problem with city agreement

[frank]

A couple of years ago the city where I live wanted to buy a piece of my land to add turning lanes to the intersection. I agreed to sell them with the caveat that if they could not give me 5 foot of green space between the inside of the curb and the outer edge of the sidewalk which I would need in order to be able to have a buffer for snow when the winter comes. they agreed to the 5 foot and the purchase agreement was signed and notarized by the city and myself. Now the sidewalk is complete and the promised 5 foot is not there. I contacted the city admin and they are pretty much stonewalling me on the subject. I would like to get something set up with them before winter, but cannot seem to get any kind of cooperation from them. how would you proceed with making the city live up to their agreement? I don't know if this subject is allowed or too controversial and if it is just delete it. I do not want to have to hire a lawyer and am out of ideas.

 

[Aerides]

1 - do you have this all in writing, with diagrams, where it's very clear what should have happened? (and take a lot of pics of what is now there for your case).

2 - you need a lawyer.

 

[frank]

have the diagrams and can take the pics anytime. trying to deal with the city administrator before going with lawyer. and yes the agreement is in writing and signed by the city and myself and notarized.

 

[latexman]

You may want to inform the City's lead attorney before you contact your attorney. Sounds like the City is in the wrong, and I doubt he wants a loss on his record.

 

[CardsFan]

have the diagrams and can take the pics anytime. trying to deal with the city administrator before going with lawyer. and yes the agreement is in writing and signed by the city and myself and notarized.

The time to make them get it right was before/during the construction. If the 5 feet was important to me, I would have been out there measuring as soon as I could figure out what they were doing. Or maybe even ask for a copy of the plans when they started. It seems like they should be available to the public.

So, at this point, have you thought about what it would take for you to drop the issue? Because I find it hard to believe they will re-engineer and spend the money to make it as agreed unless the fix is awful simple. And even if you ultimately prevail, I expect it will be several years before any fix is implemented.

 

[pb4uski]

+1 if it's as clear cut as you describe write a letter objecting to what they did and threaten legal action if they do not remedy the situation to comply with the original agreement.

 

[frank]

I spoke with the head of the department of public works many times before and during the construction, and he said I would have the 5 feet of green space. what I am try to do is to get them to do the snow removal on the sidewalk as they agreed. They have 3 lanes of traffic that will be pushing half of that snow onto my sidewalk, I do not have the equipment for the snow removal and do not want to purchase or maintain the type of equipment I would need. think compact tractor with endloader. I would be willing to do the snow removal as long as my snowblower could handle it but after that I am lost. last year they pushed the snow into the area where they put the sidewalk this spring and some had pile of snow 6 ft. high. I think if it comes to it I would consult an attorney, but I am trying to get this settled amicably.

 

[Midpack]

You may want to inform the City's lead attorney before you contact your attorney. Sounds like the City is in the wrong, and I doubt he wants a loss on his record.

The time to make them get it right was before/during the construction. If the 5 feet was important to me, I would have been out there measuring as soon as I could figure out what they were doing. Or maybe even ask for a copy of the plans when they started. It seems like they should be available to the public.

+1 on both.

 

[dmpi]

I wouldn't worry about the contractors being required to redo the whole thing. I've seen many mistakes get redone. I've seen a huge retaining wall get taken down and moved a foot or so. Must of cost a hundred thousand.

 

[Texas Proud]

I am not a lawyer but will go a bit lawyerly on you...

Is 'green space' defined? I can see where someone will say that there is 5 feet of green space with some kind of strange definition....

Is there green space on the other side of the sidewalk? I can see where they say adding the two together is 5 feet....

Is there room to actually get the 5 feet in the space that is there?

One final thought... they might just imminent domain the space and then the agreement is moot... it might cost them a bit of money but probably not as they technically own it now.... and I think that your remedy might only be monetary anyhow... not sure you can force them to fix it...

Good luck...

 

[Sunset]

Curious, why do you think you have to clear the sidewalk of snow ?

Chicago is famous for this, getting 88 yr old widows out to shovel the sidewalk in front of their house, because their hubby died from a heart attack doing in previous years. So folks in surrounding cities assume they have to do it as well, but its not true.

Up in Ottawa Canada, they city is responsible for cleaning the sidewalks just like they clean the road, and they get a lot of snow.

 

[Sunset]

I can see if the city tries to assuage your concern about snow removal by promising to do it, that you again face disappointment as the city has already shown, it ignores agreements, or is so unorganized that depts don't talk and just do their own thing.

 

[Walt34]

Despite your reluctance to hire a lawyer, that's exactly what you need to do. More likely than not a letter on stationery from a law firm will be all that it takes. The letter will tell the recipient that "I'm serious about this, and I'm not going to just go away".

 

[euro]

1 - do you have this all in writing, with diagrams, where it's very clear what should have happened? (and take a lot of pics of what is now there for your case).

2 - you need a lawyer.

I agree, you need a lawyer. You may not WANT to hire a lawyer, but you will almost certainly get nowhere without one.Any way, now that the project is built, what do you want them to do? Tear down the entire sidewalk? They won;t do that. They also probably can't just create more land, so about all they will likely be able to do is somehow compensate you financially. If there is an amount of money that will satisfy you, pitch that and see if they play ball. Again, almost certainly a lawyer will be needed to convince them.

 

[Scrapr]

I'd try a City council member/mayor before going the lawyer route. "I really don't want to get the lawyers involved"

 

[CardsFan]

I'd try a City council member/mayor before going the lawyer route. "I really don't want to get the lawyers involved"

Good advice. Politicians, of any variety, like to make things like this go away. But if the city really did blow it as described, I am not sure anyone would admit it.

 

[Al18]

Seems the remedy would be to get the city to shovel the sidewalk.

 

[retire to nature]

I'd try a City council member/mayor before going the lawyer route. "I really don't want to get the lawyers involved"

after my problem with the city, it was not matter to have a lawyer or not. OP case is a bit more clear possiblity getting something from hiring. And if OP doesnt want to bother much thinking not hiring a lawyer.
Wwhat I found the city system or manner, they dont care or afraid to be sued either because they made all system for their convienience. That's why the public worker said it would be ok during OP's questioning in the process.
Government officer is a job too, but no access to complain even though we were all prone to be complained by customers at work.
I had to research deep and finally got some place to complain but they are more likely just gestures. Government workers were just saying things nicely to flea from that moments but no need to be responsibilty required. They will get some nagging but will keep the job anyway.
I hope OP get the problem solved in his need, but not much positive.

 

[frank]

I just want the city to take responsibility for snow removal on the 350 feet of sidewalk as they promised because it will take much larger equipment that what I have to do the job. As I witnessed last winter the snow in the area of the intersection will be beyond my capacity to remove it or clear it.

 

[retire to nature]

I just want the city to take responsibility for snow removal on the 350 feet of sidewalk as they promised because it will take much larger equipment that what I have to do the job. As I witnessed last winter the snow in the area of the intersection will be beyond my capacity to remove it or clear it.

If I were you, I would ask the city to install the heat line under the paved area connected the street light or any city paid utility line. you can turn on the swtich if needed. that shouldnt be too expensive, so they may do.

 

[pb4uski]

I spoke with the head of the department of public works many times before and during the construction, and he said I would have the 5 feet of green space. what I am try to do is to get them to do the snow removal on the sidewalk as they agreed. They have 3 lanes of traffic that will be pushing half of that snow onto my sidewalk, I do not have the equipment for the snow removal and do not want to purchase or maintain the type of equipment I would need. think compact tractor with endloader. I would be willing to do the snow removal as long as my snowblower could handle it but after that I am lost. last year they pushed the snow into the area where they put the sidewalk this spring and some had pile of snow 6 ft. high. I think if it comes to it I would consult an attorney, but I am trying to get this settled amicably.

What the head of the department of public works said doesn't matter. What matters is what they agreed to or otherwise indicated in writing. Did they agree in writing to do the snow removal for the sidewalk? If so, then dont sweat it... they are on the hook to do it. If they don't then it isn't your problem.

You might write a letter to the head of public works reminding him that under your written agreement that the city agreed to clear that sidewalk and that you will not be doing it because they are responsible... then copy the mayor or city manager, your local city government representative and any others who shoud know. Include a copy of the relevant page of the agreement with the wording spelling out their obligation highlighted.

Beyond that, there isn't much that you can do until they fail to live up to what they agreed to.

 

[pb4uski]

Curious, why do you think you have to clear the sidewalk of snow ?

Chicago is famous for this, getting 88 yr old widows out to shovel the sidewalk in front of their house, because their hubby died from a heart attack doing in previous years. So folks in surrounding cities assume they have to do it as well, but its not true.

Up in Ottawa Canada, they city is responsible for cleaning the sidewalks just like they clean the road, and they get a lot of snow.

Property owners are responsible for all maintenance and snow removal on sidewalks existing in front of homes and/or businesses as stated in Dubuque Code of Ordinances.

Sidewalk Maintenance | Dubuque, IA - Official Website

www.cityofdubuque.org

 

[1242Vintage]

Years ago I was one of two engineers working for the Board of a public works agency. Board members (AKA politicians) disliked when a letter about some unresolved issue was submitted by a constituent as “public comment” and the letter and corresponding verbal testimony became part of the agenda and record at a public meeting.

Typically in pre- public meeting briefings with individual Board members, I got the extraordinarily clear direction on issues like this to “make it go away” so it doesn’t surface at the next public Board meeting.

If you don’t get the issue addressed by working nicely, this would be the next logical step.

 

[pb4uski]

I like it. If they don't respond raise it during the public comment section of the next city council meeting and tell them that is what you will do.

 

[Jerry1]

I would try to get a meeting with the mayor. If that doesn’t happen, then, as mentioned, the lead attorney for the city. If you can’t get either of those meetings, or they don’t agree to fix the issue, I’d go see an attorney.

Personally, if I didn’t use the sidewalk, I’d hire an attorney to ensure that it’s perfectly clear that it’s not your responsibility to clear the snow or maintain, in any way, that sidewalk. Also to insure that you have no liability for any personal injury that may happen on that particular piece of land. If they’re unwilling to redo the work, that may be your best option to resolve the matter - make sure it has nothing to do with you in the future.