effort. Crazy prices. The area where we live is vacation land for Bostonians and the surrounds there.
 
my grandfathers house was built for 2k and got to 20k, my fathers house was 20k and went well past 200k, my house was 200k and will make 2000k before I am dead. The only way to analyze exponential growth in the money supply is via semi logarithmic chart.

As the doubling of money supply roars along, so must the assets it values. Remember, $/house is a ratio. Its not the house value that is shifting. Look at Gold/house for reference. We are inside the sovereign default, looking out. Hard to see the financial horizon with this much monetary quicksand shifting around.
 
Add to that all the people who have two homes. That's soaking up labor resources and housing supply.

I have enough to do with my one house. But a lot of our church friends have two. A lot on this board have two. This was not typical a generation ago.
I live in Atlanta, where 20% of homes are owned by corporate landlords. 11% owned by just 3 corporations. When my son attended UGA in Athens, a city with a terrible housing crisis, I was appalled at how many of the condos and homes were airbnb's or second homes for rich alumni to use when attending the games.
 
Add to that all the people who have two homes. That's soaking up labor resources and housing supply.

I have enough to do with my one house. But a lot of our church friends have two. A lot on this board have two. This was not typical a generation ago.
Totally agree.

And those few individuals who did have a second home when I was a kid, a select few of many great aunts and uncles, these second homes aren’t what they once were in the past.

Second homes now are luxurious, every amenity possible, spacious, better than many live in as their primary home.

A second home amongst these more distant relatives was definitely seasonal. You had a hand pump for water, dumped a 5 gallon bucket of water in the tank to flush the toilet. Or a chemical toilet and a small cottage or a trailer on leased land, centrally located showers and plumbing, you hauled fresh water to your cottage. And these were on leased land or land obtained cheaply, improved over time, these being limited in scope. My uncles and aunts were a bit established when they got these places, probably in their 30s, and by the time I came around, they were retired and in their 70s. As a kid, the rustic lifestyle was fun. Kids today wouldn’t even think these places to be habitable.

What has happened to society is that everyone thinks they deserve the very best in life, a first class lifestyle. Which is why cruise ships look like floating hotels. Go back to the days of the Titanic. The lucky few were in first class, a few more in second class, and the vast majority were in third class. Look at where your ancestors would have been at that time had they traveled, and most likely third class.

So, the masses cannot all have luxury homes and multiple ones, and there are more “masses” today than in the past, and so something has to give and with increased demand and less supply, the first time homebuyer gets the squeeze.

It still has to be a select few who have a second home or more, but you turn on the TV or talk to associates and it sounds like everyone but you has one.
 
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Around here: inventory is up, prices are stable for about the last year. All markets are local, but this trend mirrors the USA as a whole. In my neighborhood, I'm finally seeing houses last for more than a day. The usual is becoming a few weeks. One home was just taken off the market after multiple price drops after 3 months. Looks like they are doing renovations to freshen it up for sale now.

Prices are still shocking, but a few years of this will help bring back some sanity.
 
Keep in mind, the entire ecosystem of small business around construction was wiped out in 08. All the boomers closed up shop. We spent at least 30 years demonizing the trades and sending everyone off to College U. Reality is returning. Trades pay better and have no student debt or delayed adulthood. It will still take a decade to start new biz and build viable housing business models with far less labor and new construction methods. The old houses might end up as Edsels. No parts, no labor to fix, like handbuilt wooden windows.

Our housing debts pushed the world economy into the ditch, now no one trusts us! We are the only nation to put SALT, mortgage costs, and many other housing costs into the tax code, not to mention the central bank holding housing debt as collateral by nationalizing Fannie/Freddie.

Now add in the money printing during Covid. The ongoing sovereign debt collapse.

Any industry that sees radical changes in costs of labor and capital, availability of labor and capital, total collapse of existing capitalist business is bound to see price rises.

Given the history of subsidized mortgages and inflation protection, color me unsurprised at wild swings in housing pricing in the one well known inflation protected asset accessible to middle class folks.

High demand, low supply.

I am not swayed by moral arguments that some have 2 while others have none. I heard this in the 60's with cars.

I think the zoning, parking, and permitting issues are covered well enough by the good folks at StrongTowns.org.
 
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